Overtaking

[NB Alnwick]

We had an embarrassing moment yesterday when following a motor & butty - I was enjoying the sound of the motor's single cylinder Bolinder and, as a result, I had possibly crept up too close behind them giving the impression that I wanted to pass - the motor pulled into the side and the skipper jumped off, stopped the pair with a single rope and waved me past. As I passed, he said "you'll be able to go much faster now" - but, in truth, we didn't want to go any faster and in any event we were planning to tie-up less than a mile down the cut - so they then followed us and passed us when we tied up.

 

Under normal circumstances we would rarely expect to pass other boats on narrow canals - mainly due to our deep draught which is very restricting on the southern part of the Leicester section of the GUC which is where we are now. The incident was very embarrassing but nevertheless, a fine display of boat handling on the part of the skipper of the other boats.

 

[NFA]

We had an embarrassing moment yesterday when following a motor & butty - I was enjoying the sound of the motor's single cylinder Bolinder and, as a result, I had possibly crept up too close behind them giving the impression that I wanted to pass - the motor pulled into the side and the skipper jumped off, stopped the pair with a single rope and waved me past. As I passed, he said "you'll be able to go much faster now" - but, in truth, we didn't want to go any faster and in any event we were planning to tie-up less than a mile down the cut - so they then followed us and passed us when we tied up.

 

Under normal circumstances we would rarely expect to pass other boats on narrow canals - mainly due to our deep draught which is very restricting on the southern part of the Leicester section of the GUC which is where we are now. The incident was very embarrassing but nevertheless, a fine display of boat handling on the part of the skipper of the other boats.

 

 

Ooops! As you say a tad embarrassing.

 

Perhaps there ought to be a new sound signal to say " I don't want to overtake I just really enjoy being close to you"

[pagan witch]

Ooops! As you say a tad embarrassing.

 

Perhaps there ought to be a new sound signal to say " I don't want to overtake I just really enjoy being close to you"

 

If I have a boat closing in on me I tend to give a hand signal that is my best impression of a 'come on past' wave and the best smile I can manage. As we tend to cruise at less than 3 mph we often get caught up by hirers and would rather have them in front of us than chasing us.

[DHutch]

Perhaps there ought to be a new sound signal to say " I don't want to overtake I just really enjoy being close to you"

Yeah deffonatly. No one would think that you where a bit odd for that...

 

 

If I have a boat closing in on me I tend to give a hand signal that is my best impression of a 'come on past' wave and the best smile I can manage.

Yeah i'll do the same.

- I try to make as sure as i can that they want to pass as well, before making a move.

- Then just pull over where evers next suitable, and as you say, bit of a wave and smile!

 

If its not possable to pass them just there i do my best to make progress untill a point where it is possable as well, within reason you tend to make back the steam while going slower for them to pass as well. If thats the limiting factor at the time, which it often is.

 

Somtimes it can be a little imbrassing as well, if we've been struggling for steam and then let someone who only wants to go a little fast than us pass.

- Becuase if it does take a while for them to pass or whatver you often get a good rise in steam presure, allowing you to go faster.

- So then having made the wait for a minute to pass and had them pass, with the tail them for the next hour till they moor for the night!

 

 

 

Daniel

[zenataomm]

I bet it was George & Mary (Royalty Class) we shared the moorings with them over Christmas at Bosworth Field on the Ashby, they said they were seeing the New Year in at Foxton.

 

A treat to see, to hear and witness being expertly handled.

 

zenataomm

[tony collins]

Perhaps there ought to be a new sound signal to say " I don't want to overtake I just really enjoy being close to you"

 

You could try three long blasts, - (My engines are going astern!)

[Yoda]

You could try three long blasts, - (My engines are going astern!)

 

'O' , oh yes! Dah dah dah

[howardang]

You could try three long blasts, - (My engines are going astern!)

Three short blasts!

 

(three long blasts = Man Overboard)

Edited December 31, 2007 by howardang

[NB Alnwick]

I bet it was George & Mary (Royalty Class) we shared the moorings with them over Christmas at Bosworth Field on the Ashby, they said they were seeing the New Year in at Foxton.A treat to see, to hear and witness being expertly handled.zenataomm

 

Yes it was - I will try and post a photograph shortly

 

They passed us again this morning near the end of the Welford Arm - now on their way back from Foxton. We also saw them twice yesterday when we went as far as Foxton and back to North Kilworth.

Edited January 2, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[Supermalc]

One of the worst cases I've heard of happened a couple of years ago. Someone in a cruiser was held up behind a NB that had slowed up to around 2mph. Unable to continue at that speed he asked if he might pass, but the NB then reduced speed even more.

