The red diesel headache for pleasure boat operators

[Alan de Enfield]

The red diesel headache for pleasure boat operators - BBC News

 

 

The boating community on Lough Erne says it is experiencing a quieter summer on the water, mostly due to soaring fuel costs.

One hire operator says his business is down by as much as two-thirds.

Another said Northern Ireland's hire businesses are at a "disadvantage" since they can no longer use the cheaper red diesel for propelling their vessels unlike their counterparts in the rest of the UK.

John Patrick McCaldin runs a cruiser hire company based in Irvinestown, with a subsidiary in County Cavan.

"The average fuel bill has more than doubled. It's around £200 or £250 a week - the average week's hire is around £1,500," he says.

"Before, £100 was not too bad, now you're looking at nearly another 20% on top of your hire."

The average white diesel price is now 196.0p per litre, with red diesel at 99.14p.

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The UK government has banned the use of red diesel - which is standard diesel but taxed at a lower rate - in a number of sectors including construction and manufacturing in a bid to help meet its climate change targets.

Red diesel is diesel that had been used mainly for off-road purposes, such as to power bulldozers and cranes used in the construction industry, or to power drills for oil extraction, according to a government policy paper.

It accounted for about 15% of all the diesel used in the UK and was responsible for the production of nearly 14 million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year.

However, the government allowed recreational boaters in England, Scotland and Wales to continue to use it.

This was not extended to Northern Ireland due to Brexit obligations and to align it with the type of fuel used by pleasure craft in the Republic of Ireland.

"If you do a like-for-like comparison, that's a competitive disadvantage for us," Mr McCaldin said.

"We have to abide by that, whereas the rest of the UK doesn't.

"It's here to stay until the {Northern Ireland] protocol's sorted out, which doesn't seem to be any time soon."

[Bargebuilder]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The average white diesel price is now 196.0p per litre, with red diesel at 99.14p.

What are they complaining about, we can pay £2.20/l of RED for engine use.

 

I've bought from a marina in England that now only sells white.

[cuthound]

I fail to see how making the construction industry change from red to.white diesel helps meet reducing CO2 targets, unless the industry builds fewer things.

 

I suspect it was a way of increasing taxation without the government being blamed 

Edited July 10, 2022 by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect.

[Paul C]

12 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

 

I've bought from a marina in England that now only sells white.

 

Why??

[Bargebuilder]

8 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Why??

I did ask, because they fairly recently sold RED. The chap said "with the new legislation putting the responsibility on them it's just easier"

 

I admit I didn't know what he meant and since I wanted it for heating, I took my business elsewhere.

[Steilsteven]

6 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I fail to see how making the construction industry change from red to.white diesel helps meet reducing CO2 targets, unless the industry builds fewer things.

 

I suspect it was a way of increasing taxation without the government being blamed 

It's to encourage frugality, ie not leave machines running when not actually in use, plus give an incentive to invest in other forms of power.

 

 

Keith

[George and Dragon]

Just now, Steilsteven said:

It's to encourage frugality, ie not leave machines running when not actually in use, plus give an incentive to invest in other forms of power.

 

 

Keith

Good luck with that!

[Steilsteven]

2 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

Good luck with that!

Luck has nothing to do with it, suppliers stopped delivering red diesel to sites in April.

I had a delivery of red HVO back then and the driver told me his next drop was 5000 litres of white HVO to a construction site.

 

Keith

[George and Dragon]

The people who operate the machines will continue to use them as before, meaning that the amount of diesel used will remain unchanged but the tax revenue will increase. HVO is taxed at the same rate as dino juice.

[Bargebuilder]

10 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

It's to encourage frugality, ie not leave machines running when not actually in use, plus give an incentive to invest in other forms of power.

 

 

Keith

With bricklayers earning over 50k a year, saving a few pounds by turning off diesel engines isn't going to make very much difference in the scheme of things, but every little helps.

 

I wonder if JCB are working on a battery powered back loader.

[Lady M]

I think there may be more bio fuel in white diesel than in red, which would be seen as 'greener'.

