Phoenix_V Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/966132/Summary_of_responses_to_the_red_diesel_consultation.pdf 4.6Following consultation, the government has decided to maintain the entitlement to use red diesel beyond April 2022 for all commercial boat operating industries, including but not limited to the fishing and inland water freight industries. 4.7The government has therefore decided not to change the treatment of private pleasure craft in Great Britain, where they will continue to be able to use red diesel and pay their fuel supplier the difference between the red diesel rate and the white diesel rate on the proportion they intend to use for propulsion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 There is a thread all about this from Wandering Snail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 Well whoopee. I'm completely underwhelmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix_V Posted March 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said: There is a thread all about this from Wandering Snail sorry for some reason I missed that i'm going to report myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas C King Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 Not a bonus for the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thomas C King said: Not a bonus for the environment. Why? Is red diesel worse for the environment than white diesel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas C King Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Athy said: Why? Is red diesel worse for the environment than white diesel? Cheaper fossil fuels will impede the development and uptake of more expensive and environmentally friendly alternatives. The environment cost that will come to bear, must therefore be brought forward to the present. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thomas C King said: Cheaper fossil fuels will impede the development and uptake of more expensive and environmentally friendly alternatives. The environment cost that will come to bear, must therefore be brought forward to the present. Have you read the original proposals and the decisions ? The price would have been the same had we gone to 'white'. "Boating Red" is no cheaper than "Boating White" except where suppliers would try and recoup their infrstaructure costs if any was needed. Staying with Red, is actually a positive gain for the Environment as boaters will not be trying to fill up their tanks from cans and spilling fuel into the Canals & Rivers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas C King Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, Alan de Enfield said: Have you read the original proposals and the decisions ? The price would have been the same had we gone to 'white'. "Boating Red" is no cheaper than "Boating White" except where suppliers would try and recoup their infrstaructure costs if any was needed. Staying with Red, is actually a positive gain for the Environment as boaters will not be trying to fill up their tanks from cans and spilling fuel into the Canals & Rivers. That's a false dichotomy, I see no reason why fuel boats and marinas can't sell white but happy to be shown wrong. I know of the original proposals, the new one seems to be that red is cheaper than white? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, Thomas C King said: Cheaper fossil fuels will impede the development and uptake of more expensive and environmentally friendly alternatives. The environment cost that will come to bear, must therefore be brought forward to the present. But seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady M Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 Of course, the Brexit bonus I think we had originally hoped for was the discontinuation of the additional duty on diesel used for propulsion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Staying with Red, is actually a positive gain for the Environment as boaters will not be trying to fill up their tanks from cans and spilling fuel into the Canals & Rivers. I think that is a major point 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas C King Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Athy said: But seriously? Yes, seriously? Unless there are some complex economics, on first glance cheaper fossil fuels are not a good thing, whether it's a cost reduction on the supply chain or the consumer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Thomas C King said: That's a false dichotomy, I see no reason why fuel boats and marinas can't sell white but happy to be shown wrong. I know of the original proposals, the new one seems to be that red is cheaper than white? Who is suggesting that the 'new' proposals result in lower cost diesel? If you have read the original consultation papers you will have noted that : The current method is that 'all' diesel is at reduced duty rate, but that which is purchased for propulsion has duty added to it. The proposal was for 'all' diesel would be at a full duty rate and a reduction down to the reduced duty rate would be applied to fuel used for domestic use. You achive the same pricing by two differing methods. Propulsion diesel is charged at full duty in both scenarios, domestic use diesel is charged at the rebated rate in both scenarios. There was a possibility that the VAT rate could have been increased if the 'decision' had gone to white, but that was never widely discussed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas C King Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Who is suggesting that the 'new' proposals result in lower cost diesel? If you have read the original consultation papers you will have noted that : The current method is that 'all' diesel is at reduced duty rate, but that which is purchased for propulsion has duty added to it. The proposal was for 'all' diesel would be at a full duty rate and a reduction down to the reduced duty rate would be applied to fuel used for domestic use. You achive the same pricing by two differing methods. Propulsion diesel is charged at full duty in both scenarios, domestic use diesel is charged at the rebated rate in both scenarios. There was a possibility that the VAT rate could have been increased if the 'decision' had gone to white, but that was never widely discussed. Oh fair enough then, I'm wrong, thanks for the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard10002 Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 49 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Have you read the original proposals and the decisions ? The price would have been the same had we gone to 'white'. "Boating Red" is no cheaper than "Boating White" except where suppliers would try and recoup their infrstaructure costs if any was needed. Staying with Red, is actually a positive gain for the Environment as boaters will not be trying to fill up their tanks from cans and spilling fuel into the Canals & Rivers. I actually thought that someone would come back to tell me that there was more to it than that, e.g. that the new rule would have meant that the heating relief would have been removed but, if I'm reading you correctly, it's just the colour? 44 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: I think that is a major point It's actually a ridiculous point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady M Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 As VAT on red diesel is 5% but it is 20% on white diesel, there should be some saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 29 minutes ago, Lady C said: As VAT on red diesel is 5% but it is 20% on white diesel, there should be some saving. But the VAT on domestic use would have been 5%. There was never (that I have seen) any discussions about the VAT implicatiosns (as I mentioned earlier) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 35 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: But the VAT on domestic use would have been 5%. There was never (that I have seen) any discussions about the VAT implicatiosns (as I mentioned earlier) But we got away with the 5% VAT on propulsion as well as domestic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, ditchcrawler said: But we got away with the 5% VAT on propulsion as well as domestic. We shouldn't have done, but we did and probably still will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Thomas C King said: Yes, seriously? Unless there are some complex economics, on first glance cheaper fossil fuels are not a good thing, whether it's a cost reduction on the supply chain or the consumer. Makes my diesel cheap.... That;s all I care about....nothing else matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHutch Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 21 hours ago, ditchcrawler said: There is a thread all about this from Wandering Snail Please see above thread. I will now lock this one rather than merge is that is ok with people. Thanks Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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