BMC 1.5 Oil with a lot of fuel in it.

[Tracy D'arth]

29 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Assuming there are no mistakes in the pump rebuild and setting then it has to be timing but whether its cam shaft timing (which it should not be unless the dilution caused excess wear) or pump timing I can't say. If you have not taken the skew gear out then that timing should still be OK.  I have explained a check for backlash in the camshaft drive and skew gear.

 

Smoke and oil on the water may well  take a time to stop because of the build up of fuel/oil in the exhaust. 

 

I can't say more but perhaps @Tracy D'arth could add some more.

 

We understand from another poster that it is not possible to assemble the shafts inside the pump incorrectly and thus mess the injection timing up.

 

There seems to be some unusual parts on your pump where the idle damper is usually fitted so I would say it is not a common 1.5 pump and I don't know what those parts are.

 

 

Is the guy who rebuilt the pump fully conversant with these DPA pumps?

 

You say new injector nozzles, are you sure that they are the correct ones, they are different from the Perkins ones but look almost the same. The BMC one are pinteaux  type with the tiny extra hole offset from the needle.

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Is the guy who rebuilt the pump fully conversant with these DPA pumps?

 

You say new injector nozzles, are you sure that they are the correct ones, they are different from the Perkins ones but look almost the same. The BMC one are pinteaux  type with the tiny extra hole offset from the needle.

 

Well done for the nozzle thing Tracy, that would explain a lot of the problems and those Perkins nozzles can break the top hat heat shields  lowering the compression with all that entails.

 

@Marko J Take the injectors out and you should see each nozzle has a small nipple in the centre where the pintle pokes out. Look around the side of the nipples with a magnifying glass and you should see a little sideways pointing hole. If there is no nipple or no hole then they are the wrong nozzles. For information, those small holes are to aid cold starting.

[mtbvincent]

34 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Assuming there are no mistakes in the pump rebuild and setting then it has to be timing but whether its cam shaft timing (which it should not be unless the dilution caused excess wear) or pump timing I can't say. If you have not taken the skew gear out then that timing should still be OK.  I have explained a check for backlash in the camshaft drive and skew gear.

 

Smoke and oil on the water may well  take a time to stop because of the build up of fuel/oil in the exhaust. 

 

I can't say more but perhaps @Tracy D'arth could add some more.

 

We understand from another poster that it is not possible to assemble the shafts inside the pump incorrectly and thus mess the injection timing up.

 

There seems to be some unusual parts on your pump where the idle damper is usually fitted so I would say it is not a common 1.5 pump and I don't know what those parts are.

 

 

Thanks @Tony Brooks  

I will set the timing of my fual pump a bit sooner and than i wil let it run for about 15 min or sow. 

Did not realize it takes a tim to dis-guard the oil in the exhaust system 🙈

Can you advise me about the stationary rpm? should i be setting it around 600 of more like 800 rpm. 

 

[Tony Brooks]

31 minutes ago, mtbvincent said:

Thanks @Tony Brooks  

I will set the timing of my fual pump a bit sooner and than i wil let it run for about 15 min or sow. 

Did not realize it takes a tim to dis-guard the oil in the exhaust system 🙈

Can you advise me about the stationary rpm? should i be setting it around 600 of more like 800 rpm. 

 

 

Depends upon if you have the marine flywheel or added bulk ring or the standard automotive one. In the latter case definitely 800 rpm but if you have the heavier flywheel or added bulk ring 600 rpm would be fine as long as it did not jump about in gear at idle. Be guided by the engine movement and vibration.

[mtbvincent]

Ai ai its getting confusing because Marko has put his pump-troubles in my thread 😅

Just to be safe i will place a picture of my fuel pump so you guys can judge.

 

[Marko J]

54 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Well done for the nozzle thing Tracy, that would explain a lot of the problems and those Perkins nozzles can break the top hat heat shields  lowering the compression with all that entails.

 

@Marko J Take the injectors out and you should see each nozzle has a small nipple in the centre where the pintle pokes out. Look around the side of the nipples with a magnifying glass and you should see a little sideways pointing hole. If there is no nipple or no hole then they are the wrong nozzles. For information, those small holes are to aid cold starting.

