Narrowboat v GRP Cruiser option

[Hartlebury lad]

Hi all, 

 

After over 10 great years of a lifelong dream of owning our 55ft Trad, sadly, it looks like we are going to have to put it up for sale. A significant change of circumstances, financial constraints, and less opportunities to use the boat mean it is currently bad value for us and a struggle to maintain, let alone upgrade and modify. Covid didn't help, and my lady no longer feels the love for it. A mortgage paid off and more disposable income will soften the blow, but i am gutted.

 

Someone suggested maybe softening the blow and getting a GRP cruiser which would probably be better value - our boating is currently restricted to 3-4 night canal trips from our home marina. The current boat is worth 45-50k, and a brief gander on Apollo Duck shows (at a glance) decent looking starter boats for about £10 - £20k  but i know little about them. 

Has anyone done this, and what are the main advantages and disadvantages? Cheers....

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Hartlebury lad

[Arthur Marshall]

I've not done it yet as I can still manage my forty footer, but that's exactly what I'm planning on doing when it goes. I'm going to look for a thirty foot cruiser with an inboard engine, cheaper for licences and mooring and fine for pottering about, much easier to pull about. Get me up and down the Macc and Caldon.

[Mad Harold]

2 hours ago, Hartlebury lad said:

Hi all, 

 

After over 10 great years of a lifelong dream of owning our 55ft Trad, sadly, it looks like we are going to have to put it up for sale. A significant change of circumstances, financial constraints, and less opportunities to use the boat mean it is currently bad value for us and a struggle to maintain, let alone upgrade and modify. Covid didn't help, and my lady no longer feels the love for it. A mortgage paid off and more disposable income will soften the blow, but i am gutted.

 

Someone suggested maybe softening the blow and getting a GRP cruiser which would probably be better value - our boating is currently restricted to 3-4 night canal trips from our home marina. The current boat is worth 45-50k, and a brief gander on Apollo Duck shows (at a glance) decent looking starter boats for about £10 - £20k  but i know little about them. 

Has anyone done this, and what are the main advantages and disadvantages? Cheers....

 

Having had two grp boats and a steel narrowboat, without a doubt for canal cruising the steel narrowboat is the boy for the job.

GRP boats are cheaper to buy, run, and maintain as the hull doesn't corrode.

Some of grp boats drawbacks; usually petrol outboard powered which means humping cans of petrol around.The grp boats with inboard engines may have a Z drive which are expensive to maintain and repair, and unlike an outboard can't be removed without a lift out or sslipThe shaft drive ones (with a couple of exceptions) don't have a weed hatch so to clear the prop it is necessary to poke around underneath with a hooked pole, or get your swimming trunks on.

Not all grp cruisers are 6'-10" beam so if you cruise narrow canals, it is something to be aware of.

A steel narrowboat will most likely come with all the kit necessary for comfort, multi fuel stove, insulation, hot water and shower, cooker, fridge, etc. but grp boats may or may not have all or even some of these luxuries.

I am not a grp basher, in fact my next boat (due to crushing penury) will be a grp one.

If you go to view some grp boats, add a couple of grand to the price to cover the cost of items you will most likely need.

 

[Hartlebury lad]

Thanks, 

Some decent points there ...

It will be narrow canals. I was thinking more of the running costs in comparison to the 55 footer, which runs out at 5-6 k a year, 

One drawback is we are based on the Llangollen, all very pleasant but a bit more vulnerable collision wise!

Serious decision to make!

 

 

 

[Neil2]

It's an option I'm looking at as well.  We sold our last narrowboat a couple of years ago and simply can't justify the cost of acquisition and ownership again.  

 

But if you are used to canal cruising in a big steel boat, a small grp cruiser will take a lot of getting used to.  Mad Harold has listed some of the drawbacks all of which I agree with, but there's another consideration which is the way narrow grp boats handle.  Note I say narrow, as "proper" grp boats are a different animal.  If you have ever witnessed someone trying to control something like a Nauticus 27 on a windy day you will see what I mean...  Now, someone will come along and tell you they have such a vessel and it's no trouble at all, but if you have been schooled on a heavy steel boat with tiller steering believe me a featherlight narrow grp cruiser will come as something of a shock.  

