My first narrowboat for continuous cruising What to buy?

[Tantarin]

Hello all

I've been lurking in this forum for a while & watching many Youtube videos of continuous cruisers; I've decided that this is something I really want to do now that I've just retired and so I'll be looking for a boat. I'm  aware that my first boat won't be the boat I'll end up wanting & so I need to consider it as the boat that will introduce me to the life & will do me fine for a couple of years while I get to understand what I really want. These  are my initial ideas:

• I'll be living aboard alone & continuously cruising from April to end October; for the winter I'll leave it somewhere fairly cheap & perhaps out of the water if that's practical.
• After 2 years I want to be able to sell it on fairly easily & without losing much on my buy price so I can go for my next boat.
• I can't afford to pay more than £60k
• I don't want to have to do much work on the boat to make it suitable to liveaboard; I'm fine with doing maintenance & running repairs & upgrades

I'd really appreciate any guidance you experienced boaters could give me on what kind of boat might fit the bill here. I'm assuming that it will be 53-55 foot but I don't know at all what style, what features & what accessories or equipment would be needed to make it readily re-sellable later.

 

[dmr]

Another option is to do loads of research, work out exactly what you need and want, and buy your "last boat first" and so avoid all the hassle of constant boat changes....unless you feel that owning a series of boats is what you want to do.

[robtheplod]

For £60k you'll be able to get a nice boat - your 'forever' one unless you want to change, but as its risky buying boats you might want to reconsider if you like it!  Welcome by the way!!

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

Another option is to do loads of research, work out exactly what you need and want, and buy your "last boat first" and so avoid all the hassle of constant boat changes....unless you feel that owning a series of boats is what you want to do.

 

And a way to short-cut the extended research stage for the OP is to choose a boat with a washing machine already installed. Any such boat is highly likely to have been a liveaboard so is likely to be set up for CCing in other ways too. 

 

Leisure cruisy boats rarely have washing machines.

 

 

[dmr]

28 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

And a way to short-cut the extended research stage for the OP is to choose a boat with a washing machine already installed. Any such boat is highly likely to have been a liveaboard so is likely to be set up for CCing in other ways too. 

 

Leisure cruisy boats rarely have washing machines.

 

 

 

We got it 90% right, but buying a boat that had been commissioned and fitted out by existing liveaboards did probably help. We did briefly consider getting rid of the washing machine as it took up so much space, but luckily decided to keep it 😀

 

A big water tank is very desirable, and my own opinion, against forum wisdom, is that an engine in an engine room is essential.

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, dmr said:

A big water tank is very desirable, and my own opinion, against forum wisdom, is that an engine in an engine room is essential.

 

I wholly agree with this. An engine room is no more a 'waste of space' than a washing machine on a liveaboard.

 

It's mainly people who pay others to do their engine maintenance and repairs who see an engine room as a waste of space and money, I suspect!

 

The ability to fix a busted alternator or do a timely oil and filter change in the warm when its dark and slashing with rain outside is probably appreciated by nearly all engine room boat owners  

[Stroudwater1]

1 hour ago, Tantarin said:

Hello all

I've been lurking in this forum for a while & watching many Youtube videos of continuous cruisers; I've decided that this is something I really want to do now that I've just retired and so I'll be looking for a boat. I'm  aware that my first boat won't be the boat I'll end up wanting & so I need to consider it as the boat that will introduce me to the life & will do me fine for a couple of years while I get to understand what I really want. These  are my initial ideas:

• I'll be living aboard alone & continuously cruising from April to end October; for the winter I'll leave it somewhere fairly cheap & perhaps out of the water if that's practical.
• After 2 years I want to be able to sell it on fairly easily & without losing much on my buy price so I can go for my next boat.
• I can't afford to pay more than £60k
• I don't want to have to do much work on the boat to make it suitable to liveaboard; I'm fine with doing maintenance & running repairs & upgrades

I'd really appreciate any guidance you experienced boaters could give me on what kind of boat might fit the bill here. I'm assuming that it will be 53-55 foot but I don't know at all what style, what features & what accessories or equipment would be needed to make it readily re-sellable later.

 

 

I really would suggest that you hire a boat and see if you really do like it, though thats difficult as a singlehander with many of the larger hire firms. That can help to focus what you do or dont like or want.

 

Its really down to personal preference, from what stern style right through. Its hard for anyone to guide you. Best is to look at boats for sale, chat to folk on the towpath about what works for them. Some will be friendly and some wont be, dont let that put you off.

 

A fixed bed is probably a must, and theres usually loads of storage space underneath. Its such a faff putting up a bed each night, the novelty of drop down beds can quickly wear off. Boats seem to sell less easily without. However a fixed bed and an engine room isnt too common, but would sometimes be in your price range. 

 

Continuously cruising is hard work singlehanding, especially if you are new to canal life. 