 

Deciding he had no option he started to overtake, only to have the NB turn into him. He squeezed past scraping the side of his boat against the trees and hedges that overhung the bank.

[charles123]

I find it a bit intimidating that a following boat closes up, you have to keep looking back to see where he is. At the weekend there was a boat close behind and eventually I pulled over, he was very polite as we exchanged greetings so no worries but why keep so close up in the first place. Also at the weekend I was behind a boat that I caught up with but then I dropped back about half a mile which is a more sesible distance to be following a boat in my opinion

 

Charles

[carlt]

I find it a bit intimidating that a following boat closes up, you have to keep looking back to see where he is. At the weekend there was a boat close behind and eventually I pulled over, he was very polite as we exchanged greetings so no worries but why keep so close up in the first place. Also at the weekend I was behind a boat that I caught up with but then I dropped back about half a mile which is a more sesible distance to be following a boat in my opinion

 

Charles

There isn't enough canal to maintain a half mile gap between each boat, especially in summer. At 70mph they recommend a 2 second gap. I think, at less than 4mph you may be being a bit paranoid, hoping for half a mile.

[Graham and Jo]

Back in 1973 we hired a boat from the then new Napton Marina. Gordon's pleasure cruisers was the company name. There was something wrong with the rudder and on the tight bend after the winding hole near Napton locks (heading away from the locks) the rudder sheered off! We walked to the boat yard and they bought out a little 26ft boat to tow us back. An engineer stood on the roof and steered with a boat pole. We proceeded slowly towards the marina. A narrowboat came up behind and decided to overtake despite the protests of the engineer with the pole. The owner of the boatyard, steering the tug, hadn't seen the overtaking boat. It all went terribly wrong with all three boats colliding. The air went blue! The wife of the chap steering the overtaking boat came out and joined in giving him a right telling off! Their duaghter was put in charge and they went down below to continue the row. Cheers Graham

[Supermalc]

I find it a bit intimidating that a following boat closes up, you have to keep looking back to see where he is. At the weekend there was a boat close behind and eventually I pulled over, he was very polite as we exchanged greetings so no worries but why keep so close up in the first place. Also at the weekend I was behind a boat that I caught up with but then I dropped back about half a mile which is a more sesible distance to be following a boat in my opinion

 

Charles

 

If a boat is catching you up, or following closely, I really don't see what is wrong by slowing down and pulling into the side.

 

I even do that on the road now sometimes, if someone is following me closely.

[StoneHenge]

I don't especially if I am doing at the speed indicated and the road conditions are good. I just slow down. If I am going to be rear ended, at least I can control the speed of it.

 

I have pulled over for another boat to pass before, esp hire boats as I know there time is precious in terms of what they want to do in their hire period, where as I chose my routes with total leisure in mind, so I don't always go that fast.

[Hairy-Neil]

Deciding he had no option he started to overtake, only to have the NB turn into him. .

 

The narrowboat would not have maliciously turned into him as you imply. The cruiser's propellor will have been taking his water and drawing the narrowboat across with that same water..... That would have been made worse had the narrowboat slowed further as he would then definitely have lost steerage. Its a natural phenomenon..the narrowboat's steerer would have no say or control of it.

 

I've had cruisers try to overtake a loaded motor towing a loaded butty on a 100 foot line. They get past the butty ok as it has no propulsion, so no draw of the water. But then they try to overtake the motor and find it more of a task. However, they then expect the motor steerer to stop to let them past, loudly remonstrating with him as often by this point several hundred yards have passed and the space for the manovre has often disappeared. However, the motor steerer has his hands tied as, yes, the motor boat could go into reverse and stop, but then the butty will continue unchecked as it has no reverse option......

 

The cruiser's steerer had the option to:-

 

1. Be patient

2. Stop and put the kettle on

3. Turn and go the other way

 

Instead he chose to put himself and his boat in a dangerous situation....

 

The world is full of w**kers.

[Pie Eater]

I usually slow down and let boats past - and then catch them up at the next lock!

 

Steve

[Supermalc]

The narrowboat would not have maliciously turned into him as you imply. The cruiser's propellor will have been taking his water and drawing the narrowboat across with that same water..... That would have been made worse had the narrowboat slowed further as he would then definitely have lost steerage. Its a natural phenomenon..the narrowboat's steerer would have no say or control of it.

 

It was on a wide section of the Soar Neil. I wasn't there, but the person in question was in no doubt about the NBs intentions.

