BMC 1.5 Oil with a lot of fuel in it.

[Tony Brooks]

Can't add to what Tracy said.

[mtbvincent]

Thanks guys! sounds like a plan, i will take out the injectors. 

To make shure its works well i will take them all out and clean them like the example of youtube.

When this is done i will lett you know 😃

 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, mtbvincent said:

Thanks guys! sounds like a plan, i will take out the injectors. 

To make shure its works well i will take them all out and clean them like the example of youtube.

When this is done i will lett you know 😃

 

 

I would strongly advise that you don't try t clean them yourself because it is all too easy to snap the pintle off the needle. The auxiliary spray hole is tiny and you need a pin holder and the correct sized wires to clean it, even then in my experience you will be lucky to get all of them clean without carbon resolving liquid in an ultrasonic bath.

 

Even if you manage to get them clean and without damage then unless you have a pop-tester (You don't otherwise you would know and not need to link to a video) how are you going to set the correct opening pressure (do you even know what it is?). How are you going to test for back leakage and  dribble.

 

If any injectors have lost their pintles, inject at the wrong pressure, of dribble you will get white smoke. If the auxiliary spray holes are blocked it will make the engine more reluctant to cold start and that leads to white smoke for a while after cold starts.

 

If you intend to take the injectors out make sure the top hat heat shields do not come out on the injector and get lost, If any do come out get new sealing washers for them. Also fit new injector sealing copper washers and fish the crimped fire washer/atomization washers out form the bottom of the top hats and fit new. Your local injection specialist will overhaul the injectors for you and can probably supply all the washers.

[mtbvincent]

Thanks this is a clear message. I wil have them done by a proffersional 👌

When its ready and fitted back into the engine i will inform you guys.

Thanks for the feedback 🙌

 

[TNLI]

On 28/03/2022 at 11:16, Tracy D'arth said:

White smoke is unburnt fuel.

Either one cylinder is not firing or the timing is retarded or the pump is delivering too much fuel. If the later , take it back to where you got it.

 

The other remote possibility is that you introduced dirt into the fuel line and it has blocked one injector. Set a fast tick over and crack the injector pipes one at a time. If one cylinder shows less of a drop in revs than the others, that one is faulty/blocked/low compression.

I'm not saying what the smoke is, as you can get light grey smoke from burning oil or whitish smoke from head gasket failures. I had an injection pump for a Yanmar seize, and the smoke was black. I just sniff it, and then it's obvious if it is oil or fuel. 

  This article is a good one as regards smoke and it does list incorrect injection timing under no 3, the continuous light white smoke.

The 3 Causes of White Smoke From A Diesel And What To Do Next – Learn Diesels

 

OK, so wild guess, the injection timing is off, as it's rare for a professional company to fork up an injection pump rebuild. If an amateur using the special tools required to service a high pressure pump bought from a scrap yard, then yes that could also cause some real nasty white or even light grey smoke.

• Incorrect injection timing (Worn timing gear or damaged crankshaft keyway).

Edited March 29, 2022 by TNLI

[mtbvincent]

 The injectors are back and I am glad I brought them to the same person who did my fuel pump. He delivers professional and perfect work. He did a test and the injectors were bad. Sow he refurbished en adjusted them with new parts. Hopefully I can fit them next week because I am curious if my money and time eating Bmc has a full belly 😅

[TNLI]

Any chance of a link to the company that did the rebuild and the cost per injector ??

 

Hope that sorts out your problem, and for any other readers that might be thinking of getting their injectors checked, be careful as the majority of diesel injection specialists make good money from private boaters who bring in injectors that are either gummed up with varnish. (Most red diesel lacks any injection system lubricity or cleaner additives like the major brand road diesel includes). Most specialists then use their cleaner rig to dissolve the gum or varnish, (Some have a high tech ultra sound system to help dislodge hard varnish faster than acetone or other solvent). They then test the spray pattern is in fact OK. You then get billed for new tips, special cleaning, and all the fine adjustments. A nice little earner, as Dell Boy would say!

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, TNLI said:

(Most red diesel lacks any injection system lubricity or cleaner additives like the major brand road diesel includes)

 

More misinformation in most cases. May have been true years ago but unlikely now.

[Tracy D'arth]

49 minutes ago, TNLI said:

Any chance of a link to the company that did the rebuild and the cost per injector ??