[Bacchus]

I don't live aboard (and I have a steel cruiser rather than a narrowboat) so my opinion may be of limited value, but from what the OP says, he (she?) won't be living aboard either; it's an extended holiday boat so some of the full live-aboard "must-haves" may not apply? They don't say whether they will be retaining a land-dwelling somewhere, but by suggesting that the boat could go on the hard for the winter, I would assume that to be the case, so they won't need space for the entire toolkit and family heirlooms, and a smaller boat might be easier to start with? Also could probably get away with something like a diesel-powered central heating if not living aboard during winter - can be set on a timer for ease of use during cold spring/autumn mornings but doesn't necessarily need to mitigate prolonged snowy weather. Also bigger windows to take in the views without worrying about winter heat-loss

 

Making up a bed for six months might be a pain, and big tankage would help. I was looking at narrow-boats before buying the current cruiser, and from what I saw cruiser sterns seem to sell more readily.

 

I would say buy a cheapish boat with a good hull and engine, cruise it for a couple of seasons and take it from there. A well-priced 48-50' cruiser stern is usually going to find a buyer quite readily when the OP has a better idea of what they want and decides to move on.

[magnetman]

I'd go for 40ft to 50ft if its a summer boat and as suggested there is also a house. 

 

Easier to handle as lighter weight and easier to find moorings or hardstanding for winter. 

 

Although for me a fire is essential that is due to living on the boat all the time but if it was just for summer I agree that diesel central heating would be adequate and a lot of boating means hot water from calorifier. 

 

I significantly prefer traditional starn but everyone is different. 

 

In fact if I was doing exactly this I think I might consider as small as 35ft. A very well designed 35ft traditional narrow boat is going to a nice easy boat to do a lot of boating in. 

 

Depends on your attitude to small spaces. 

 

Narrow boats are narrow. I lived on them for 13 yars and don't want to again but of course you have to have a narrow boat to do narrow canals. 

 

Obviously! 

 

 

 

[booke23]

As it's just you alone on the boat, I'd say something around the 40ft mark is a good size as it makes mooring/handling easier single handed and keeps the costs down slightly......35ft would be great if you can find one with a fixed bed but a lot that size don't have fixed beds and I definitely wouldn't recommend that. 

 

They always say that your first boat is the one where you learn what you actually want in a boat, so it's good you have recognised this, although if you haven't already I'd recommend you hire a boat for a week or two to see what you think of it as Youtube videos present an overly idyllic representation of life on board.....don't get me wrong, canal boating is great but you should try before you buy.    

 

 

[magnetman]

You could do a lot worse than hire a UCC Barney boat.

 

I personally think these are some of the best small narrow boats on the canal. They're really good.

 

If the aim is to get around then a smaller boat is definitely easier. When I was cc ing all the time I had a 55ft nb but also I was between 20 and 30 yars old which helps in terms of fitness.

 

These days I'd definitely go smaller than that just because of the weight of the boat.

 

Having said that my mum had a 55ft as well and she did it from age 50 to 60 so its not a huge deal.

 

55ft is a heavy lump of metal though.

 

Although obviously older and trouble the best narrow boat I have ever steered (apart from my 72ft ex horse boat) was a 35ft Barney boat with a wooden cabin. It was the 'ideal narrow boat' because having the wood top it didn't rock about too much.

 

It went like a rocket with a tiny little single cylinder SABB marine engine.

 

Really good that was. Not my boat but I did like it.

 

I've had 30ft, 40ft, 55ft and 72ft narrow boats. On balance the 40ft was the most ideal size for one person.

 

 

 

 

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, dmr said:

Another option is to do loads of research, work out exactly what you need and want, and buy your "last boat first" and so avoid all the hassle of constant boat changes....unless you feel that owning a series of boats is what you want to do.

I tend to agree, most critical items are covered by purchasing a suitable boat and then tweaking it as you go along.

For summer cruising one or two solar panels should keep a small fridge happy in summer and trickle the "dormant" batteries in winter.

It's not going to be much cheaper  to haul out and store onshore than keeping the boat in the water, where it is available for a bit of cruising. The main advantage being that you can do a bit of hull blacking.

Depending on location and other considerations, a shorter boat can have the advantage of being cheaper to purchase,  licence and can turn round in more locations. 

As a liveaboard I like having the sleeping area separate from the day area, but I think a well designed trad about 45ft might work, or even a 52footer. It all depends on what you like, and when you see a boat you like, then go for it. Its a lot easier to buy your first boat than to sell it, remember that!

PS unless you are into vintage engines and like the idea of polishing the brasswork etc, have a proper workhorse diesel engine tucked out of the way. If you need a new alternator on a regular basis, there is something very wrong!

