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PSW inverter recommendations

blackrose

By blackrose
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Jen-in-Wellies Veteran II

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11 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Another brexit bonus pre brexit you wouldn't have had to bother ..

I notice that Belgian beers are still getting through 

When the weight of the paperwork exceeds the weight of the chocolates, then smuggling is the way to go. You'd have though this government would approve of my way of eliminating red tape, but HMRC don't agree!

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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7 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Interestingly, my recently purchased 600W PSW Sunshine Solar inverter has a rocker switch to bond neutral to earth, or leave it floating.

 

I'm not sure why they would be giving me the choice. The manual does not explain! 

 

When it comes to generators, most small suitcase generators have a floating earth. 

 

My understanding is that they're designed to run a couple of power tools on an extension lead or even a small catering van with several sockets. Once you have a full mains ring with breakers and multiple potential failure points then it's time to be properly earthed as breakers may not work with a floating earth. It's effectively the choice between bringing a mains extension lead on board your boat and relying on the generator's safety systems or having proper mains earthing and proper breakers. That's my layman's understanding anyway. 

 

Perhaps the choice of earthing an inverter is similar?

 

That being said, if the choice for a generator or inverter is for a N-E bonded output then the hull must be earth bonded too (as it should be anyway), or there should be an earth spike if it's not on a boat.

Edited by blackrose
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Higgs Influencer

Higgs

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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

When it comes to generators, most small suitcase generators have a floating earth. 

 

My understanding is that they're designed to run a couple of power tools on an extension lead or even a small catering van with several sockets. Once you have a full mains ring with breakers and multiple potential failure points then it's time to be properly earthed as breakers may not work with a floating earth. It's effectively the choice between bringing a mains extension lead on board your boat and relying on the generator's safety systems or having proper mains earthing and proper breakers. That's my layman's understanding anyway. 

 

Perhaps the choice of earthing an inverter is similar?

 

That being said, if the choice for a generator or inverter is for a N-E bonded output then the hull must be earth bonded too (as it should be anyway), or there should be an earth spike if it's not on a boat.

 

All the AC supplies I have - generator, inverter and shoreline go through the galvanic isolator, which is earthed to the shell of the boat. The inverter is not connected through a selector switch, so shoreline or inverter feed the mains without the other playing any part. Likewise, when the generator is used, only it supplies the mains. Its earth is also connected through the galvanic isolator. Only one piece of equipment at a time is plugged in to what is a shoreline socket. The Sterling battery charger is also grounded to the shell. 

 

 

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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2 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

All the AC supplies I have - generator, inverter and shoreline go through the galvanic isolator, which is earthed to the shell of the boat. The inverter is not connected through a selector switch, so shoreline or inverter feed the mains without the other playing any part. Likewise, when the generator is used, only it supplies the mains. Its earth is also connected through the galvanic isolator. 

 

Surely any earth connection from the GI to the hull of the boat must be on the boat side of the isolator? If it's on the shore side then the GI isn't isolating the boat. So without wishing to be pedantic unless there's a fault and the diodes go into circuit is the earth connection going "through" the GI?

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Higgs Influencer

Higgs

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10 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Surely any earth connection from the GI to the hull of the boat must be on the boat side of the isolator? If it's on the shore side then the GI isn't isolating the boat. So without wishing to be pedantic unless there's a fault and the diodes go into circuit is the earth connection going "through" the GI?

 

They are on the boat side, for equipment such as the charger and inverter earth bonding. But all the mains supplying equipment pass through the GI and on through the distribution box and RCD. Not sure if I should just have a dedicated post wired to shell for the charger and inverter earth bonding, so I use the outward-bound post of the GI, which is connected to the shell. The thing is, without this wire to the shell, on the outward-bound GI post, there would be no earthing for the generator or inverter mains. 

 

I'm not hooked up to shoreline mains. 