First of all, I'm sorry and apologize to Vincent and all other for entering the thread. I just saw similar trouble and thought it will be better to discuss about the same problem on one place. If it is better I will open other thread and continue there. Thanks to @Tony Brooks and @Tracy D'arth for comments,..now I have some direction to think and to do.  

http://shop.dtp-motorteile.de/en/art/DTP-10-058-MIG 

This was the order. I think, my mechanic cant be so bad to miss right nozzles  Mechanic was familiar with this and many similar Fuel pumps like this one. He works as a fuel pump specialists on heavy duty machines, tractors etc.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Marko J

[mtbvincent]

@Marko J Maybe its better to make a new thread off your problem. 

Its getting difficult for me and the replying members to know what we are talking about your engine ore mine 😅

I hope we both learn end get our problems resolved 💪 

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, Marko J said:

First of all, I'm sorry and apologize to Vincent and all other for entering the thread. I just saw similar trouble and thought it will be better to discuss about the same problem on one place. If it is better I will open other thread and continue there. 

http://shop.dtp-motorteile.de/en/art/DTP-10-058-MIG 

This was the order. I think, my mechanic cant be so bad to miss right nozzles  Mechanic was familiar with this and many similar Fuel pumps like this one. He works as a fuel pump specialists on heavy duty machines, tractors etc.

 

A quick Google throws up a result that says it is a standard pintle nozzle - NOT a pintaux, that indicates your mechanic may may be so bad. This is a far from uncommon mistake these days.

 

You need pintaux nozzles

[Tracy D'arth]

9 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

A quick Google throws up a result that says it is a standard pintle nozzle - NOT a pintaux, that indicates your mechanic may may be so bad. This is a far from uncommon mistake these days.

 

You need pintaux nozzles

Ooops, got it wrong way round again. I'm getting worse as I get older.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

Ooops, got it wrong way round again. I'm getting worse as I get older.

 

You did say he needed pintaux nozzles. I googles the nozzle part number from his link and it definitely said pintle but now we have the photos we know he has pintaux nozzles.

[Tracy D'arth]

10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

You did say he needed pintaux nozzles. I googles the nozzle part number from his link and it definitely said pintle but now we have the photos we know he has pintaux nozzles.

The trouble with Perkins injectors is that they look the same but they are fractionally longer which is why they smash the top hats and they have the wrong nozzles usually.

This error has been made by some very experienced fitters over the years.

[mtbvincent]

@Tony Brooks @Tracy D'arth The nozzles of Marco where the wrong ones! thanks to your advice he can now order the correct ones 😃

 

My problems are here to stay i think 😰

Question to you guys, 

Is it possible my engine runs different after fitting a fresh rebuild pump?

*Is there more pressure what can cause it to run different than before?

Should i start replacing the nozzles as well?

 

Greetings Vincent 

 

 

 

[john.k]

I d suggest that  while the motor is running,you crack each fuel line nut just enough to drip fuel,and leave it like tht for a minute or so,,then nip it up........do this in turn for each injector,and any air will be eliminated .......you may see froth in the fuel as it leaks..........tiny motors have tiny fuel delivery ,and are quite difficult to bleed ,even a trace of air in the lines will upset injection.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, mtbvincent said:

@Tony Brooks @Tracy D'arth The nozzles of Marco where the wrong ones! thanks to your advice he can now order the correct ones 😃

 

My problems are here to stay i think 😰

Question to you guys, 

Is it possible my engine runs different after fitting a fresh rebuild pump?

*Is there more pressure what can cause it to run different than before?

Should i start replacing the nozzles as well?

 

Greetings Vincent 

 

 

According to another member (JohnK I think) you can't misalign the two shafts that slot together inside the pump so it is impossible to get the drive shaft and the rotor mistimed to each other. All that leaves for the rebuilder to mess up is the advance retard, but I can't see that making a huge difference to normal running once it has started, and the maximum fuel delivery. However as most diesels alter the fuel delivery to alter the speed a mistake with that adjustment would either limit the maximum speed/power if  the delivery is too little or allow the engine to exceed it maximum rated power/speed. It can't cause bad running. The advance-retard may make it more difficult to start from cold but once started I would expect it t be fine. Timing the pump to the engine is more critical.

 

You need the correct nozzles so if they are wrong change them.