PPS on the rare occasion I have changed the oil and filter on my boat I do it during the day, and it's undercover. I don't have anywhere to dispose of the oil, so I often pay to have it done, unlike those idiots who leave waste oil at the services, along with their old fridges.

Edited November 21, 2023 by LadyG

[magnetman]

I agree with the small well packaged engine. A big thumper is nice (I had a RN DM2 on my 55 footer) but it can wear you down over time if you are doing significant hours. I often used to rather envy those sensible people who had boxed in quiet 1.5 litre Kubotas or similar because they were not constantly assaulted by noise while boating.

 

Obviously some people really like it but on balance if I were to do it again I would have the Beta marine in a soundproofed engine bay or an electric but obviously electric narrow boats are not very practical and tend to be either very expensive or DIY.

 

 

 

 

Another thing is although it has been stated that there will be one person on the boat its worth asking oneself if the intention is be like Rabbit from Whinnie the Pooh and have lots of friends and relations.

 

If so then a cruiser starn is desirable. If not and you are a solitary type then a trad is the thing to have and preferably one with a solid deck rather than a lifting hatch in the deck.

 

For someone who may not be all that happy about limited space I think on balance a 45ft or maybe 50ft trad is the way to go.

 

If you have experience of small spaces and are drawn to it then there are no limits after all the boat families lived in back cabins.

 

 

[LadyG]

With respect to laundry. In summer I still use a launderette because I don't have one of those twirly washing lines outside, and I do not want wet T shirts or bedding etc hanging inside.

OP will likely need to visit his house every three months (check insurance Ts&Cs), so he can do some major washing at that time.

[magnetman]

Yes I think that unless the boat is lived on 365 and fitted to a high state of luxury including good batteries and charge management systems then washing machines are in danger of falling into the Red Herring category in a lot of circumstances.

 

Plus of course if one is alone of the boat it can become less significant...

 

 

 

 

[booke23]

56 minutes ago, LadyG said:

OP will likely need to visit his house every three months (check insurance Ts&Cs), so he can do some major washing at that time.

 

So he just needs 90 pairs of socks and pants and a very dirty large laundry bin!

[magnetman]

Socks can last more than a day.

 

Also they are cheap in supermarkets.

 

 

Given the planet destroying nature of washing machines and forced drying apparatus and the cost of launderettes there is a reasonable argument for viewing underwear as consumable products.

 

 

[LadyG]

36 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Socks can last more than a day.

 

Also they are cheap in supermarkets.

 

 

Given the planet destroying nature of washing machines and forced drying apparatus and the cost of launderettes there is a reasonable argument for viewing underwear as consumables

I suspect you don't buy your own undies!

They can be hand washed, rinsed, dry overnight, probably saving a few kwh per annum.

I find the launderette machines really clean your clothes, but anything fragile , padded, or expensive won't last the course.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by LadyG

[magnetman]

I do buy my own actually.

 

I also wash my own. Nobody else ever does any washing for me.

 

 

 

I do hand washing in the sink with warm water and bio washing powder.

 

 

I was put orf launderettes many yars ago when I observed someone washing dog beds

 

 

[Tony1]

 

Since you can manage with diesel CH until the end of Oct, you don't really need a SF stove- although if we have a chilly October I bet it would be a nice thing to have available.

In my view, a washing machine is desirable but not an essential priority, and especially not on a smaller boat. You can handwash smaller things in a bowl, and make occasional visits to nearby launderettes for bigger things like bedding.

An awful lot of the suggestions will be down to individual taste or perspective- e.g. those people saying an engine room is essential probably have longer boats in mind. But if your boat is 45ft or less I am guessing that storage space will be a higher priority for you than easier access to do engine maintenance.

I would definitely consider a boat of 45ft or less if I had a house available to store tools, clothes, and other paraphernalia. You can moor in smaller spaces, and you'll pay a fair bit less for license and mooring charges with a smaller boat. 

One option I would give some thought to is that of a GRP ('glass fibre') boat. 

Often they are more spacious than you might think. E.g. the viking 32cc is only 32ft long but has almost as much interior space as a 45ft narrowboat (which includes a centre cockpit area that would be great for Spring/Summer use).   

With GRP you dont have to worry about a rusting hull (although GRP can be damaged by impacts from other boats, and I've been bumped into 3 times this year alone), and there's a good chance you won't lose much money if/when you decide to sell it on and get a narrowboat. Also you dont have to pay £800+ or more every two years to have it hauled out and blacked. 

You can probably turn the boat around in far more places, without having to travel a few miles to a winding hole. 

The unexpected scary bills won't be quite as big as they often are with a full size narrowboat, and if the engine ever dies you can just buy a new outboard engine for a few grand and stick that on the back- whereas replacing the engine on a narrowboat can be £8k-10k or even more. 

I've never had a GRP, but if my circumstances changed to suit, I would give it really serious thought.

