Adding corrosion inhibitor

[blackrose]

I want to add some corrosion inhibitor to my red engine antifreeze as it's well over 5 years old now. I really can't be bothered to drain it all out yet so I'm just going to put some Morris Ankorsol in.

 

If I just add it to the reservoir is it going to circulate or do I need to empty some coolant out of the engine first? I only need to add about a litre of inhibitor. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by blackrose

[Tony Brooks]

7 hours ago, blackrose said:

I want to add some corrosion inhibitor to my red engine antifreeze as it's well over 5 years old now. I really can't be bothered to drain it all out yet so I'm just going to put some Morris Ankorsol in.

 

If I just add it to the reservoir is it going to circulate or do I need to empty some coolant out of the engine first? I only need to add about a litre of inhibitor. 

 

Depends on how the reservoir is piped up. If coolant circulates through it all the time the engine is running then given time probably, especially if you have a calorifier to provide two coolant paths through the system - given time!

 

If the  reservoir has just one pipe on it then probably not.

[frangar]

Worth noting that when I asked Morris tech support about adding ankorsl to extend the life of antifreeze they said this hadn’t been tested and they wouldn’t recommend it…my post with their exact reply is on here somewhere….it’s a pity as it would be very useful if you could use it. Some did suggest that when the existing inhibitors age they might turn acidic…

 

Given that I can’t get a definitive answer I decided it was prudent to completely change the coolant at the specified intervals. 

 

[Tony Brooks]

41 minutes ago, frangar said:

Some did suggest that when the existing inhibitors age they might turn acidic

 

I think the coolant may become acidic once the inhibitor has been depleted so it can no longer neutralize it, not the actual inhibitor, but it is the same thing really.

[frangar]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think the coolant may become acidic once the inhibitor has been depleted so it can no longer neutralize it, not the actual inhibitor, but it is the same thing really.

I would have thought if automotive antifreeze of any type could be life extended by the addition of another additive at set intervals then they would be widely available but as they aren’t it does suggest that there might be good reason. 
 

As I understand it Ankorsol is used where a corrosion inhibitor is wanted but not any antifreeze properties. Eg. Warmer climates. 

[blackrose]

52 minutes ago, frangar said:

Worth noting that when I asked Morris tech support about adding ankorsl to extend the life of antifreeze they said this hadn’t been tested and they wouldn’t recommend it…

 

 

That's odd because on the back of the bottle it states it's compatible with all types of antifreeze/coolant. So why would anyone add Ankorsol to their antifreeze other than  to extend or enhance its corrosion inhibiting properties? 

 

Sounds like another case of arse covering from someone at Morris to me. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by blackrose

[frangar]

9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

That's odd because on the back of the bottle it states it's compatible with all types of antifreeze/coolant. So why would anyone add Ankorsol to their antifreeze other than  to extend or enhance its corrosion inhibiting properties? 

As I said in the above post I was advised it was for use where an antifreeze wasn’t needed. 
 

Maybe it’s worth sending an email to Morris tech support again to see if they have now tested it and changed their advice. I’d happily use it if so as I need about 35 litres of antifreeze to make the coolant up due to a massive skin tank!….plus using it in various vintage vehicles. 
 

It might be arse covering but I’d rather my engines weren’t the test bed! 

Edited June 3, 2022 by frangar

[blackrose]

9 minutes ago, frangar said:

As I said in the above post I was advised it was for use where an antifreeze wasn’t needed. 
 

 

Yes, but as I said in the above post Morris state it's compatible with all types of antifreeze.

 

[frangar]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, but as I said in the above post Morris state it's compatible with all types of antifreeze.

 

My advice would be to ask their tech support and report back. They may well be non committal then it’s up to you to decide if you take a chance….personally whilst it’s a faff to change all the coolant it’s cheaper than a new set of liners for a JP!  

[blackrose]

44 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think the coolant may become acidic once the inhibitor has been depleted so it can no longer neutralize it, not the actual inhibitor, but it is the same thing really.

 

Would it be possible to use pH test strips on the antifreeze in the engine and test against new antifreeze in the bottle? I've got a few litres of new stuff for top ups, but don't want to buy 40 litres if I can avoid it.

 

 

10 minutes ago, frangar said:

My advice would be to ask their tech support and report back. They may well be non committal then it’s up to you to decide if you take a chance….personally whilst it’s a faff to change all the coolant it’s cheaper than a new set of liners for a JP!  

 

Yes I think I will as what they've said to you and what they're saying on the back of the bottle seems contradictory to me. 

 

I wonder what proportion of boat owners and even car drivers change their antifreeze at all? I'm sure some never do it. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by blackrose

[frangar]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

Would it be possible to use pH test strips on the antifreeze in the engine and test against new antifreeze in the bottle? I've got a few litres of new stuff for top ups, but don't want to buy 40 litres if I can avoid it.

 

 

But that wouldn’t test if there was a reaction between the existing antifreeze and the ankorsol….or if that changes over time with heating/cooling cycles etc. This might sound paranoid but I’d rather someone other than me and my engine had tested for all possibilities hence why companies have R & D facilities.
 

I will email Morris and report back what I find. 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

Would it be possible to use pH test strips on the antifreeze in the engine and test against new antifreeze in the bottle? I've got a few litres of new stuff for top ups, but don't want to buy 40 litres if I can avoid it.

