can this dream really come true?

[BilgePump]

22 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Advertising? Don't know where you are, but round here properties to let are in such short supply that renters are advertising for somewhere to live, and just letting friends and neighbours know you have a place available leads to potential occupants getting in touch. And the friend-of-a-friend connection means you are less likely to get a bad tenant. Ditch the agent and manage the property yourself. https://www.openrent.co.uk/ provides a much cheaper way of setting up a tenancy, paying only for the services you need. And direct contact with the tenant nips most potential problems in the bud.

The friend of a friend route is how my mates found their tenants. Works well, and like you say, round here now a sign in a window of a decent place would have people biting your hand off. Not a good area but close to the city.

[MtB]

30 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Advertising? Don't know where you are, but round here properties to let are in such short supply that renters are advertising for somewhere to live, and just letting friends and neighbours know you have a place available leads to potential occupants getting in touch. And the friend-of-a-friend connection means you are less likely to get a bad tenant. Ditch the agent and manage the property yourself. https://www.openrent.co.uk/ provides a much cheaper way of setting up a tenancy, paying only for the services you need. And direct contact with the tenant nips most potential problems in the bud.

 

 

This is all good advice, but only if you have some good tradesman contacts already in your contacts file. If not, then careful selection of agent pays off handsomely when the boiler packs up on Xmas eve and you're on the boat 200 miles away with no car. 

 

When I was doing a renovation between tenants I had two people knock on the door to ask if I was renovating in order to rent it out, such is the demand for rented accommodation. 

 

Two people separately knocked to ask, that is. Not a couple.

 

 

[outthere]

so much excellent advice here. we live in the midlands, , there's a huge demand for rental properties, but, i'm just not sure if i would want someone in my house, and what do you do with all the furniture? storage seems very expensive.

 

we have found a boat that we like, it's 60x 10.5, barrus shire engine, tiller steering, bow thruster, hull was made by the sailaway boat co in 2020 and fitted out by lifestyle.completed boat hit the water in 2022.  we've got a price for the lift out for the survey, so, it's negotiation time. 

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, outthere said:

so much excellent advice here. we live in the midlands, , there's a huge demand for rental properties, but, i'm just not sure if i would want someone in my house, and what do you do with all the furniture? storage seems very expensive.

 

we have found a boat that we like, it's 60x 10.5, barrus shire engine, tiller steering, bow thruster, hull was made by the sailaway boat co in 2020 and fitted out by lifestyle.completed boat hit the water in 2022.  we've got a price for the lift out for the survey, so, it's negotiation time. 

 

 

It is becoming increasingly difficult to sell a boat without the correct paperwork (and seemingly getting harder year on year). You may be happy tobuy without the correct paperwork but think about when you come to sell it and no broker will take it on and/or you have to drop the price by 25% to get a private sale.

 

Ideally the 'ships papers' should consist of the :

 

RCD/RCR certificate of compliance

The original Bill of Sale

Evidence that VAT was paid by the 1st owner

The RCD 'Owners Manual' 

 

The Hull should be marked with boats 'Hull number', makers name and date of manufacture.

 

 

It should also have a Location certificate detailing the fact that the boat was in the UK at 11pm on 31st December 2020 when we left the EU.

The Marina we were in sent all moorers a confirmation letter stating that their boat (named 'XYZ' 'Reg number 12345'**) was in their marina at that time.

 

** For the 'jokers' - your boat details were used instead of XYZ and 12345

[missingtheboat]

17 hours ago, Greenpen said:

but over the two years it was only a tiny bit on the profit side of breaking even.

We've been renting out a flat for the past decade and it makes much less sense than it used to when you take into account all the changes in tax rules and the like, particularly over the past few years. I'm not saying that it's not worthing doing at all, but just that most people have this idea that it's much more lucrative than it actually is in reality. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

34 minutes ago, missingtheboat said:

We've been renting out a flat for the past decade and it makes much less sense than it used to when you take into account all the changes in tax rules and the like, particularly over the past few years. I'm not saying that it's not worthing doing at all, but just that most people have this idea that it's much more lucrative than it actually is in reality. 

that’s when you need a chain of them houses,

and don’t forget to charge extortionate rents, you can always spout ‘they’ call it the market rate 👍

 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

that’s when you need a chain of them houses,

and don’t forget to charge extortionate rents, you can always spout ‘they’ call it the market rate 👍

 

 

Never run a business in your life, obviously.

 

You come across like a bitter old retired teacher, or something! 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

making it personal are we?

 

people on the defensive usually do. 
 

 

 

 

I’m sure Thatcher would be proud of you 👍 

 

[Sue68]

Even if you aren't making a profit the value of the property is increasing. We let rooms and kept one for ourselves. This meant we could go back anytime we wanted and gave us somewhere to store anything rather than pay for storage. It worked very well for us.

