Alan de Enfield Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 Just now, blackrose said: That must be the date of manufacture? I installed the system in 2006 I think. They must be the original ones! ? Still, even if you assume no degradation whilst in storage, it's still 14 years. Should really be considering changing them (and the regulators) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) New kit order placed x 2. Thanks for everyone's help Edited January 9, 2021 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, blackrose said: New kit order placed x 2. Thanks for everyone's help Have you checked the flow rate is compatible (4kg) with the existing ones ? I once bought one that was much cheaper than the others to find out it has a very low flow rate and wouldn't work everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said: My error, I was so taken aback by pete.i's comment that I rushed a reply. Did my reply seem "inflamatory" to anyone else? Odd really because the freezing point of butane is higher than propane. Stands to reason when you think about it. No I didn’t. But as usual it is the trouble with interpretation of the written word. If you committed any crime it was perhaps a paucity of words. The fewer the words, and words not wrapped up in niceties, the easier it is to put an unintended interpretation on it. I don’t know if you and he have “history” but if not, he was just having a bad day. But then equally, I get criticism for being too verbose! Sometime you just can’t win! Edited January 9, 2021 by nicknorman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Have you checked the flow rate is compatible (4kg) with the existing ones ? I once bought one that was much cheaper than the others to find out it has a very low flow rate and wouldn't work everything. Thanks, just checked. Yes it's the same 4kg/h. Do the ones I've ordered look ok? Is COK1 a known manufacturer or cheap crap? Edited January 9, 2021 by blackrose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, blackrose said: Do the ones I've ordered look ok? Is COK1 a known manufacturer or cheap crap? Never heard of them - but I get mine from a 'Calor' dealer to avoid any problems with incompatabilty (probably wouldn't ever be, but if one of the caravans burst into fire and someone was killed I wouldn't want it to because I'd save'd a quid on a gas regulator - and given the insurers wriggle-room). Edited January 9, 2021 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 46 minutes ago, blackrose said: Is COK1 a known manufacturer or cheap crap? I suspect it's a product code for Change Over Kit 1 Not a manufacturer's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said: I suspect it's a product code for Change Over Kit 1 Not a manufacturer's name. Oh, well done! I wouldn't have even thought of that. Well, it says it EN12864 approved, although that standard may have been superseded. https://landingpage.bsigroup.com/LandingPage/Undated?UPI=000000000030189573 Calor is out of stock of that manual changeover valve and they don't even say what test standard theirs is approved to in their specs? https://appliances.calor.co.uk/essentials-propane-37mbar-4kg-manual-changeover-valve-kit.html Edited January 9, 2021 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 On 09/01/2021 at 11:52, blackrose said: Will an inspector be able to use the test point if there is bubble tester just downstream? Can anyone tell me the answer to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, blackrose said: Can anyone tell me the answer to this? Yes. When a bubble tester hasn't got the button pressed it's essentially a pipe, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 12 hours ago, TheBiscuits said: Yes. When a bubble tester hasn't got the button pressed it's essentially a pipe, nothing more. Ok yes that makes sense. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) I've got my new regulators and found they are Continental brand made by DHP India. Are the top and base of all regulators crimped like this? They look ok but state not to be used on boats! Before I return them for a refund, do all manufacturers of LPG regulators state this in the small print? Edited January 16, 2021 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) Can anyone recommend a supplier or manufacturer of regulators which are suitable for installation on boats? The only manual changeover valve/regulator that I can see on the Calor Marine Shop website is only 30mb. These instructions are for the ones I've just bought so I'll return them for a refund. My existing 15 year old regulators were manufactured to BS3016 - I'm not sure if they were designed with boats and caravans in mind as it doesn't say anything in the instructions? Edited January 16, 2021 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) Have you looked at BES? https://www.bes.co.uk Im sure they could advise if any of their products specifically exclude use on boats. In the case of the one you already bought, the boat exclusion is probably because in places like India, there is no BSS and probably no perceived need for a gas locker. But it does look a little bit cheap and nasty! Yes the tops and bottoms are crimped together, but I think it is usually done a bit more neatly and