Too many quangos

[Kh1]

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/canal-and-river-trust-appoints-arcadis-rsk-stantec-and-more-as-technical-experts-28-03-2024/

 

Is it just me or does this sound like the typical ‘ let’s spend all the money on quangos and hold meetings ad infinitum’ codswallop? Surely it’s not necessary to appoint so many private companies to consult on the network? 

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Kh1 said:

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/canal-and-river-trust-appoints-arcadis-rsk-stantec-and-more-as-technical-experts-28-03-2024/

 

Is it just me or does this sound like the typical ‘ let’s spend all the money on quangos and hold meetings ad infinitum’ codswallop? Surely it’s not necessary to appoint so many private companies to consult on the network? 

Firstly, none of these is a quango. And secondly its called outsourcing - having a number of specialist companies available on an as-and-when-required basis to advise on a while range of matters. Every organisation does it. Nothing to see here.

[MtB]

QUANGO = quasi-autonomous national government organisation, IIRC.

 

 

[Machpoint005]

I think the term the OP was groping for might be consultant.

 

It's arguable whether CRT should have the expertise in-house, but the fact is, they almost certainly do not.

 

[cuthound]

One of the things that one of the consultants have been asked to do is establish the condition of the network.and the likely impact of climate change and changing water table levels.

 

This can only be a good thing as the CRT will know the scale of the cost of keeping the canals open, and this be in a better position to persuade any future government to contribute more.

Edited March 30, 2024 by cuthound
Is not us

[David Mack]

Also worth adding that this is nothing new. As the linked article explains, CRT has simply retendered a series of framework contracts, which will run for up to 8 years, the previous contracts time being up. The only significant difference is that this time they have appointed a number of firms to the framework rather than a large single source option, so overall a wider range of skills and resources to call on and avoids an eggs-in-one-basket situation, but does put more of an onus on CRT to coordinate the different inputs effectively.

[Stilllearning]

45 minutes ago, MtB said:

QUANGO = quasi-autonomous national government organisation, IIRC.

 

 

Non governmental

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

Non governmental

 

You're right! 

 

I thought it looked a bit wrong, hence my "IIRC".

 

QUANGO = quasi-autonomous non-governmental organisation. 

 

That's better.

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2024 by MtB
Fiddle with it

[Iain_S]

3 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

I think the term the OP was groping for might be consultant.

 

It's arguable whether CRT should have the expertise in-house, but the fact is, they almost certainly do not any more.

 

FTFY

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Iain_S said:

FTFY

 

I'd suggest CRT never did, having only been in existence since 2012 (was it?). 

 

BW before them probably did, however. 

[Ewan123]

12 hours ago, Kh1 said:

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/canal-and-river-trust-appoints-arcadis-rsk-stantec-and-more-as-technical-experts-28-03-2024/

 

Is it just me or does this sound like the typical ‘ let’s spend all the money on quangos and hold meetings ad infinitum’ codswallop? Surely it’s not necessary to appoint so many private companies to consult on the network? 

 

I hope this helps understanding: the article refers to framework contracts. This basically means that CRT has picked out a group of consultancies that it can offer work to as and when it needs to. This isn't CRT committing to paying the consultancies on a long term contract, it's CRT saying "When we need something doing, we can go to one of these selected ones." They've established that these consultancies can offer what they need, at an agreed rate of cost - rather than having to go through an expensive and time-consuming tender/bidding process for each individual project. This should save CRT money.

[Machpoint005]

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a consultancy model. It's cheaper to use a call-off contract than to employ specialists to sit on their arses for (say) 40 weeks a year.

 

 

[Peanut]

My brother, who was in the Civil Service, and was involved in this stuff, told me how it works.  No one decides anything without involving a consultant, even though they know what to do.  If it goes wrong, you have followed the advice given, and all is well, but if you made the decision, then that's your promotion gone. No one is going to put their career at risk for the sake of a little bit of public money, after all, we did follow the best advice.

[Jonny P]

1 hour ago, Peanut said:

My brother, who was in the Civil Service, and was involved in this stuff, told me how it works.  No one decides anything without involving a consultant, even though they know what to do.  If it goes wrong, you have followed the advice given, and all is well, but if you made the decision, then that's your promotion gone. No one is going to put their career at risk for the sake of a little bit of public money, after all, we did follow the best advice.

I can’t speak for the Civil Service but that’s not how it works for an organisation like CRT at all. You can’t delegate accountability.

[Peanut]

5 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I can’t speak for the Civil Service but that’s not how it works for an organisation like CRT at all. You can’t delegate accountability.

Yes, I would believe that to be true, I expect a charity would have greater integrity. It was not intended to be a slur on the CRT.

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I can’t speak for the Civil Service but that’s not how it works for an organisation like CRT at all. You can’t delegate accountability.

 

You certainly couldn't delegate responsibility when I was working.

[Ken X]

Indeed. Though a few have tried and had to explain to the person with the curly wig what they were thinking.  Didn't end well in one case I had personal experience of.

[Ewan123]

Also just for the sake of discussion, I'd argue CRT itself is probably closer to the definition of QUANGO than the consultancies, no?

[Jonny P]

10 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

Also just for the sake of discussion, I'd argue CRT itself is probably closer to the definition of QUANGO than the consultancies, no?

CRT is a quango. The consultancies are pretty much the polar opposite.

Edited March 31, 2024 by Captain Pegg

[Machpoint005]

I thought CRT was a third-sector charity?