 

 

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jonathanA Experienced

jonathanA

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11 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

They are on the boat side, for equipment such as the charger and inverter earth bonding. But all the mains supplying equipment pass through the GI and on through the distribution box and RCD. Not sure if I should just have a dedicated post wired to shell for the charger and inverter earth bonding, so I use the outward-bound post of the GI, which is connected to the shell. The thing is, without this wire to the shell, on the outward-bound GI post, there would be no earthing for the generator or inverter mains. 

 

I'm not hooked up to shoreline mains. 

 

 

I really am struggling to understand what you think you have and what you think your GI is doing. 

 

The Gi is only in the earth so this doesn't make sense to me :

"But all the mains supplying equipment pass through the GI and..."

 

And if your inverter and generator are on board they are unlikely to cause galvanic corrosion and you say you have earthed them to Hull using the GI/Hull connection anyway so they arent using the gi (would be pointless)

 

So sorry I'm just a bit confused about your statements that all your "AC supplies go through your GI." 

 

I think what you are actually saying is that only your shoreline connection uses the Gi, but you no longer use that. 

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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On 04/10/2022 at 08:24, Higgs said:

Renogy seem to be a solid company. I currently have three of their charge controllers, four of their 100w solar panels and the 2000w inverter. I also have a 3Kw Victron inverter, which is built like a tank, rather than fit it, I bought the Renogy  2Kw, which is a lot lighter and a lot easier to find a place for.

 

2000W Inverter,Campervan Inverter,240V Inverter 12V|Renogy UK

 

Just so you're aware. I've just received an email from Renogy which says that inverter is NOT neutral-earth bonded. Quite a surprise to me. I'd sort of assumed it must be but wanted to check before ordering.

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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I've just found a page from one of Renogy's other inverter manuals which states it is N-E bonded. So I'm not sure why the one you posted the link to wouldn't be? The only thing I can think it's that because it has an AC bypass option the mains supply is already bonded, but I don't see how that's safe once you disconnect the shore power cable?

IMG-20221006-WA0011.jpg

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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41 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I think the question to ask is "is it alright to N-E bond the output" 

Gibbos light bulb test helps answer that question IIRC. 

 

Yes, but the trouble is Renogy don't have a phone contact number (not that I can find anyway) so you don't know if the person who replies to an email is technical person or just a customer service representative. 

 

I don't really feel qualified enough to conduct Gibbo's light bulb tests given all his warnings.

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GUMPY Veteran II

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One that is stand alone should be E>N bonded.

One that has a mains input may well not be as it will take the N>E bond from the supply as if it was bonded it would trip the supply. Victrons were like this for years until they introduced a ground relay between N and E which connected when there was no supply and disconnected when there was a supply. Because of this for years I had a dummy socket that was E>N bonded that I used to plug into the shore line input when I wasn't on shore line.

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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1 hour ago, Loddon said:

One that is stand alone should be E>N bonded.

One that has a mains input may well not be as it will take the N>E bond from the supply as if it was bonded it would trip the supply. 

 

Which is fine as long as you're connected to the supply. What I don't understand is what the situation is once you disconnect from the supply when it effectively becomes a standalone unit? No N-E bonding from the supply and no N-E bonding in the unit...

 

I see your suggestion for the Victron but I've no idea if it's safe on all units. Anyway, I think I'll give Renogy a miss. The technical support is basically non-existent.

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GUMPY Veteran II

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If N-E is bonded in the unit when you connect to an external supply it will trip the RCD on the supply. Victron fitted a relay in their combi  for this very reason. 

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MtB Veteran II

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28 minutes ago, Loddon said:

If N-E is bonded in the unit when you connect to an external supply it will trip the RCD on the supply. Victron fitted a relay in their combi  for this very reason. 

 

 

But but.... why would an inverter ever be connected an external mains supply? Sure the point of them is to take 12Vdc (or <whatever>dc) and make 230Vac out of it. 

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GUMPY Veteran II

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4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

But but.... why would an inverter ever be connected an external mains supply? Sure the point of them is to take 12Vdc (or <whatever>dc) and make 230Vac out of it. 

Some inverters as opposed to combi units do have AC pass through

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