 

But once you are alongside, it doesn't matter if you rub along for a bit does it.

 

Btw the cruiser only had a smallish outboard.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Supermalc

[tosher]

If a boat is catching you up, or following closely, I really don't see what is wrong by slowing down and pulling into the side.

 

 

 

I agree entirely, If I am having a "slow" day and another boat catches me up I automatically assume they would like to pass me and pull over accordingly but unfortunately not all boaters see it that way. On several occassions last summer I came up behind boats going very slowly (no problem at all with that) and I approached them reasonably closely and assumed they would take this to mean that I would like to overtake them but not one of them would let me by. I had to follow them for quite some distance going so slowly I could only engage gear for half the time, the other half with no steerage way. I meant to post at the time to ask if there was any recognised way of letting boats in front you know that you would like to overtake them but reading the preceeding posts it would appear not.

[Hairy-Neil]

It was on a wide section of the Soar Neil. I wasn't there, but the person in question was in no doubt about the NBs intentions.

 

We've had this same conversation before Malc.

 

On that occasion IIRC you were there in person and the narrowboat struck you......and on a wide section of the River Trent too......And I also recall it was your opinion that it was the fault of the narrowboat, not the overtaking cruiser on that occasion too.

 

The size of the propellor is not a real issue in the relevant law of physics. The rotating propellor draws water from in front of it and throws it out behind. The void this creates causes water to be drawn in from all directions in front and to the sides. Now if that water being drawn in has a boat floating on it, then that boat will also be drawn towards the propellor.

[Supermalc]

Well Neil, the chap told me that the man on the narrowboat held the tiller as far as he could to the RIGHT. He was passing on the left side of the boat.

 

I entirely agree the boats may come together, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

We've had this same conversation before Malc.

 

On that occasion IIRC you were there in person and the narrowboat struck you......and on a wide section of the River Trent too......And I also recall it was your opinion that it was the fault of the narrowboat, not the overtaking cruiser on that occasion too.

 

The circumstances were very different if you remember. It wasn't the narrowboat that struck me, but the fact a huge bow wave turned me sideways when I was halfway past his bow. On that occasion it was his lack of foresight that caused the incident.

Edited January 3, 2008 by Supermalc

[Hairy-Neil]

It wasn't the narrowboat that struck me, but the fact a huge bow wave turned me sideways when I was halfway past his bow. On that occasion it was his lack of foresight that caused the incident.

 

The same laws of physics were involved.....You both failed to recognise the escape velocity needed to counter the draw of the narrowboat's propellor and river current.

 

Overtaking on water involves some complex fluid dynamics that few understand....

[gralyn]

The size of the propellor is not a real issue in the relevant law of physics. The rotating propellor draws water from in front of it and throws it out behind. The void this creates causes water to be drawn in from all directions in front and to the sides. Now if that water being drawn in has a boat floating on it, then that boat will also be drawn towards the propellor.

 

Having had an outboard powered Fibreglass cruiser for many years I can understand the frustration that the skipper has when stuck behind a slow moving Narrow Boat. So now that I have a Narrow Boat myself and see a cruiser coming up behind I always slow down and invite them past, they invariably have to speed up when passing and even on the relatively narrow and shallow Macclesfield canal I have never experienced the effect you describe i.e the narrow boat being drawn into the cruiser.

[Hairy-Neil]

I always slow down and invite them past,

 

There is a subtle difference.....You are a gentleman, most are not.

 

If you just carry on the same regardless and both propellors are fightihting over the same water the effect will be different. In both the cases I mention, it appears the narrowboats didn't give way at first., and why should they? Cruiser owners wrongly think...little lightweight boat, powerful engine, I can easily zip last there.....and then find its not so easy as they thought......

 

If the the narrowboat were to give way when the cruiser is part way past, or even reverse thrust the outcome would be different as the narrowboat would loose way and therefore steerage, and be at the mercy of the cruiser steerer who now has it on full bore and the bit between his teeth and determination to conquer all.

 

BUT ITS NEVER THEIR FAULT, THEY ALWAYS BLAME THE NARROWBOAT FOR THE COCK- UP THAT ENSUES......

Edited January 3, 2008 by Hairy-Neil

[gralyn]

BUT ITS NEVER THEIR FAULT, THEY ALWAYS BLAME THE NARROWBOAT FOR THE COCK- UP THAT ENSUES......

 

Isn't that what Narrow Boats are for????

 

Two things I have learnt since having a narrow boat

 

1. I can now do SLOW!.

 

2. Its Always my Fault.