 

Hope that sorts out your problem, and for any other readers that might be thinking of getting their injectors checked, be careful as the majority of diesel injection specialists make good money from private boaters who bring in injectors that are either gummed up with varnish. (Most red diesel lacks any injection system lubricity or cleaner additives like the major brand road diesel includes). Most specialists then use their cleaner rig to dissolve the gum or varnish, (Some have a high tech ultra sound system to help dislodge hard varnish faster than acetone or other solvent). They then test the spray pattern is in fact OK. You then get billed for new tips, special cleaning, and all the fine adjustments. A nice little earner, as Dell Boy would say!

Another load of incorrect info.

There is no difference other than tracer and dye between red and white diesel.

There is no "fine adjustments "process with injectors, merely setting the break off pressure by adjusting the spring cap.

 

[TNLI]

24 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

More misinformation in most cases. May have been true years ago but unlikely now.

I don't have time to find the link, TUV Sud the German inspection group do annual checks all over the EU of various problematic scams. They check injection shop specialist by asking them to check and repair what is in fact a new injector or HP pump, the figures are not good, The UK was not included in the last test, but the results for the rest of the main EU countries were very similar to those for car dealerships and quick lube companies who charge you for Castrol Edge, Mobil top of the range or Liqui Moly Synthoil, and then use a cheap dinosaur oil. even in Germany is was 25%, and France was 75% if you spoke to them in German. The injection shop figures were similar and that survey was only 2 years ago. The results for duff far eastern parts in new very good copied boxes at some dealerships, (Mostly VW), were nearly as bad until they nailed the company involved in a parts swap game that resulted in a serious number of warranty claims after the cam belts failed. If you are a local or account customer, they are far more careful, but the TUV inspectors are real clever as they always play the tourist when buying fake parts or being charged for work that was not done.

 

I don't think the type of tip on a BMC injector would be copied, as the market is too small for that to be an issue, but for very common cars that were made before common rail injectors were introduced, the cheap far Eastern injector tips or recon injectors are real bad news. They work perfectly for some time, but are made of cheap steel that corrodes very quickly if the engine is not run. That poor quality injector issue resulted in Yanmar in the US recommending its smaller diesels were run every week for a few minutes just to help stop all of the complaints their dealerships were getting from extended warranty customers. It was a parts in transit swap scam, where the container from a good company is opened up and all the parts swapped for cheap copies. The original parts are then sold to another customer after they have forged the boxes and paperwork.

[TNLI]

10 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Another load of incorrect info.

There is no difference other than tracer and dye between red and white diesel.

There is no "fine adjustments "process with injectors, merely setting the break off pressure by adjusting the spring cap.

 

TB might update you on the differences, and if you take a sample and post it off to an oil lab, (They do fuel analysis), then compare it with BP or Shell road diesel, you will know the truth. It is a different fuel in many important respects, and normally has no additives to help either the Sulphur related low lubricity, general dirt and water contents and lack of preventative cleaner additives that help keep the injection system clean. We have discussed that subject before, so I'm not going to copy all the tech articles again. Just send a sample off and learn the truth. Canal boats engines used at low power foul up their cylinders, but part of the issue is poor injector spray patterns making the problem worse. 

  

If you get forced into using red diesel, don't forget the gell point is often lower than major brand road diesel, so it's worth fitting fuel filter warmer pads or kits to stop the fuel filters waxing up if your engine bay is not heated in winter. Some suppliers of cheap red diesel mix in recycled vegetable oil which is very bad news. If In use red or marine diesel, I always pre filter it and add some top of the range additive to aid lubricity and cleaning additives, that are not included in any results I've seen for red or most more expensive marine diesel fuel.

  

[Tony Brooks]

I have just been on the Crown Oils website and it confirms the red diesel they supply in the UK for marine, agricultural and off road use is just dyed EN590 Derv - as Tracy & others have said.

 

Lower grade gas oil would seem to be available in other countries. it is also true that a wide boy outfit might import a tanker load of non EN590 gas oil and pass it of as EN590 gas oil but it is unlikely. It is also possible that people could pass off 32 second heating fuel as EN590 gas oil but how available it is in the UK I don't know.

