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iank246

Kabola OD4 Help!

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Hello everyone, new to the site.

I have recently bought a Kabola OD4 diesel drip feed heater but i am constantly  getting a yellow flame. I have thoroughly cleaned it out including the flue. i've even had the regulator open and cleaned all parts but still yellow flame... i am now thinking that the catalyst may need changing but how do you know when these actually need replacing? it's all nice and clean though it is permanently red-ish. it seems like such a simple piece that i can't figure out how a new one could possibly be any better. Any advice would be much appreciated! 

thanks 

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Note the bit about the small holes behind the large holes

 

 

 

Edited by Loddon

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1 hour ago, iank246 said:

Hello everyone, new to the site.

I have recently bought a Kabola OD4 diesel drip feed heater but i am constantly  getting a yellow flame. I have thoroughly cleaned it out including the flue. i've even had the regulator open and cleaned all parts but still yellow flame... i am now thinking that the catalyst may need changing but how do you know when these actually need replacing? it's all nice and clean though it is permanently red-ish. it seems like such a simple piece that i can't figure out how a new one could possibly be any better. Any advice would be much appreciated! 

thanks 

 

What setting on the Toby oil control valve are youn using?

 

Even with everything opersting perfectly it is not possible to maintain a blue flame above setting 4, because on a narrowboat the flue is just not long enough.

 

If after cleaning the small holes in the burner pot, paying special attention to tne difficult tp reach ones at the very bottom, you are still getting acyellow flame, then the "high flame" setting probzbly nesds adjusting.

 

Let us know how you get on, and if necessary I will advise on how to adjust the high flame setting.

 

 

Edited by cuthound
Phat phingers

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As long as it is in one piece, the catalyser  should never need changing. It is only there to maintain a consistent high temperature across the pot to enable vaporising. As Cuthound says, the holesin the pot need to be clean, and it is important that the seals round the top of the pot and round the door and flue are sound. Any leaks above the flame will reducethe draw through the pot. and give a yellow flame.

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thanks for the replies everyone, i'm still having a lot of trouble with all this now and it's driving me nuts!. i am new to these stoves and never seen what they should actually be like. at present hardly any fuel is entering the chamber, just getting a small dirty flame near the soot scrapper. i've cleaned EVERYTHING. something must be off with the regulator but i haven't a clue what 

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Disconnect the pipework out of the Toby valve. Measure the outflow. You should get about 4cc per min on low setting, and 13cc/min on high. A teaspoon is 5cc. or you can get a measure from the chemists. It is best to let it drip for a couple of minutes before you measure, and measure 2 minutes of fuel and divide by 2.

If you still only have a dribble, then the metering column is probably obscured. This is positioned above the outlet port and held in by a spring. The slot is very fine and should be cleaned with something like a polypropylene quill from a brush.

If you have a good flow from that port, then the feed pipe needs a clean. A thin electrical cable does the job, although you may need to poke out the pipe at the burner end particularly where it meets the decoking lever.

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I used to get this problem when my fuel tank was low as the base of the tank was at the same level as the valve and there was 25ft of pipe leading to the valve. It was ok when full as there was a 3+ft head but when almost empty it could be down to a couple of inches or so.

I assume you do have a decent  flow to the valve.

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5 hours ago, Loddon said:

I used to get this problem when my fuel tank was low as the base of the tank was at the same level as the valve and there was 25ft of pipe leading to the valve. It was ok when full as there was a 3+ft head but when almost empty it could be down to a couple of inches or so.

I assume you do have a decent  flow to the valve.

I  assumed, maybe  wrongly, that after 4 weeks, that the OP would have checked the obvious. 

I remember fitting a Bubble in a boat, and when I removed the plug from the bottom of the tank to insert an on/off valve, my preparations for the expected spill were not needed. The customer did have a homebrew barrel of diesel which he subsequently put in, but that hardly fed the centre placed stove. I had a few calls about it not working and each time it was established there was fuel shortage. I heard no more from the man after he called and asked how to bleed a Barrus Shire after running out of diesel. I don't think my reply of putting your hand in your back pocket and calling in the local boatyard. The real worrying aspect was that he was at Worcester, on the river, having travelled down from Stourport in a strong flow