 

Something seems odd with the story about the injectors because if you diesel man changed them he should have reset them and checked the back leakage, dribble, and spray pattern. I don't see how having done all that he can claim the nozzles are poor quality. If you changed the nozzles without the equipment to set them up then they need setting up to the correct opening pressure and testing for dribble, leak-back and spray pattern.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[mtbvincent]

Unfortunately the post of a other member keeps haunting me 😅

I did not replace or change anything about the injectors.

 

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, mtbvincent said:

Unfortunately the post of a other member keeps haunting me 😅

I did not replace or change anything about the injectors.

 

Sorry, just ignore the bit about the nozzles. It is the injectors that set the pressure, not the pump so as long as the injectors are set up properly then the maximum pressure will be as set. If the pump is exceptionally worn then it might not produce enough pressure to open the injectors so the engine would not run. However that should have been found when the pump was set up, except I think you changed your own seal so probably could not put it on a test bench, but if all you did was pull the drive shaft out, change the seal and the refit the shaft i don't see how it would run any differently to what it was doing before. You did not mess with the injection part of the pump.

[mtbvincent]

Thanks a million for your patience and the efford you and other members take to help me out 🙌

 

Ok the part of the injectors sounds logical, and before everything worked fine..  so no need to just replacing it now. 

 

I have a picture of the parts that have been replaced it seems to me its very complete and correct.

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

You appear to have the cam ring and rollers in amongst that lot and in my and I think probably @Tracy D'arth's view that is not a diy job. The maximum delivery stop for the plungers needs setting and testing so if a pump shop did it all should be good to go.

[Tracy D'arth]

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

You appear to have the cam ring and rollers in amongst that lot and in my and I think probably @Tracy D'arth's view that is not a diy job. The maximum delivery stop for the plungers needs setting and testing so if a pump shop did it all should be good to go.

I have never taken one down that far. I always thought that they would need setting up on the rig so I left it to the specialists. Fortunately I knew some good guys who did the job right and never charged me other than what I considered was a fair amount.

[mtbvincent]

The next step i will take will be next year.

 

I've gathered some more information and the next thing to check is going to be the timing. 

There is a small.. Small possibility that the axle of the injector pump (inside the engine) has come out of place when i took off the pump.

I don't think its possible however it needs to be checked!   

 

For now...

I would like to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

[Tony Brooks]

6 hours ago, mtbvincent said:

The next step i will take will be next year.

 

I've gathered some more information and the next thing to check is going to be the timing. 

There is a small.. Small possibility that the axle of the injector pump (inside the engine) has come out of place when i took off the pump.

I don't think its possible however it needs to be checked!   

 

For now...

I would like to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

 

 

If you only took the pump off and left the triangular mounting plate on the engine (I think slides onto the three studs and is retained by a countersunk machine screw) there is no way you could have pulled the skew gear drive shaft (axle) out of the engine. Therefore the only way the timing could alter is if the skew gear are badly worn or if the timing chain is badly worn or has jumped a tooth. As it was running OK before you took the pump off I can't see it is any of those things. Stick a big screwdriver into the drive shaft (axle) female splines and twist both ways to assess the backlash. There should be very little.

[mtbvincent]

Greetings everyone 😃 back at it again.

Last year I replaced the injection pump because it was leaking inward to the oil pan.

After this repair the engine doesn’t run a nice as I wish, It smokes more than usual..

The timing of the fuel pump is correct.

 

Is it possible that the fuel pressure is stronger and my injectors are leaking/dripping?

 

Can you guys advise me to replace something or is there something i am missing??

Hope someone knows a way to help me out. 

[Tracy D'arth]

Pump delivery incorrectly set. Take it back.

[mtbvincent]

Thanks for te repley , I did ajust the pump a bit something like 2 maybe 3 mm left and right. 

Did not realy make a diffrence. 

How far should i go i did not go as far a 4mm ore more...

This is the current setting on the picture. 

[Tracy D'arth]

White smoke is unburnt fuel.

Either one cylinder is not firing or the timing is retarded or the pump is delivering too much fuel. If the later , take it back to where you got it.

 

The other remote possibility is that you introduced dirt into the fuel line and it has blocked one injector. Set a fast tick over and crack the injector pipes one at a time. If one cylinder shows less of a drop in revs than the others, that one is faulty/blocked/low compression.