Boat Safety Survey coming up...

[Momac]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

They are making you install one to save you from other boaters emissions, not your own !

I don't think that is fully correct but you could receive CO from the exhaust of eg a petrol generator or petrol boat engine running nearby

But an alarm sounding could warn a rescuer not to enter the boat without letting enough air in to stop the alarm.

 

 

The BSS have the following advice

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe-advice/carbon-monoxide-co/

 

 

 

[Theo]

18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Good as in he is thorough and ensures everything is safe and compliant?, or

 

Good as in he sits in the cabin has a cup of tea and some choccy biscuits and writes out the 'pass' certificate without looking at the boat?

Tempting just to say the former.  Certainly not the latter.  The former but leavened with common sense would be good.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Theo

[Sea Dog]

17 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Indeed, but does it?

 

The only 'control' experiment we have is to compare accidents in tested craft with those which are not tested.

 

 

 

 

Do they need a control experiment? Clearly a boat with (insert name of realistic BSS failure here) is less safe than one without the hazard. There are plenty of hazards identified in BSS checks which would otherwise have continued unchecked.

(I'm not suggesting that all BSS passes or failures are infallibly correct)

 

21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Sorry but that is incorrect.

 

There was a big write up on the BSS website after the consultation and before the implementation explaing that the BSS cannot implement safety proceedures that only affect the boat owners' safety. They explained in great detail their justification for implememting the CO alarms.

 

In summary :

You need to have a CO alarm to inform you that a boat moored next to you is emitting CO gas so you have a warning, and can take action.

A nearby boat can be producing CO gas, it can escape thru an open window and move down wind to your boat, in thru an open window and kill you.

 

Far fetched ?

That was their justification.

 

They are making you install one to save you from other boaters emissions, not your own !

A lesser justification of a greater imperative which would otherwise be outside of the remit, surely? As I think you also allude to when you say "Far fetched?"

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

There are plenty of hazards identified in BSS checks which would otherwise have continued unchecked.

 

But are the 'hazards' identfied in the BSS actual hazards in normal everyday life ? (the one always quoted is having the pump-out fitting labelled)

 

I'd suggest that there are far more 'high risks' that the BSS does not cover or require (eg, all of the 230v AC section is not a 'requirement' - you could have a frayed and chewed up extension lead going from the bollard thru a window and with a 'plug' on the end it could be plugged into any socket to make the ring-main live.

 

The chewed up lead going thru the window and chafing back and forwards could actually make the boat 'live' and any passer by that touched the boat 'made dead'.

 

All the BSS examiner could say is "we advise that this is not best practice and you would be safer to have the wiring done correctly, but, your boat is a 'pass' - congratulations".

Edited August 15, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Bargebuilder]

48 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Clearly a boat with (insert name of realistic BSS failure here) is less safe than one without the hazard.

But if the percentage of boats on inland waterways that fail is applied to sea boats, then amongst sea boats one would expect huge numbers of undetected 'unsafe' boats and a proportionally higher number of accidents and deaths; are there?

 

If there are not, then the BSS certificate doesn't seem to be making much difference.

 

It would seem that prospective examiners are lured into the ridiculously expensive training process with an unrealistic expectation of a decent financial return. 

[Momac]

8 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

 

 

It would seem that prospective examiners are lured into the ridiculously expensive training process with an unrealistic expectation of a decent financial return. 

I don't think they are.

The bss are quite open about the need for a business case to be made amd they are clear about their fees for training and for processing certificates

 

[Bargebuilder]

14 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I don't think they are.

The bss are quite open about the need for a business case to be made amd they are clear about their fees for training and for processing certificates

 

That didn't stop our BSS examiner moaning about how it would take him more years to pay off the costs than he had left before he retired: I didn't ask the details.

 

 

[Momac]

23 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

That didn't stop our BSS examiner moaning about how it would take him more years to pay off the costs than he had left before he retired: I didn't ask the details.

Then that was his fault.

Sounds like he was not getting enough jobs in. I expect you have  to make yourself known to marinas and build a reputation. Moaning doesn't sound like good marketing.