 

 

I suspect it would as far as acid is concerned but not being a chemist I don't know how all the corrosion inhibition is achieved. Some of it might not rely upon acid and alkaline. In fact modern OAT antifreeze is said to be Organic Acid Technology.

[Tracy D'arth]

So the answer you were given was not the one you wanted?

 

If you are happy with the printing on the bottle, add away.

If not what do you want as an answer?

[frangar]

6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes I think I will as what they've said to you and what they're saying on the back of the bottle seems contradictory to me. 

 

I wonder what proportion of boat owners and even car drivers change their antifreeze at all? I'm sure some never do it. 

I’m sure they don’t but one of my fleet a “modern classic” is now 22 years old…Its still on the original  radiator whilst others of the same model have had replacements due to them rotting the cores out…mine has had the antifreeze changed as per the manufacture recommendation…might just be luck but who knows….from what I see in the scrap yard next to my unit cars seem to last between 10-15 years so it’s not an issue if there is block corrosion…but boat & plant engines hopefully have a longer life so issues like internal corrosion become more apparent. 

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, frangar said:

I’m sure they don’t but one of my fleet a “modern classic” is now 22 years old…Its still on the original  radiator whilst others of the same model have had replacements due to them rotting the cores out…mine has had the antifreeze changed as per the manufacture recommendation…might just be luck but who knows….from what I see in the scrap yard next to my unit cars seem to last between 10-15 years so it’s not an issue if there is block corrosion…but boat & plant engines hopefully have a longer life so issues like internal corrosion become more apparent. 

The worry is of course the corrosion in the skin tanks, cast iron blocks seem to outlast everything else.

 

I would test the ph of the coolant. But first I would test the ph of new coolant, is it neutral when new?

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

So the answer you were given was not the one you wanted?

 

If you are happy with the printing on the bottle, add away.

If not what do you want as an answer?

 

I think you need to read the first post again.

My question was about whether adding inhibitor to the engine reservoir would circulate it around the engine. The only person who answered that question was Tony and I took the advice onboard. I never asked about extending the life of the antifreeze with corrosion inhibitor, that was someone else's comment that I responded to. So your comment about me not getting the answer I wanted is nonsense. 

 

As I have already said, I will ask Morris tech support about enhancing the corrosion inhibition myself as nobody here really seems to know definitively. I'm not sure why you feel the need to post snide comments? We're just having a discussion if that's ok with you? 

Edited June 3, 2022 by blackrose

[frangar]

11 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The worry is of course the corrosion in the skin tanks, cast iron blocks seem to outlast everything else.

 

I would test the ph of the coolant. But first I would test the ph of new coolant, is it neutral when new?

In my case with wet liners in a JP that’s my first concern. It probably doesn’t apply to most boat engines but a lot of cars have cast iron blocks & alloy heads…where corrosion can be even more of an issue. 

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, frangar said:

In my case with wet liners in a JP that’s my first concern. It probably doesn’t apply to most boat engines but a lot of cars have cast iron blocks & alloy heads…where corrosion can be even more of an issue. 

 

Just as a point of interest I am sure the bottom of your liners are sealed with a pair of O rings or similar, probably with an external tell tail hole to show when the top one has started leaking. The stupid design prize goes to the likes of Renault with  alloy blocks and the wet liners sealed at the bottom by a selective thickness gasket. When the corrosion inhibitors on those fail the first you know is the coolant is dumped into the sump and usually a new block is needed because of corrosion  on the gasket seat.

[frangar]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Just as a point of interest I am sure the bottom of your liners are sealed with a pair of O rings or similar, probably with an external tell tail hole to show when the top one has started leaking. The stupid design prize goes to the likes of Renault with  alloy blocks and the wet liners sealed at the bottom by a selective thickness gasket. When the corrosion inhibitors on those fail the first you know is the coolant is dumped into the sump and usually a new block is needed because of corrosion  on the gasket seat.

That might explain why I see so many “modern” to my mind cars ending up in the scrappy next to me…although chatting to chaps there it’s usually some ridiculously priced ECU that’s died. I do think that’s why more things like gearboxes etc are “sealed for life”….it’s just the whole car life isn’t as long as you might think….I’m guessing with EV’s they will be scrap sooner than they might be due to how expensive it would be in both parts & labour to swap a battery pack. 

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

That reads like a too-good-to-be-true wonder fluid. Is it made from snake oil?

Edited June 3, 2022 by David Mack

[Chewbacka]

5 hours ago, frangar said:

That might explain why I see so many “modern” to my mind cars ending up in the scrappy next to me…although chatting to chaps there it’s usually some ridiculously priced ECU that’s died. I do think that’s why more things like gearboxes etc are “sealed for life”….it’s just the whole car life isn’t as long as you might think….I’m guessing with EV’s they will be scrap sooner than they might be due to how expensive it would be in both parts & labour to swap a battery pack. 

The computer chips that drive the ecu are only made for a few years, so making a new ecu some years later is not possible, so the car makers buy a ‘lifetime buy’ of complete ecu modules and hold as stock.  This is expensive, so they don’t want too buy too many, and they don’t want to sell them too quickly and run out.  Plus you can only buy from the manufacture.  So they charge to make a good profit and high enough not to run out of stock.

 

I guess with electric cars with a lot more control electronics and displays,  this will only get worse.