[missingtheboat]

12 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

and don’t forget to charge extortionate rents, you can always spout ‘they’ call it the market rate 👍

with respect, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. It seems like the only one 'spouting' is you. The 'market rate' is set by the, er, market. In case you're actually interested in knowing more, the rent we've charged has barely budged in the last decade. Costs on the other hand have all risen and changes in the law over the past decade have made it make less and less sense financially to rent out property. When you factor in repairs, upkeep, agents fees and the like.........

 

Knowing what I now know, I wouldn't buy property to rent out these days, whereas it was a 'no branier' if you had money to save in the past. 

 

9 hours ago, Sue68 said:

We let rooms and kept one for ourselves. This meant we could go back anytime we wanted and gave us somewhere to store anything rather than pay for storage. It worked very well for us.

If you are going to keep a property, this is probably the way to do it. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

3 hours ago, missingtheboat said:

with respect, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. It seems like the only one 'spouting' is you. The 'market rate' is set by the, er, market. In case you're actually interested in knowing more, the rent we've charged has barely budged in the last decade. Costs on the other hand have all risen and changes in the law over the past decade have made it make less and less sense financially to rent out property. When you factor in repairs, upkeep, agents fees and the like.........

 

Knowing what I now know, I wouldn't buy property to rent out these days, whereas it was a 'no branier' if you had money to save in the past. 

 

if you’re struggling it’d be a ‘no brainier’ to put the rent up?
 

 

[MtB]

12 hours ago, Sue68 said:

Even if you aren't making a profit the value of the property is increasing. We let rooms and kept one for ourselves. This meant we could go back anytime we wanted and gave us somewhere to store anything rather than pay for storage. It worked very well for us.

 

An excellent idea, even better than renting out the whole house. 

 

You do however, then fall foul of the additional HMO (house of multiple occupation) regulations, I suspect. Mostly fire regulations IIRC. Stuff like self-closing fire doors, fire alarms, fire escapes and double layers of plasterboard. Can be VERY expensive to implement.

 

 

[missingtheboat]

59 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

if you’re struggling it’d be a ‘no brainier’ to put the rent up?

do we need to run through the whole 'market rate' concept again? It's less about 'struggling' and more about whether buying and renting out a property represents as good an investment as it once did. My experience is that it was a decade ago, and is much less so now. Oh, and well done you for spotting a typo. 👍

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I don’t see why people are so defensive about letting their houses out?

Why can’t folk admit to making easy money on the back of others?

 

I rented my house out and it was great having someone else pay my mortgage on a property that increased in value. 
Wasn’t so great for the tenants when I booted them out. 
 

A mate of mine has just paid off his mortgage without ever having paid a penny himself. The tenants paid it. 
Will he reduce the rent to reflect his reduced costs? I doubt it very much. 
 

If tenants were to become some sort of shareholder in the properties they rent it might seem a better balance 🤷‍♀️

[IanD]

21 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I don’t see why people are so defensive about letting their houses out?

Why can’t folk admit to making easy money on the back of others?

 

I rented my house out and it was great having someone else pay my mortgage on a property that increased in value. 
Wasn’t so great for the tenants when I booted them out. 
 

A mate of mine has just paid off his mortgage without ever having paid a penny himself. The tenants paid it. 
Will he reduce the rent to reflect his reduced costs? I doubt it very much. 
 

If tenants were to become some sort of shareholder in the properties they rent it might seem a better balance 🤷‍♀️

At least you're honest about your motivations...

[missingtheboat]

2 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

If tenants were to become some sort of shareholder in the properties they rent it might seem a better balance 🤷‍♀️

 

There are several ways that people can do exactly this if that's what they want, not that it's always easy of course. There are also a lot of people who are suited for one reason or another to a very straightforward private tenancy arrangement. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say I'm being defensive - although I'm not particularly interested either if I'm being completely honest. The point of the post was to reflect on the fact that renting out property is very different (from a financial perspective) to how it was in the past, and might not be the best way to invest capital for some people, that's all. Your half-baked, pseudo-moral objections to the whole practice add nothing useful to the discussion. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

49 minutes ago, missingtheboat said:

 

There are several ways that people can do exactly this if that's what they want, not that it's always easy of course. There are also a lot of people who are suited for one reason or another to a very straightforward private tenancy arrangement. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say I'm being defensive - although I'm not particularly interested either if I'm being completely honest. The point of the post was to reflect on the fact that renting out property is very different (from a financial perspective) to how it was in the past, and might not be the best way to invest capital for some people, that's all. Your half-baked, pseudo-moral objections to the whole practice add nothing useful to the discussion. 

well that sounds pretty defensive to me,

.. but I’m not particularly interested either

[missingtheboat]

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

well that sounds pretty defensive to me,

does it? really? 