 

The fact that non-EN590 gas oil may be available in Germany means any report from a German company needs treating with skepticism until you establish exactly what they have been testing.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[TNLI]

35 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I have just been on the Crown Oils website and it confirms the red diesel they supply in the UK for marine, agricultural and off road use is just dyed EN590 Derv - as Tracy & others have said.

 

Lower grade gas oil would seem to be available in other countries. it is also true that a wide boy outfit might import a tanker load of non EN590 gas oil and pass it of as EN590 gas oil but it is unlikely. It is also possible that people could pass off 32 second heating fuel as EN590 gas oil but how available it is in the UK I don't know.

 

The fact that non-EN590 gas oil may be available in Germany means any report from a German company needs treating with skepticism until you establish exactly what they have been testing.

The exact contents seems to vary from company to company, and with each batch of fuel. Often the more expensive companies sell better fuel, BUT it is pointless quoting what a company says, you have to live in the real world and get a 1 or 200 ml sample tested to see if it is what they claim. If you are talking about BP or Shell they include additives that are not required for a basic spec like you quoted. This reminds me of the daft which oil to use question is complicated due to the use of engine oil in the gearbox, everyone voiced an opinion that their favourite oil, none of which were relevant because they were brain washed by all the marketing and recommended by blurb into buying dumped Russian truck oil from a refinery in Bulgaria that does not include anything like enough detergent, zinc (DZZP) or BnN (Boron Nitride or other upper cylinder lubricant additive), to be a good diesel oil. 

  There is no point commenting about fuel if you can't list the additives from their web site. BP and Shell do list them, as do a few other major brand companies. They stick to maintaining the stated levels because clowns like me sometimes send off a sample to check if they are selling dodgy out of spec fuel. 

  If you have an engine that is run at too low a power setting, the fuel quality is far more important than fuel additives for an engine under a sensible load. Using a top of the range direct feed, (It's not an additive, it's an engine service product), injection system cleaner when you change the oil filter, (Dirty oil filters are far more efficient than clean ones), at say 200hrs, (With oil only changes at 100 hours for a good engine), really does keep the HP pump and injectors free from internal gum or injector tip varnish deposits. So I suppose if you use pre filtered red diesel, AND a diesel purge service product, then that might be OK, if you also add some Bio diesel, (Good lubricity additive).

[TNLI]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

I have just been on the Crown Oils website and it confirms the red diesel they supply in the UK for marine, agricultural and off road use is just dyed EN590 Derv - as Tracy & others have said.

 

Lower grade gas oil would seem to be available in other countries. it is also true that a wide boy outfit might import a tanker load of non EN590 gas oil and pass it of as EN590 gas oil but it is unlikely. It is also possible that people could pass off 32 second heating fuel as EN590 gas oil but how available it is in the UK I don't know.

 

The fact that non-EN590 gas oil may be available in Germany means any report from a German company needs treating with skepticism until you establish exactly what they have been testing.

The fuel available in Germany is far better than that in the UK!

[Tracy D'arth]

Tony, can we stop encouraging this idiot please?

 

If he is like crabs, and we ignore him long enough he may go away.

 

Or out to sea, hopefully.

[GUMPY]

5 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Tony, can we stop encouraging this idiot please?

 

If he is like crabs, and we ignore him long enough he may go away.

 

Or out to sea, hopefully.

You need Lyclear to get rid of crabs they don't go away on their own 🤭

[Tracy D'arth]

8 minutes ago, Loddon said:

You need Lyclear to get rid of crabs they don't go away on their own 🤭

Speaking from experience?  I thought it was paraffin.

[GUMPY]

43 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Speaking from experience?  I thought it was paraffin.

I dont think Lyclear existed 50+ years ago.

[mtbvincent]

Morning guys 

I did place the injectors and the engine runs smooth en sounds better.

Still got the white smoke 😤

 

The only thing i can do myself at this moment is adjust the fuel pump. 

Can you give me an idea about the timing and how much i can change the position of the pump?

For example, can i rotate it by 2/3 mm or should i even try 1 cm? 

 

[TNLI]

21 minutes ago, mtbvincent said:

Morning guys 

I did place the injectors and the engine runs smooth en sounds better.

Still got the white smoke 😤

 

The only thing i can do myself at this moment is adjust the fuel pump. 

Can you give me an idea about the timing and how much i can change the position of the pump?

For example, can i rotate it by 2/3 mm or should i even try 1 cm? 