comprehensively than your photo shows. Edited January 16, 2021 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) Thanks, I'm finding this really confusing. The Calor Shop website states: Regulators should be Manufactured to European Standard 12867 which is now required for caravans and motor homes built to EN1949. This kit is on the BES website but it looks like it doesn't comply and isn't meant for installation on boats? https://www.bes.co.uk/lpg-manual-changeover-kit-propane-12679/ I actually wouldn't be surprised if this BES one is exactly the same as the ones I've just bought, just more expensive. Edited January 16, 2021 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 I have heard of regulators being bought from chandlers, specifically Calcutt, and still being marked "not for use on boats" so I would not be concerned about that. It may have something to do with bottle inversion putting liquid into the regulator but unless you capsize that is never going to happen in a canal boat. There was a query some time ago about the outlet of some regulators not being a BSP thread so its worth checking that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) ISO 10329 which is the part of the RCD relating to LPG installations on small craft, only has this to say. so I take from that that it’s not a requirement for the regulator to meet any specific published standard. And in any case, it’s not a requirement to meet this ISO on an older boat. Edited January 16, 2021 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, nicknorman said: so I take from that that it’s not a requirement for the regulator to meet any specific published standard. It's probably cheaper and easier to just buy one that meets EN 12864:2001, Annex M or EN 13786 than roll your own compliant system though. (see the footnote in your image) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) EN 12864 mentioned above, now replaced by EN 16129. EN 13786 is about auto-changeover devices. Edited January 16, 2021 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, nicknorman said: ISO 10329 which is the part of the RCD relating to LPG installations on small craft, only has this to say. Thanks for that. So the regulators I've bought have a different EN number, although they may exceed EN 12864, I've really no idea. Anyway I don't like the crimped body so they're going back. 1 hour ago, nicknorman said: EN 12864 mentioned above, now replaced by EN 16129. EN 13786 is about auto-changeover devices. Ok, you've answered that too - thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, nicknorman said: ISO 10329 which is the part of the RCD relating to LPG installations on small craft, only has this to say. so I take from that that it’s not a requirement for the regulator to meet any specific published standard. And in any case, it’s not a requirement to meet this ISO on an older boat. The reason ‘normal’ regulators are marked ‘not for boats’ is I think to do with section 5.2 above. Specifically the need to have an ‘over pressure’ device to prevent high pressure gas entering the boat gas system should the regulator fail. Though from memory the bss does not require this, though it is law for certain salty water boats. something like this - https://gasproducts.co.uk/gas-regulators/marine-gas-regulators/gasboat-marine-30mbar-gas-regulator-bulkhead.html you can see the gas escape port at 12 o’clock Edited January 16, 2021 by Chewbacka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Chewbacka said: The reason ‘normal’ regulators are marked ‘not for boats’ is I think to do with section 5.2 above. Specifically the need to have an ‘over pressure’ device to prevent high pressure gas entering the boat gas system should the regulator fail. Though from memory the bss does not require this, though it is law for certain salty water boats. So I assume all boats fitted out in compliance with the RCD rather than the BSS would have an overpressure device in the gas locker? With LPG on boats being such a potentially hazardous issue, one would have thought that information relating to compliance of systems would have been made clear and easy to find! I'm amazed how difficult it is to get clear and accurate information. Edited January 16, 2021 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, blackrose said: So I assume all boats fitted out in compliance with the RCD rather than the BSS would have an overpressure device in the gas locker? If they claim compliance with the iso std then yes, though I would have to check the iso std to see if Inland waterways boats are exempt. But even if there is no exemption, and as the marine regulator costs about double, and as narrowboats are self certified then I can only guess........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, blackrose said: Though from memory the bss does not require this, though it is law for certain salty water boats. Never heard that before, do you have any reference, or, is it simply RCD compliance ? (which doesn't apply to commercial boats) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Alan, I'm not sure how you've managed to quote Chewbacka but show it as a quote from me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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