 

And, of course you will need a shedload of plastic fenders which will have to be stowed every time you go through locks.

 

OTOH if you don't mind being restricted to wide canals, and rivers, a grp boat makes perfect sense, and they are far better value for money than narrowboats.  Just bear in mind that the flip side is they are harder to sell, when the time comes.

 

If you have to go narrow, off the top of my head you are looking at the little 22' Freemans, Nauticus 27's, various Dawncrafts and Normans, but I would keep a lookout for a Highbridge 32 - have a look around the web if you don't know what they are, but they were designed/built with canal cruising in mind and can be had for under £20k.  They don't come up for sale that often and condition varies enormously, but for narrow canal cruising I doubt there's anything better.  (The much rarer Dawncraft Rover is essentially the same boat).

 

Just a final thought, my wife and I had enormous fun with our first boat which was a Springer Waterbug.  These were 20-23 foot steel boats powered by outboard motors and with a V shaped hull.  Unlike a grp boat of similar size the Waterbug, being around 3 tonnes, handles really well and for short trips they are a very practical choice.  Unfortunately most surviving examples will have been overplated which for such a tiny boat causes some issues (there's no ballast to remove so the boat inevitably sits a lot lower in the water).  Nevertheless it's another budget option.   

[Lady M]

I'm a bit concerned that the OP's wife 'no longer feels the love'.  If that is love for all boating rather than simply the boat in question, then changing to a 'cheaper to own/run' boat won't address the whole issue.

 

Apart from changing to a shorter steel or fibreglass boat, other potential options include both hiring and shared ownership.  Hiring is great for exploring different parts of the waterway system and shared ownership can suit those with limited time for boating. 

[Naughty Cal]

1 hour ago, Lady C said:

I'm a bit concerned that the OP's wife 'no longer feels the love'.  If that is love for all boating rather than simply the boat in question, then changing to a 'cheaper to own/run' boat won't address the whole issue.

 

Apart from changing to a shorter steel or fibreglass boat, other potential options include both hiring and shared ownership.  Hiring is great for exploring different parts of the waterway system and shared ownership can suit those with limited time for boating. 

I would agree with this. If one  member of the party is just not interested in boating anymore then that will be the same whatever boat they buy. 

 

We saw it a lot in the 13 years that we had NC. A change of boat never solved the problem.

1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

It's an option I'm looking at as well.  We sold our last narrowboat a couple of years ago and simply can't justify the cost of acquisition and ownership again.  

 

But if you are used to canal cruising in a big steel boat, a small grp cruiser will take a lot of getting used to.  Mad Harold has listed some of the drawbacks all of which I agree with, but there's another consideration which is the way narrow grp boats handle.  Note I say narrow, as "proper" grp boats are a different animal.  If you have ever witnessed someone trying to control something like a Nauticus 27 on a windy day you will see what I mean...  Now, someone will come along and tell you they have such a vessel and it's no trouble at all, but if you have been schooled on a heavy steel boat with tiller steering believe me a featherlight narrow grp cruiser will come as something of a shock.  

 

And, of course you will need a shedload of plastic fenders which will have to be stowed every time you go through locks.

 

OTOH if you don't mind being restricted to wide canals, and rivers, a grp boat makes perfect sense, and they are far better value for money than narrowboats.  Just bear in mind that the flip side is they are harder to sell, when the time comes.

 

If you have to go narrow, off the top of my head you are looking at the little 22' Freemans, Nauticus 27's, various Dawncrafts and Normans, but I would keep a lookout for a Highbridge 32 - have a look around the web if you don't know what they are, but they were designed/built with canal cruising in mind and can be had for under £20k.  They don't come up for sale that often and condition varies enormously, but for narrow canal cruising I doubt there's anything better.  (The much rarer Dawncraft Rover is essentially the same boat).