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okay so i've completely stripped down the toby valve giving everything a thorough clean, fuel tank full and fuel reaching the toby valve. fill switch clicked and toby valve reservoir fills with fuel, float comes up and un-clicks the 'switch', fuel is reaching the burn pot but very slowly. I light it with a couple caps of meths to get it warm and turn the regulator main valve to first position. The pre-heating with meths seems to help the fuel flow. After a while i get steady yellow flame with flames being sucked through all the holes of the burn chamber creating one flame in centre. seems like the catalyst is working right. BUT, flame is pretty much always yellow and i can't seem to turn the flame up or down (waited a good 30mins for any differences). i just get a constant medium yellow flame. when i turn the main switch off (and i added a second in-line on-off valve to the fuel line just before the burner pot) it takes ages for the flame to even begin to die out. seems to take over 45 mins for the flame to go out with absolutely no fuel getting to the pot as both valves are off. 

so i have couple questions...:

- isn't the flame suppose to be blue?

- how long is it suppose to take to go out?

- is the flame control suppose to be this vague as i just seem to have one setting?

- is it normal for it to smell of diesel (even when i have sealed every possible leak gap with gasket sealant)?

- is it normal to be getting a vapour coming out of the scraper barrel?

- how do you make proper adjustments to the high/low flame setting? (it may have been way off when i bought it so i have no idea of how it should be)

- when these are properly working, any idea of how much they are worth?

Your help is MUCH appreciated!!

thanks!!

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just Been back to check on it, switched it off 1 1/2 hours ago and it's still going!

seem to have a stove that defies logic. There is no fuel getting to the pot, i've switched off the toby valve and switched off the valve that i put in the fuel line just before the scraper pot, also turned off the valve on the fuel tank but yet she still burns. there isnt even a pool of fuel at the bottom of the chamber, it looks dry. What??

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11 hours ago, iank246 said:

okay so i've completely stripped down the toby valve giving everything a thorough clean, fuel tank full and fuel reaching the toby valve. fill switch clicked and toby valve reservoir fills with fuel, float comes up and un-clicks the 'switch', fuel is reaching the burn pot but very slowly. I light it with a couple caps of meths to get it warm and turn the regulator main valve to first position. The pre-heating with meths seems to help the fuel flow. After a while i get steady yellow flame with flames being sucked through all the holes of the burn chamber creating one flame in centre. seems like the catalyst is working right. BUT, flame is pretty much always yellow and i can't seem to turn the flame up or down (waited a good 30mins for any differences). i just get a constant medium yellow flame. when i turn the main switch off (and i added a second in-line on-off valve to the fuel line just before the burner pot) it takes ages for the flame to even begin to die out. seems to take over 45 mins for the flame to go out with absolutely no fuel getting to the pot as both valves are off. 

so i have couple questions...:

- isn't the flame suppose to be blue?

- how long is it suppose to take to go out?

- is the flame control suppose to be this vague as i just seem to have one setting?

- is it normal for it to smell of diesel (even when i have sealed every possible leak gap with gasket sealant)?

- is it normal to be getting a vapour coming out of the scraper barrel?

- how do you make proper adjustments to the high/low flame setting? (it may have been way off when i bought it so i have no idea of how it should be)

- when these are properly working, any idea of how much they are worth?

Your help is MUCH appreciated!!

thanks!!

Hi,

 

A few pics would be helpful, my OD4, starts 'going out' a few minutes after the knob has been turned to the off position. A blue flame is  best and I find that in normal operation settings 1 to 3 are only needed, anything above 2 introduces too much oil into the burner pot and results in orange flames.

 

 You  state you have 'taken the Toby Valve apart- adjusted the oil flow screws?, not recommended..........which type of Toby Valve do you have? - photo would help. Really all you need to do with the valve is to clean the filter. Have you cleaned the copper pipe twix Valve and scraper?

 

How much is it worth - not a lot - spares are difficult to get.

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It does sound as though too much fuel is getting into the burner pot.

 

Have you cleaned the small holes under the rim at the bottom of the burner pot? These (and all other holes in the burner pot must be scrupulously clean before adjusting the fuel flow.

 

If all burner pot holes are clean, then the next step is to turn down the "high flame" screw to reduce the fuel flow.

 

To do this turn it clockwise in quarter turn increments, waiting 15 minutes forthe flame to settle between adjustments.