[Bargebuilder]

10 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

It's to encourage frugality, ie not leave machines running when not actually in use, plus give an incentive to invest in other forms of power.

 

 

Keith

With bricklayers earning over 50k a year, saving a few pounds by turning off diesel engines isn't going to make very much difference in the scheme of things, but every little helps.

 

I wonder if JCB are working on a battery powered back loader.

[Paul C]

16 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I did ask, because they fairly recently sold RED. The chap said "with the new legislation putting the responsibility on them it's just easier"

 

I admit I didn't know what he meant and since I wanted it for heating, I took my business elsewhere.

 

Aaaah makes sense (that you didn't buy the diesel from them, just other stuff). I was totally unaware there was a shift of responsibility from boat owner to marina on domestic/propulsion split declaration - this was my experience filling up 5 times at 5 different places in the past 2 weeks, nobody mentioned "new rules" at all.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, George and Dragon said:

The people who operate the machines will continue to use them as before

 

Yes, but some of the people who buy the new plant will give a long hard look at other power units.  Probably electric.

 

The extra taxes on DERV make the sums stack up better.

[Bargebuilder]

3 minutes ago, Paul C said:

this was my experience filling up 5 times at 5 different places in the past 2 weeks, nobody mentioned "new rules" at all.

Wow! You either have a very thirsty engine or tiny tanks.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

With bricklayers earning over 50k a year, saving a few pounds by turning off diesel engines isn't going to make very much difference in the scheme of things, but every little helps.

 

I wonder if JCB are working on a battery powered back loader.

 

Yes they launched a 2-tonne digger a couple of years ago - it managed about 3 hours on the battery and then had to go on charge (on a huge diesel site generator) for hours and hours to recharge.

 

You have to laugh !!!

[Bargebuilder]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes they launched a 2-tonne digger a couple of years ago - it managed about 3 hours on the battery and then had to go on charge (on a huge diesel site generator) for hours and hours to recharge.

 

You have to laugh !!!

And a two tonne digger is very small.

[Steilsteven]

7 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

With bricklayers earning over 50k a year, saving a few pounds by turning off diesel engines isn't going to make very much difference in the scheme of things, but every little helps.

 

I wonder if JCB are working on a battery powered back loader.

Bricklayers don't run construction sites, you've been reading the Mail again haven't you.😁

[Bargebuilder]

Just now, Steilsteven said:

Bricklayers don't run construction sites, you've been reading the Mail again haven't you.😁

I have a close friend who is a brick layer and he earns £250 a day building domestic houses, so saving a little fuel amongst all the other costs, not least the dramatically rising cost of materials, won't make much difference even to the bosses.

[Steilsteven]

14 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

The people who operate the machines will continue to use them as before, meaning that the amount of diesel used will remain unchanged but the tax revenue will increase. HVO is taxed at the same rate as dino juice.

I doubt that very much.

HVO is more expensive too but that doesn't stop contractors from using it in preference to white diesel.

 

[Paul C]

5 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Wow! You either have a very thirsty engine or tiny tanks.

 

Prices are very volatile, by filling up frequently it guards against a price spike. One marina told me that next week the prices will have to go up by 30p/litre. Admittedly a few of the fill-ups were hardly worth it.

[Steilsteven]

1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

I have a close friend who is a brick layer and he earns £250 a day building domestic houses, so saving a little fuel amongst all the other costs, not least the dramatically rising cost of materials, won't make much difference even to the bosses.

I bow to your superior knowledge, even though I was in construction for most of my working life.

[Bargebuilder]

3 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

I bow to your superior knowledge, even though I was in construction for most of my working life.

You should see the £120k grp cruiser he recently bought, it made me wonder If I chose the right career path.

[Paul C]

40 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

 The chap said "with the new legislation putting the responsibility on them it's just easier"

 

 

Anyway..........what's the new legislation?

[Lady M]

Another side effect of this same new legislation is that, for example, a diesel fired dry dock heater can no longer be powered by red.  If the boatyard are using diesel for this type of activity as well as selling it to boaters, it may well be easier for them to change to all white.