 

Does it smell of diesel or oil ??

[Marko J]

White smoke can be due to the water leaks into the engine block or condensation in exhaust

[Tony Brooks]

35 minutes ago, Marko J said:

White smoke can be due to the water leaks into the engine block or condensation in exhaust

I think this is a wet exhaust boat so the white smoke could be steam caused by reduced output from the raw water pump. Air leak into the suction side, worn pump/impeller, blocked hose (often in an elbow), blocked heat exchange or oil cooler, furred up exhaust mixing elbow, or de-laminating/partially blocked exhaust hose.

[mtbvincent]

Thanks for the help guys,  something to think about. 

My impeller pump has been replaced last year, so this must be in good condition, the water pump of the engine is a couple of years ago.

 

Is there a way to check for malfunctions in the cooling system ?

Where should I start to work in a logical order?

 

[Tony Brooks]

29 minutes ago, mtbvincent said:

Thanks for the help guys,  something to think about. 

My impeller pump has been replaced last year, so this must be in good condition, the water pump of the engine is a couple of years ago.

 

Is there a way to check for malfunctions in the cooling system ?

Where should I start to work in a logical order?

 

If this smoke is indeed steam the problem will be in the raw water circuit so it is a question of comparing the volume of water issuing from your exhaust at varying speeds and power with another boat that is not suffering problems. If your bat is producing less water out the exhaust is noticeably making more of a hissing noise then you will need to start investigating in a logical order. A barking exhaust is often indicative of  alack of raw water flow.

 

It it is hissing this indicates a blockage in the exhaust hose which will probably be the exhaust hose delaminating inside and forming a sort of anti-flow valve or an idiot has left rag stuffed down the exhaust hose.

 

If it is not hissing but the water flow is lower or just a spray then the problem will be one or more of:

 

1. An air leak into the raw water suction side - that is raw water inlet to the pump. On most 1.5s this might include a lot of lift in the pump drive shaft. This will often initially show as a reluctance for the raw water to flow on startup until the engien is revved.

 

2. A worn pump body, cam, impeller, back plate, bearings, damaged or too thick a gasket, badly worn seals.

 

3. Blockage on the pump outlet circuit to include oil coolers, heat exchanger, furred up exhaust mixing elbow.

 

So you need to step through the system in a logical order but dong easier tests before more difficult ones. I would suggest something like this order:

 

Working from raw water inlet to the exhaust: Ensure nothing is sticking on the raw water inlet or if it has been heavily coated with paint.

Ensure the cap on the raw water strainer is properly sealing.

Check all the hose clips are tight and the hose below the clips still has some give in it and is not perished.

If there are any bends or elbows in the pipes and hoses check for something wedged across the bend etc.

If there is an oil cooler on the suction side either back flush it with a hose or take the end caps off so yo can "rod" the pipes in the core.

 

Now we are at the raw water pump. you may have done most of this.

 

Many 1.5s have a packed gland on the drive shaft so undo the nut and check the shaft for lift in the pump body and wear under the seal area. Fit a new seal if the pump has a packed seal.

Ensure the back plate has no grooves worn it it.

Check the impeller for wear/lost wings

Ensure nothing is jammed in the inlet or outlet ports and adapters.

 

Now we look at the pressure side of the raw water system.

 

Check all hoses and pipes as described for the inlet side to include for blockages in bends and elbows.

Treat the heat exchanger like the oil cooler but be aware on the 1.5 taking the rubber end caps off will release a lot of the engine coolant so maybe back flushing and ensuring a high water flow would be easier.

There may be a bypass valve so raw water is still supplied to the exhaust when the engine thermostat is closed. make sure it is not jammed or clogged.

 

That gets us to the exhaust mixing elbow.

 

Be aware that anything that creates back pressure in the exhaust will act against the raw water impeller and try to bend its wings away from the pump body so minimizing exhaust back pressure is important.

 

Remove the mixing elbow and descale it.

Take the exhaust hose off (probably two parts on your boat with a silencer between them), stretch it out so you can look through it. Look for damage to the inner lining, this is more likely to be close to the mixing elbow abut not always.

 

I think that is just about it but none of this will cure smoke, only steam

 

 

[mtbvincent]

Thanks for the time @Tony Brooks

When i have some news i will keep you updated 🤗