 

This should result in a blue flame.

 

I agreed with Leo, anything above setting 3 results in an increasingly yellow flame.

 

My OD4 stops burning with 10 minutes of turning the Toby valve off.

 

No vapour should come out of the scraper. Is the fit tight or loose?

 

It should have a slight resistance when pushed in and out. Tightening the nut on the outer sleeve increases pressure on the O ring and increases tightness.

Edited by cuthound
To add the last paragraph

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Post #47 in this thread shows my flame on settings 1-5, to give you an idea of what flame colour and size you should be getting.

 

 

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I would suggest that there is too little fuel getting to the pot and it burns yellow because there is not enough to get the burner hot enough to vaporise. Also I think there must be a problem with the rebuilt Toby valve and it is permanently passing if the unit is still burning 2 hours after turning it off. 

What is the valve you have installed between the scraper and the Toby?

Did you measure the flow out of the valve as I previously described? Without knowing how much oil is coming into the pot, you don' stand a cat in hell's chance of moving forward

These units are basically simple, but you need to follow the prescribed checks meticulously and with PATIENCE. Any adjustments to the flow rates should only be made after the pot has reached a working temperature and then only at about a 1/4 turn at a time with at least a 5-10 minute interval between adjustments.

I also am assuming you have a good airtight seal around the pot and the base, and also round the door and sight glass and flue spigot, together with a reasonable height of flue.

Edited by Ex Brummie

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Okay so i've made some progress! been a nightmare this to be honest but feel like i'm getting somewhere now. Many thanks for all your replies, the info from 'Ex Brummie' on the flow rates was very usefull!. i've got it to drip at 4cc per min on low setting and about 13cc per min on high. it lights well, is yellow at first but once proper temperature is reached it now remains a mainly blue steady flame. i've been fiddling with that toby for days, finally feel like i understand how it all works now. However, it's still taking a long time to turn off and i really can't figure out why. it doesnt seem to be flooding and the toby valve doesnt drip when turned to off so i can't understand why it takes so long to go out, talking over half an hour at least. if anyone has any idea why it would be much appreciated. but at least for the moment, i have a heater! 

Also, for anyone who finds this thread looking for info on drip feed stoves, these are the most useful things i found online: 

https://www.harworthheating.co.uk/documents/Technical/Efel %26 Harmony Range/TB115 Toby Oil Control Valve Low Res.pdf

https://manualzz.com/doc/18246608/o.c.i-valve-issue-1-©-www.oilstoves.co.uk--tech-docs-3

 

 

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6 minutes ago, iank246 said:

However, it's still taking a long time to turn off and i really can't figure out why. it doesnt seem to be flooding and the toby valve doesnt drip when turned to off so i can't understand why it takes so long to go out,

Fuel soaked into carbon deposit  ?

They have to be spotlessly clean.

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would seem about 30-45 mins. i raised up the toby valve by about 2" higher as it seemed too low for gravity to push the fuel up the soot scraper to the burner pot. would this be effecting it?, i thought the fuel supply would be cut anyway but the main control knob. 

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There is your problem.  The oil depth is too great. Normally you would only expect an oil depth of about 15-20mm. When you turn the fuel off, you still have the head in the supply line until the levels balance out in the pot and valve.

Excessive depth also explains the poor flame pattern.

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Thanks again!, Would this stove work in a campervan?, i assumed it would be fine handling motion seeing as it is designed for boats but do these stoves need to be perfectly level to work or is there some allowance?. 

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11 hours ago, iank246 said:

Thanks again!, Would this stove work in a campervan?, i assumed it would be fine handling motion seeing as it is designed for boats but do these stoves need to be perfectly level to work or is there some allowance?. 

 

They were originally designed for fishing boats, so should be ok with movement.

 

The Kabola range of oil drip stoves is no longer made, but Hartlepool Marine sell the very similar Refleks range.

 

http://www.nauticalworld.co.uk/

 

I would ask them regarding fitting one in a vehicle.

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I wouldn't be too happy with one of these in a moving camper van. It would be subject to G force effects that you would not normally encounter in a marine environment, and although used in fishing boats, I would have thought too much pitching/tossing/rolling would activate the float trip.

On the other hand, if you are only going to use it in a static condition, then it should work, although you would need to look hard at the flue possibilities.

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