 

Just a final thought, my wife and I had enormous fun with our first boat which was a Springer Waterbug.  These were 20-23 foot steel boats powered by outboard motors and with a V shaped hull.  Unlike a grp boat of similar size the Waterbug, being around 3 tonnes, handles really well and for short trips they are a very practical choice.  Unfortunately most surviving examples will have been overplated which for such a tiny boat causes some issues (there's no ballast to remove so the boat inevitably sits a lot lower in the water).  Nevertheless it's another budget option.   

Viking do a range of narrow beam canal cruisers as well. They still make them so there are examples from the 70's right through to modern day, so an example for every budget.

 

They seem to hold their money as well. When we bought NC we were on our way to Ely to put an order in on a brand new Viking 20. That boat at the time in 2008 was going to be £18k with a 30hp outboard. Today they are a very similar price for a boat from the same era.

 

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/viking-cruisers-20-for-sale/730744

[Bee]

What I would do. (Seldom a good idea) Just think of this as an opportunity, flog the heavy, expensive, corroding narrowboat and have a look at Wilderness boats, GRP, Trailable so not stuck in an expensive marina and you can visit anywhere with a slipway and also if you are brave take it to France - Canal du Midi without fighting the Rhone - and all the rivers, e.g. the  Lot and other places not connected to the main system. Also if it does depreciate it will not hurt very much. That's my plan anyway.

[Neil2]

8 hours ago, Hartlebury lad said:

Thanks, 

Some decent points there ...

It will be narrow canals. I was thinking more of the running costs in comparison to the 55 footer, which runs out at 5-6 k a year, 

One drawback is we are based on the Llangollen, all very pleasant but a bit more vulnerable collision wise!

Serious decision to make!

 

 

 

 

The shallow draught of a grp narrow beam would be welcome, but I think your nerves would tested to the limit on the Llangollen.  Obviously it's a busy canal and full of inexperienced hire boat crews for a start, and those by washes on the locks would take some skill to negotiate in a skittish grp cruiser.

 

 

[Hartlebury lad]

Thank you for all the contributions on this, i have read them all, and lots of sensible comments. Neil 2, Naughty Cal, and Bee all offer ideas,  I accept GRP boats will handle much differently, at the moment we potter around the area North of Whitchurch to Llangollen, and the Monty, so the bywashes are not a massive issue. Viking in particular seem to have a decent range to be fair. 

I have had a look at all the suggestions and it's likely we will have a couple more months before putting the boat on brokerage and make a decision. I suspect there will be no replacement until my wife retains her mojo, or finances improve. Or both!

[Didne]

Hello … interested in this thread … is there an update ? … How did you get on ? … xxx

[Crewcut]

A Highbridge 32 might, just might, suit a single hardy, tidy, minimalist liveaboard but it would need additional insulation or would be a nightmare in the winter months. I have seen them with stoves fitted though, even one where the large windows had been removed, the whole area fibreglassed and then portholes added - much less window area so reducing condensation...

[harrybsmith]

On 07/11/2023 at 13:31, Crewcut said:

A Highbridge 32 might, just might, suit a single hardy, tidy, minimalist liveaboard but it would need additional insulation or would be a nightmare in the winter months. I have seen them with stoves fitted though, even one where the large windows had been removed, the whole area fibreglassed and then portholes added - much less window area so reducing condensation...

 

I lived aboard my Highbridge 32 for 6 years, some additional insulation and a Boatman stove made it cosy enough, the main drawback was the windows being huuuuge, and the standing height inside once insulated.

 

As a point of utter pedantry, I bet you haven't seen a Highbridge with portholes as Leviathan (relatively widely published and nicely done) was actually a fake Highbridge not made by the original builder (Bob Smith). I had the pleasure of chatting to him at some length about how they were designed etc. 

 

So yeah, in answer to the original question GRP cruisers are a good option, once my current boat build is on the water I'm planning to get something trailable (Highbridge 23 would be ideal but good luck finding one) and use that to go cruising with as 4hrs on a trailer gets you to very different parts of the network. Go and look at some, see whether you like his they feel. 