 

The guy I use is a marine surveyor so the bss is a sideline. I give him plenty of notice and flexibility. He tries to do a few  boats in the marina in a day. He knows my boat very well so it must be a doddle.  I leave him the keys so there is no chit chat and no tea which probably suits us both.

 

Can't believe it was 2020 when we had the last bss  and we  were not allowed to be on board due to covid.

 

[Ewan123]

9 hours ago, MartynG said:

I  don't know  why folks feel they need to be on board during the BSS survey. I used to do house surveys a lot quicker and possibly better with no one to distract me from the job.

I was keen to be on board while ours was done as it was the first one done since we pushed that boat. It's a good opportunity to learn when the inspector is happy to talk through what they're looking at. Perhaps more relevant on boats where informed DIY is often the best approach?

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

But if the percentage of boats on inland waterways that fail is applied to sea boats, then amongst sea boats one would expect huge numbers of undetected 'unsafe' boats and a proportionally higher number of accidents and deaths; are there?

 

If there are not, then the BSS certificate doesn't seem to be making much difference.

In my experience of marine leisure boats (reasonable, but far less than my military seafaring), I've rarely moored near a vessel I thought looked as if the owner has absolutely no concept of boat safety as I have on canals. The odd one, yes, but this is perhaps the distinction.

@Alan de Enfield has more leisure cruising experience than me though, and has done extensive cruising in both inland and marine environments, so may well be able to comment more definitively.

[Bargebuilder]

28 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

In my experience of marine leisure boats (reasonable, but far less than my military seafaring), I've rarely moored near a vessel I thought looked as if the owner has absolutely no concept of boat safety as I have on canals. The odd one, yes, but this is perhaps the distinction.

@Alan de Enfield has more leisure cruising experience than me though, and has done extensive cruising in both inland and marine environments, so may well be able to comment more definitively.

You are absolutely correct, but those boats on the cut that have no concern for safety are likely the very ones that don't have BSCs.

 

I'll bet that there are tens of thousands of coastal boats that wouldn't pass the BSS inspection if it were compulsory: no CO detectors, glass water separator bowls on the diesel filter, too much petrol carried in cans, hoses not to the correct standard etc. Yet no statistics showing that accident rates are higher than on the canals.

[Momac]

12 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

, glass water separator bowls on the diesel filter

These are permitted if heat shields are fitted.

[David Mack]

7 hours ago, MartynG said:

 

It really aimed at professional surveyors who already have Professional Indemnity  Insurance and are vat registered  self employed.

You have to do gas training separately. 

Maybe it is now, but when the BSS was instigated there were concerns that there were not enough professional surveyors about to take on the task of examining thousands of boats that had never previously been looked at. Hence the new role of Boat Safety Examiner was created. It was expected that the new Examiners would be drawn from the ranks of boatbuilders, boatfitters, and boatyard staff as well as experienced boat owners looking for a little extra income. Because they would not all have relevant previous qualifications or experience, a training course was mandated and the rules were quite prescriptive, with little option for the examiners to exercise judgement in marginal cases.

Edited August 15, 2023 by David Mack

[mrsmelly]

22 hours ago, Tonka said:

Tom Keeling

Seconded.

[Momac]

53 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

I was keen to be on board while ours was done as it was the first one done since we pushed that boat. It's a good opportunity to learn when the inspector is happy to talk through what they're looking at. Perhaps more relevant on boats where informed DIY is often the best approach?

Depends on the nature of work undertaken  DIY I guess.

I have added CO detectors and I added a fire extinguisher . But my (lumpy water) boat is unchanged from new as far as bss matters are concerned . Maye due to lack of changes I always feel confident of  a  pass.

 

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Maybe it is now, but when the BSS was instigated there were concerns that there were not enough professional surveyors about to take on the task of examining thousands of boats that had never previously been looked at. Hence the new role of Boat Safety Examiner was created. It was expected that the new Examiners would be drawn from the ranks of boatbuilders, boatfitters, and boatyard staff as well as experienced boat owners looking for a little extra income. Because they would not all have relevant previous qualifications or experience, a training course was mandated and the rules were quite prescriptive, with little option for the examiners to exercise judgement in marginal cases.

The course still has to be completed by all candidates  regardless of qualifications , which is not unreasonable.