As long as its reasonably spacious, warm, and comfortable, I don't care. 

 

Here's an example of their smaller model, the 26cc. I bet you could cruise April to Oct in one of these no problem. 

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/motor-boats-aft-cabin-for-sale/747323

 

ETA- I must add that some improvements would still be needed for a boat like this- e.g. upgrade the water tanks from the ridiculously small 30 litres that it has at the moment. 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Tony1

[magnetman]

It is quite difficult to avoid damaging GRP boats (aka splitters) on canals. You need to do a lot of fender work. I've had a couple of GRP cruisers on the Thames and as I don't like leaving fenders down I always brought them up after locks. It is a nuisance and given the number of locks on canals I would not advocate a GRP boat myself. It just isn't durable enough. Well it is durable enough but will rapidly get scratched and as most gelcoats are white or another light colour it will really show.

 

A steel hull with black paint on it is a remarkably sensible approach.

 

I also think outboards are not ideal on canals due to the awkwardness of getting petrol compared to diesel, the theft risk and also they have small propellers so will be more prone to fouling.

 

It not unmanageable but I reckon if you want to do a lot of cruising around canals you want a steel narrow boat with an inboard diesel engine. for durability.

 

 

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It is quite difficult to avoid damaging GRP boats (aka splitters) on canals. You need to do a lot of fender work. I've had a couple of GRP cruisers on the Thames and as I don't like leaving fenders down I always brought them up after locks. It is a nuisance and given the number of locks on canals I would not advocate a GRP boat myself. It just isn't durable enough. Well it is durable enough but will rapidly get scratched and as most gelcoats are white or another light colour it will really show.

 

A steel hull with black paint on it is a remarkably sensible approach.

 

I also think outboards are not ideal on canals due to the awkwardness of getting petrol compared to diesel, the theft risk and also they have small propellers so will be more prone to fouling.

 

It not unmanageable but I reckon if you want to do a lot of cruising around canals you want a steel narrow boat with an inboard diesel engine. for durability.

 

 

 

I can't deny that the risk of damage to a GRP from narrowboats etc is something that would concern me, which is why I mentioned I've been hit three times this year alone- although to be fair, all three impacts were in the same spot within a week, when moored very close to a blind bend, so I was asking for trouble there really.

 

And you are quite right to point out the extra hassle of obtaining petrol supplies, as most Marinas dont sell petrol, so you'd have to fetch fuel from nearby garages.

That said, some of these Vikings do have inboard diesels, and you can buy diesel outboards too, so there is a way round the fuel problem- but it might come at a very high price (a yanmar D27 diesel outboard is over £10k new).

 

All that said, you do see lots and lots of GRPs surviving on the canals, so people can make it work. 

 

 

[StevieN]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

Yes I think that unless the boat is lived on 365 and fitted to a high state of luxury including good batteries and charge management systems then washing machines are in danger of falling into the Red Herring category in a lot of circumstances.

 

Plus of course if one is alone of the boat it can become less significant...

 

 

 

 

I see those old style 'twin tubs' seem to be popular rather than a huge power hungry and space hogging washing machine and if there's only one person on board probably a handy thing to have.

[manxmike]

I've owned steel hull and fibreglass. Admitedly the fibreglass never actually made it onto the canal, it was in a Marina where I was "doing it up" which actually meant ripping out the interior and totally refitting everything.

As I lived several hundred miles (and a four hour ferry trip) away it rapidly became apparent that the whole idea would take years and thousands to complete.

Anyway - I don't think a washing machine is a requirement, a separate engine room is an unecessary luxury and would add several feet to the size of boat required. 40 to 50 feet would be more than adequate for a single person. I would say, however, that a solid fuel stove would be a real bonus. There are days in spring and autumn (never mind "summer") when a real fire is very welcome and heats the whole boat even without a back boiler and radiators, one of those self powered fans actually help to spread the heat surprisingly well.

Go for something fairly cheap at first, you're less likely to lose a vast amount on re-sale later and it will have the added benefit of deciding if that's the life for you without blowing your budget.

Good luck!

[StevieN]

5 hours ago, booke23 said:

 

They always say that your first boat is the one where you learn what you actually want in a boat, so it's good you have recognised this, although if you haven't already I'd recommend you hire a boat for a week or two to see what you think of it as Youtube videos present an overly idyllic representation of life on board.....don't get me wrong, canal boating is great but you should try before you buy.    

 

 

Great advice!

We've been hiring for years so have a good understanding of what it's like at various times of the year.

 

The other thing that can't be over emphasised (and I'm sure backed up by the massed knowledge on here) is to get a survey done before you buy.

I saw a video on YouTube recently where a young couple had spent money doing up the interior only to eventually have the boat taken out of the water to be blacked and have a survey done.

Surveyor found holes below the waterline!

Some extra costs that could have been negotiated against when purchased.