Lister ST3 rebuild

[RussellBa]

Hello all

 

It looks like my latest ST3 needs a major overhaul, in your opinion can this be carried out using the 4 spammers Lister in the parts manual or will a socket set be more use.

 

Thanks.

[OldGoat]

Spammers are notoriously unreliable and best ignored.  When I worked with old engines, I found a mix of spaNNers and sockets were best.

Can you still get imperial open ended and ring spanners?

There are some occasions where a ring spanner end five you the best of both worlds.

Edited August 23, 2020 by OldGoat

[RussellBa]

I've found open ended spammers the worst never seem to get rid of them. As for spanners the are still available, apparently the ST3 used to come with for of them.

[Tracy D'arth]

Air wrench and a good socket set plus combination spanners.

[Steve56]

Torque wrench as its quite important on these engines to pull the heads down evenly to ensure there are no leaks on the head gasket and shims.

[Tony Brooks]

17 minutes ago, Steve56 said:

Torque wrench as its quite important on these engines to pull the heads down evenly to ensure there are no leaks on the head gasket and shims.

and the knowledge and skills that go with engine rebuilding. Bump clearance? When  and how do you tighten the manifold and head nuts and so on.

[Steve56]

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

and the knowledge and skills that go with engine rebuilding. Bump clearance? When  and how do you tighten the manifold and head nuts and so on.

I was rightly or wrongly making the assumption that the op has the skills and knowledge to do the job, and was just asking about the tools needed.

[RussellBa]

Thanks for reply guys. I don't recall reading about bump clearance in the engine manual, what exactly is that. I'm having to consider doing this myself as getting hold of a mobile engineer on the Macc and peak forest canals isn't easy. Hoping to have one guy but he's had an accident and I'm not sure when he will be fit. I'm on a48 hour mooring but been given permission to stay for 4 weeks and I'm already 2 weeks into that.

[Steve56]

If you are not sure I would leave alone. Even though the Lister is a pretty basic engine their are a number of things that could cause problems. The bump clearance is only one of them. Also you will need or have to make special tools to change some of the main bearings. Then there is the setting up of the pumps and governor. And as Tony Brooks has previously mentioned, if the heads and manifolds are not correctly fitted you will end up fracturing one of the castings. 

[Tony Brooks]

21 minutes ago, Steve56 said:

I was rightly or wrongly making the assumption that the op has the skills and knowledge to do the job, and was just asking about the tools needed.

To be honest the initial question screamed I have a manual so I can do an overhaul so I assumed he probably did not have the skills or he would have known other "spanners" make the job easier.

[Steve56]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

To be honest the initial question screamed I have a manual so I can do an overhaul so I assumed he probably did not have the skills or he would have known other "spanners" make the job easier.

You are probably right.

[RussellBa]

I have strpped and rebuilt an engine in the past. I wanted to check about the tools as the parts manual only talks of 4 spanners and obviously the various fastenings are listed and are covered by said spanners but I was just making a general query as 4 spanners doesn't seem much.

[Steve56]

5 minutes ago, RussellBa said:

I have strpped and rebuilt an engine in the past. I wanted to check about the tools as the parts manual only talks of 4 spanners and obviously the various fastenings are listed and are covered by said spanners but I was just making a general query as 4 spanners doesn't seem much.

Are you looking at the operators handbook which used to be supplied with every engine and just covered basic operations. A full workshop manual was also available, although these were written with the assumption that whoever was reading them had the necessary skills to cary out the work. So therefore would not list every tool needed as a competent engineer would have everything needed in his kit.

[RussellBa]

I have the workshop manual.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, RussellBa said:

I have the workshop manual.

There are firms around who will do the bits that you can't because of the tooling required.

Where are you located?

[RussellBa]

Modded up in maple at present.

Moored not modded.

[Tracy D'arth]

You are in a good area for engine builders, there are lots around Stockport & South Manchester if you Google.  Phone a few and see which will work on ST3 Listers. 

[RussellBa]

Problem is getting someone to come out to the boat.

[Man 'o Kent]

Could you say what it is that is you think is wrong with the engine please?

 

This is not a frivolus enquiry as the problem has a direct bearing on the nature and complexity of the work involved and that in turn may well have a bearing on the advice you are given..

 

 

[RussellBa]

When I said major overhaul I meant the top end. Basically it is spraying oil and fumes from rocker cover gasket. So assume cylinder heads need at minimum a decoke and all new seals up to possibly replacing valves and guides.

Edited August 23, 2020 by RussellBa

[Tony Brooks]

I think your diagnosis is faulty. Oil and fumes leaking from rocker cover gaskets is far more likely to result from damaged gaskets or blocked crank case breathers than needing a de-coke. In fact I simply can't see where a de-coke comes into it. I don't know the ST but the other similar Listers' breathers are vertical pips under the rocker cover that connect to the inlet ports. The gaskets are narrow thin things are are easily damaged but I don't know the ST.

 

If the piston blow by is excessive then it may overwhelm the breather system but doing a de-coke and possibly damaging the carbon build up on top of the pistons is likely to make it worse. In this case it needs attention to the bores, pistons and rings and that may increase the load on the crankshaft bearings so a full overhaul may be sensible.

 

Read the manual  and check/clean the breathers first and fit new rocker cover gaskets.

 

A further thought. If the ST is like the SL/SR then it does not have a soft cylinder head gasket so if the head is loose, distorted, or the cylinder top face is damaged it might blow  fumes from just under the head. Check the torque of the head nuts.

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Tony Brooks

[RLWP]

9 hours ago, RussellBa said:

When I said major overhaul I meant the top end. Basically it is spraying oil and fumes from rocker cover gasket. So assume cylinder heads need at minimum a decoke and all new seals up to possibly replacing valves and guides.

Talk to Jason Gallop at Bollington Wharf: 01625 575811

 

He's pretty good with Listers

 

Richard

[RussellBa]

Thanks for the advice Tony I will start of as you suggest. I came to my conclusion because of the way oil and smoke are blown out under pressure and assumed the valves and guides were leaving pressurised exhaust into the rocker covers and then spraying oil out under pressure.

[Tony Brooks]

45 minutes ago, RussellBa said:

Thanks for the advice Tony I will start of as you suggest. I came to my conclusion because of the way oil and smoke are blown out under pressure and assumed the valves and guides were leaving pressurised exhaust into the rocker covers and then spraying oil out under pressure.

There is no sane way that worn valves and guides can pressurise the rocker cover. Just maybe exceptionally worn exhaust valves and guides plus a partially blocked exhaust may to a degree but its so "way out" its not wroth considering in the first instance.

 

Being air cooled cooling air is likely to pass up between the heads so any oil leaks inside the tin covers can get blown onto the cylinders where it smokes and the up between the cylinders heads.

 

Now an apparent illy question - does the engine appear to be making engine oil with the oil level rising? If so its probably overfull of an oil & diesel mixture and that means internal fuel leaks and needs fixing PDQ - before it decides to seize up or run a away on you.

[RussellBa]

I've not noticed observed oil level rising but I will check again later today. One thing I didn't mention was that the oil spray and fumes are are not continuous but pulse, I assumed with the exhaust valve opening and closing if that makes sense.