[Crewcut]

17 hours ago, harrybsmith said:

 

I lived aboard my Highbridge 32 for 6 years, some additional insulation and a Boatman stove made it cosy enough, the main drawback was the windows being huuuuge, and the standing height inside once insulated.

 

As a point of utter pedantry, I bet you haven't seen a Highbridge with portholes as Leviathan (relatively widely published and nicely done) was actually a fake Highbridge not made by the original builder (Bob Smith). I had the pleasure of chatting to him at some length about how they were designed etc. 

 

So yeah, in answer to the original question GRP cruisers are a good option, once my current boat build is on the water I'm planning to get something trailable (Highbridge 23 would be ideal but good luck finding one) and use that to go cruising with as 4hrs on a trailer gets you to very different parts of the network. Go and look at some, see whether you like his they feel. 

 

Bang on Harry, I've noticed your avatar before as well. Been to see what I think was a genuine H32 to scope out possibility of getting one myself to spend a few years on the canals and concluded it would do me fine. I'm well used to FG boats (14 years living full time now) & liked what they (eventually) did with Leviathan...

[Hartlebury lad]

On 07/11/2023 at 11:34, Didne said:

Hello … interested in this thread … is there an update ? … How did you get on ? … xxx

Hi, thanks for the interest. 

As you can see, i still have a nosey on here.

With some misgivings, we sold the boat a few weeks ago.  Paid off the mortgage, blah de blah...

It's now late autumn early winter, so no real pangs, but don't ask me how i will feel in Spring! No plans to get another boat of any kind. I have converted my van into a camper with some of the proceeds, new adventures, but it won't be the same. 

As for the future....never say never......😉

[Puffling]

David Johns sold his narrowboat last year to move into a house. He recently bought a small GRP cruiser (non live aboard) and seems happy with it:

 

[BilgePump]

1 hour ago, Puffling said:

David Johns sold his narrowboat last year to move into a house. He recently bought a small GRP cruiser (non live aboard) and seems happy with it:

 

Blimey, didn't take him too long. Microplus 600s are great little boats, like the 510 he went out on but with a tiny back cabin. I could empathise with a lot of his enjoyment that you can get from a little yoghurt pot. Family had only been without the NB for about 8 months before I got a 19' GRP to get back on the cut.

[Puffling]

5 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Blimey, didn't take him too long. Microplus 600s are great little boats, like the 510 he went out on but with a tiny back cabin. I could empathise with a lot of his enjoyment that you can get from a little yoghurt pot. Family had only been without the NB for about 8 months before I got a 19' GRP to get back on the cut.

It's like getting the "smell of the lamp" - once you've experienced being out on the water nothing land-based quite matches.

 

CtC has big plans for his Microplus, it seems. Induction hob, electric outboard. Probably a lithium battery bank and more solar panels. Despite the cost, I'd say a nice quiet and controllable outboard would be a good upgrade on a small boat. Especially given the handling challenges a petrol outboard ("two speeds") gives.

[BilgePump]

5 hours ago, Puffling said:

It's like getting the "smell of the lamp" - once you've experienced being out on the water nothing land-based quite matches.

 

CtC has big plans for his Microplus, it seems. Induction hob, electric outboard. Probably a lithium battery bank and more solar panels. Despite the cost, I'd say a nice quiet and controllable outboard would be a good upgrade on a small boat. Especially given the handling challenges a petrol outboard ("two speeds") gives.

I never bothered to try and modify my little 5hp for wheel and throttle control so steer it on the tiller arm. Oh, now that is fun when even the smallest excited movement one way or another can twist the throttle grip and pile on the revs, usually when you are doing like he did, trying to move out of the way for something big and steel boat like or solid and bank like!

 

eta: One of the things to remember about these type of boats, small Shetland, Norman, Microplus etc is that they are a planing hull. 90hp would be right for my boat for inshore coastal, waterski etc. They handle really well on the plane. At really low speeds, when they're  just displacing the water, the handling gets vague regardless of engine type or any wind or water movement.

Edited November 20, 2023 by BilgePump