 

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

.. but I’m not particularly interested either

....and at last we find some common ground. 😊

[Grassman]

23 hours ago, outthere said:

so much excellent advice here. we live in the midlands, , there's a huge demand for rental properties, but, i'm just not sure if i would want someone in my house, and what do you do with all the furniture? storage seems very expensive.

 

 

 

We let our house out unfurnished. Some of your smaller furniture and items you could perhaps store in your loft. It's down to what agreement you strike up with your tenants, either directly or through a letting agent. When we used a letting agent (I don't use one now) they told me that you're only obliged to give your tenant enough room in the loft for a few suitcases and some Xmas decorations.  I also have an agreement with my tenant that I have the whole of the loft of the garage which takes care of smaller items and I have a garage door key.

 

With larger furniture because we planned the move to life afloat well in advance we hadn't been replacing things like the 3 piece suite, dining table, beds and large appliances when we would normally have done, so when it came to moving out they weren't worth much anyway so they went to the local tip, charity organisations, or were sold on Ebay. It means if every we move back into a house we'd have to buy all that kind of stuff, but we've had no storage costs for the 11 years we've lived aboard.

 

Having somebody living in our house (that we had lived in for 35 years) didn't bother us, but I can understand why some don't like the thought. I suppose the key to it all is being able to get good tenants and then looking after them if they are worthy of it, but there is the risk of getting bad ones of course, and we've all heard the horror stories when this happens.

 

Everybody's circumstances are different but thankfully ours has worked out, and us buying a 2nd hand oldish boat rather than brand new or newer shiny one, and having decent tenants in the house enabled us to retire a little earlier than we would have done and enabled us to have enjoyed 11+ years so far, cruising all over the country the same as we would have done in a boat 4 times the purchase price we paid for ours.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Grassman said:

enabled us to have enjoyed 11+ years so far, cruising all over the country the same as we would have done in a boat 4 times the purchase price we paid for ours.

 

 

Something I occasionally point out to any boater expressing any concern their boat might not be posh, shiny or fashionable enough, is the canals look every bit as pretty and are just as enjoyable from the helm of a bargain 1976 Springer as from a £250k new-build.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sue68]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

An excellent idea, even better than renting out the whole house. 

 

You do however, then fall foul of the additional HMO (house of multiple occupation) regulations, I suspect. Mostly fire regulations IIRC. Stuff like self-closing fire doors, fire alarms, fire escapes and double layers of plasterboard. Can be VERY expensive to implement.

 

 

This was why we were glad, due to a change of circumstances, to sell up. We were getting more and more illegal.

[BilgePump]

12 hours ago, Sue68 said:

This was why we were glad, due to a change of circumstances, to sell up. We were getting more and more illegal.

I thought that it was possible to have a max of two lodgers in your home without needing to go down the HMO route, so it still might be suitable for someone looking to spend the bulk of time as a liveaboard but keeping the advantages of a property. I did that when spending a lot of time working and renting a flat abroad. Meant that bills got covered and didn't need the family member owner of the house to keep coming round to check the property was okay. 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, BilgePump said:

I thought that it was possible to have a max of two lodgers in your home without needing to go down the HMO route, so it still might be suitable for someone looking to spend the bulk of time as a liveaboard but keeping the advantages of a property. I did that when spending a lot of time working and renting a flat abroad. Meant that bills got covered and didn't need the family member owner of the house to keep coming round to check the property was okay. 

 

I'm no expert but I think you have to be in residence yourself for them to be "lodgers" as opposed to tenants in an HMO. But its a grey area if you live on the boat but still retain a bedroom in the house for your own use. 

 

I think a court is likely to rule it is a HMO if you don't ever sleep there or spend any time there beyond picking up mail and attending to maintenance. The "If it walks like a duck..." principle might well be applied.

 

It reminds me of the "What's the minimum I have to travel between all my 14 day stops when I'm continuously cruising?" question though!

 

 

 

Edited May 28 by MtB
Finesse it

[BilgePump]

25 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'm no expert but I think you have to be in residence yourself for them to be "lodgers" as opposed to tenants in an HMO. But its a grey area if you live on the boat but still retain a bedroom in the house for your own use. 

 

I think a court is likely to rule it is a HMO if you don't ever sleep there or spend any time there beyond picking up mail and attending to maintenance. The "If it walks like a duck..." principle might well be applied.

 

It reminds me of the "What's the minimum I have to travel between all my 14 day stops when I'm continuously cruising?" question though!

 

 

 

In my situation, it was still genuinely my home when in the UK. I kept the smallest bedroom and let out the two bigger ones. Agree with the 'if it walks like a duck' principle may be applied and imagine that you couldn't just let out two bedrooms in a two bed house whilst claiming it to be home.

[cuthound]

On 25/05/2024 at 17:51, Machpoint005 said:

 

I'm 69 and I'm middle aged -- nearly.

 

 

 

I turned 70 this year and in my head I've only just come out of my teens...