Canal “loses out” in levelling up funding

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, manxmike said:

Maybe so, but my point remains that financially and environmentally it would make sense to move freight by rail instead of road. 

It it made financial sense to move more freight by rail, it would already be happening. It is the sheer convenience of door to door road services that disadvantages rail.

And if you put more freight on rail, are you going to displace passengers? More cars on the roads is not an environmentally sensible option!

[manxmike]

26 minutes ago, David Mack said:

It it made financial sense to move more freight by rail, it would already be happening. It is the sheer convenience of door to door road services that disadvantages rail.

And if you put more freight on rail, are you going to displace passengers? More cars on the roads is not an environmentally sensible option!

If the rail network still existed it would be feasible to utilise it to move freight, in my earlier post it was clear that the Minister behind the Beeching axe job was in charge of roads - conflict of interest? Surely if freight was moved by rail there would be less vehicles on the road. There would be no need to displace passengers, the rail network is under used, it could be used far more efficiently.

[ditchcrawler]

46 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

 

There is indeed a short section of 3 tracks between Brinklow and Attleborough (a couple of miles east of Nuneaton station). The two down direction (northbound) tracks combine just before Stretton boatyard.

Thank goodness for that, I was doubting my self for a bit

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, manxmike said:

If the rail network still existed it would be feasible to utilise it to move freight, in my earlier post it was clear that the Minister behind the Beeching axe job was in charge of roads - conflict of interest? Surely if freight was moved by rail there would be less vehicles on the road. There would be no need to displace passengers, the rail network is under used, it could be used far more efficiently.

 

There are key locations on the rail network that are part of the Strategic Freight Network which operate very close to capacity - in fact the West Coast Main Line is officially designated as being limited in respect of it's capacity for new traffic. That doesn't mean these routes are as efficiently utilised as possible but in general the only way further improvements can be made once capacity is heavily utilised is to condense the different types of train path used into less variety. Essentially that means don't mix high speed passenger with freight and stopping services, I think @David Mack is a step ahead of you.

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

There are key locations on the rail network that are part of the Strategic Freight Network which operate very close to capacity - in fact the West Coast Main Line is officially designated as being limited in respect of it's capacity for new traffic. That doesn't mean these routes are as efficiently utilised as possible but in general the only way further improvements can be made once capacity is heavily utilised is to condense the different types of train path used into less variety. Essentially that means don't mix high speed passenger with freight and stopping services, I think @David Mack is a step ahead of you.

There is a very simple solution to the west coast mainline congestion, stick all the little Brum-London trains through Northampton(and remove the splitting trains waste of time..and change of platforms occasionally), keeping the fast direct lines for Avanti and North South Freight. DiRFT trains can all be sent in overnight.

[Ronaldo47]

Although the Stockton & Darington is popularly believed to be the first steam railway (that was what my son's junior school books said in the 1980's), it should be more correctly called  the first public railway.

 

In fact several private railways had introduced steam locomotive  haulage in the preceding decade, and found them cheaper to operate than the then-usual horse haulage. The earliest was in 1811, when Blenkinsop built a steam loco with rack and pinion adhesion for carrying coal from Middleton to Leeds.   In 1813 the Wylam colliery started using a steam engine built by Blackett & Hedley that ran on ordinary rails, the original "Puffing Billy". George Stephenson's first loco was the "Blucher", built in 1814 for the Killingworth railway.  He supplied several locos to other private colliery lines before getting involved in the public Stockton & Darlington railway in 1825.

 

. 

[matty40s]

You forget Trevethicks 1804 steam loco at Pedarryn

[davidg]

7 hours ago, matty40s said:

There is a very simple solution to the west coast mainline congestion, stick all the little Brum-London trains through Northampton(and remove the splitting trains waste of time..and change of platforms occasionally), keeping the fast direct lines for Avanti and North South Freight. DiRFT trains can all be sent in overnight.

A fortune awaits you in Milton Keynes*..

 

6 hours ago, matty40s said:

You forget Trevethicks 1804 steam loco at Pedarryn

 

I think you mean Penydarren!

 

*The location of the Network Rail timetable planning office.

[Captain Pegg]

8 hours ago, matty40s said:

There is a very simple solution to the west coast mainline congestion, stick all the little Brum-London trains through Northampton(and remove the splitting trains waste of time..and change of platforms occasionally), keeping the fast direct lines for Avanti and North South Freight. DiRFT trains can all be sent in overnight.

 

The semi-fast London - Birmingham services do go via Northampton. They always have done. The direct route via Weedon carries 9 x Avanti and 1 x LNW trains per hour in the basic timetable. The LNW train is a service to Crewe via the Trent Valley stations that stops only at Milton Keynes before Rugby and operates at 110mph (10mph faster than the LNW Birmingham trains) so that it fits between the Avanti trains, Next year there will be a 10th Avanti train.

 

There are at least two freight paths in every hour on the southern WCML of which very few serve DIRFT since most of the traffic using the terminals there are services heading north. There are a couple of flows via the Channel tunnel which enter from the south.

 

Railfreight operates on very fine margins and requires highly efficient use of rolling stock with some services also being supported by back-loading. Only running at night doesn't work for the customer.

 

In any case the biggest pinch points on the WCML are in the north and that's largely because the fast and slow lines are (99%) continuous and grade separated as far as express passenger vs freight is concerned until north of Crewe.

[Captain Pegg]

9 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Although the Stockton & Darington is popularly believed to be the first steam railway (that was what my son's junior school books said in the 1980's), it should be more correctly called  the first public railway.

 

In fact several private railways had introduced steam locomotive  haulage in the preceding decade, and found them cheaper to operate than the then-usual horse haulage. The earliest was in 1811, when Blenkinsop built a steam loco with rack and pinion adhesion for carrying coal from Middleton to Leeds.   In 1813 the Wylam colliery started using a steam engine built by Blackett & Hedley that ran on ordinary rails, the original "Puffing Billy". George Stephenson's first loco was the "Blucher", built in 1814 for the Killingworth railway.  He supplied several locos to other private colliery lines before getting involved in the public Stockton & Darlington railway in 1825.

 

. 

 

The distinction of the Stockton & Darlington Railway is that it was designed to be locomotive operated it's in entirety. That is what what distinguishes it from earlier builds that had some element of tramways.

 

Though it was public they didn't really develop the concept of the passenger train as the early versions were single horse drawn carriages on rail wheels.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Captain Pegg

[Ronaldo47]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

You forget Trevethicks 1804 steam loco at Pedarryn

I was conentrating on the lines that were commercial successes. Pen-y-Darren was a technical success in showing that simple adhesion  worked, but was not a commercial success, costing more to run than horses.  Apparently it did inspire Blackett and Hedley to try using adhesion rather than  Blekinsop's rack & pinion.