Ex Hire Boat in France.

[Josm100]

Hi everyone. My wife and I are considering a few years on the continent on the canals and rivers. We are based in Missouri but I'm an Irish Citizen. I wonder if anyone has any experience with the ex hire boats, particularly the Penichette boats from locaboat. I like the way their laid out to accommodate the kids and guests. I particularly like the second steering position on the flybridge models. 

 

I'd like to know if they can be lived on all year round with minor modifications,  are they insulated enough for winter? Could you add a small stove? Is the GRP lower maintenance than steel boats? 

 

I don't mind the boat being older as we will want to make modifications, maybe even remove an old engine to convert it to hybrid. As long as it's sturdy and floats.

 

Any advise/knowledge would be appreciated,  thanks, Joe.

[Izz]

No problem adding a stove in a GRP. ?

 

Whether the EU will let you burn anything in it is another matter! ?

[Josm100]

3 minutes ago, Izz said:

No problem adding a stove in a GRP. ?

 

Whether the EU will let you burn anything in it is another matter! ?

Thanks, I love the way the old barges look, and the new Pipers etc. They're beautiful but they all seem to have only one bedroom, I don't know know where we'd put our kids and guests who'd want to stay. Plus they're so expensive that we really wouldn't be able to make any meaningful modifications as the bank would already be broken. 

 

With the penichette we could convert one end of the boat into an master suite with a washer dryer and still have enough room for two more couples or our three kids to sleep, shower, etc, comfortably. 

[Boaty Jo]

The penichettes look good, that's possibly partly why you were attracted. We saw them in Lutzelbourg on the Marne au Rhin.

Without researching, I suspect the larger ones that would suit you will have more than two bedrooms, one of which will be below the rear deck and second steering postion. 

Converting one would not be cheap I suspect not least because there are not that many suitable boatyards in France.

Can you do it yourself? Or at least some of the work? If so a friendly yard may offer you space but it's not unknown for yards to charge quite a lot because their own staff are not working on the boat.

They will have some form of heating but I doubt they are well insulated. Very different having a holiday (summer) boat and a live aboard.  

When we looked at ex-hire boats, mainly Le Boat, I thought they were expensive.

[Bee]

The Dutch Barge Association is your best starting point. I may be wrong but I believe that one of their very experienced barge owners has downsized to a penichette. I see a lot of these on the European waterways and I've no idea who designed them or what the internal layout is but I would be very happy to own one and I'm quite fussy. As for living on board all year they may not be ideal, not many boats are in fact, most cruisers, most hire boats and a good many bigger boats are not great for that. In the meantime have a browse through boten te koop, its Dutch for boats for sale.

[Tam & Di]

Penichettes are excellent craft and very easy to handle even for inexperienced boaters. However, as suggested, the problem with buying pretty much any ex-hire boat for full time living is they are designed for short-term summer use. They will have no insulation to speak of, and minimal (if any) heating and cooking facilities. Bunkering stations in France are few and far between, and fuel, water and black-water tanks are only adequate for the short-term local use for which they are designed.

 

I'm sure they could be made to work, but the cruising range might be limited without increasing the tank size, and that could be extremely difficult to do. You might be better to look at a small barge-style craft which is already fitted for longer-term use and take it from there. Bee has already suggested looking in at the DBA www.barges.org, and if you get serious about the project that's where you'll find all the information you need.

 

Another aspect will be the essential visas etc, and you'll find a lot about that on the DBA site too.

 

Tam

[Athy]

Mrs. Athy and I have some experience of pénichettes, having hired them six or seven times on the French waterways. They were designed by the extensive Locaboat hire firm, who still operate them and who seem reluctant to sell them until they're about 30 years old - so most of those on the market are from the 1980s. They are well laid out and the engines (which are replaced from time to time) are Nannis which, in our experience, are reliable and powerful.

   We've usually hired a 935 (the number refers to the boat's length: 9.35 metres, or about 30 feet). This would be too small for you, but an 1107 or, if you're confident about handling something relatively big, a 1500 would meet your needs. Examples of both are currently for sale on the internet.

   Based on our experience we would NOT recommend one with a dual steering position: we hired one of these two years ago and found the upper position very imprecise - we spent the first couple of days zig-zagging until we began to get the hang of it.

   The standard heating is blown-air, and (at least on the 935) is in the day accommodation (saloon) only. As for insulation, I'm not sure, as we have hired only in fairly warm weather. You could do what the birds do and migrate South in the winter months.

 

P.S. Tam & Di's posts and mine crossed. They are vastly experienced on the French waterways and when they talk, you'd be well advised to listen. The one thing I would pick them up on is that pénichettes do indeed have a proper kitchen, with oven and hob (can't remember if it's three or four burners).

Edited June 14, 2020 by Athy

[Murflynn]

dream on ................................. 

 

https://barges.apolloduck.com/boat/barges-peniche/631241

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

dream on ................................. 

 

https://barges.apolloduck.com/boat/barges-peniche/631241

To use a technical term, Cor! If we sold the house we could buy that.....

 

I did investigate buying an ex-hire pénichette in France but ran into opposition....and she's still opposed to the idea.

[ditchcrawler]

There are some for sale https://barges.apolloduck.com/boats/locaboat/penichette-1107

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

There are some for sale https://barges.apolloduck.com/boats/locaboat/penichette-1107

A bit more choice here https://www.boatshed.com/penichette__vedette_fluviale-boat-236725.html

 

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

There are some for sale https://barges.apolloduck.com/boats/locaboat/penichette-1107

That's one of the ones I saw - thanks for the link.

I stand corrected re the cooker, as I see that the one in your advert has only two burners on its hob.

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, Athy said:

That's one of the ones I saw - thanks for the link.

I stand corrected re the cooker, as I see that the one in your advert has only two burners on its hob.

£35K for a 1986 ex hire boat

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

£35K for a 1986 ex hire boat

Yes, that's about standard over there. The shorter 935 models, which I was looking at, tend to come around £30,000 - though, as in Britain, it may be that haggling takes place.

Edit: come to think of it, when I looked at one for sale at Locaboat's base in Agen two years ago, the salesman offered me 2,000 euros off the price within 15 minutes.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Athy

[Athy]

11 hours ago, Josm100 said:

the bank would already be broken. 

 

 

Approximately how much is waiting in the "bank"? The figure will affect the range of choices which you have.

[Josm100]

Thank you so much guys, you've given me a lot to think about. I think a $35k butget would be easily doable with another $10-15k for modifications. We may just end up using it for the summer but it would be nice to sneak over during the winter for a bit. If it were moored on the south that could be okay, but you know, one can dream of wintering in Bruges or Paris but the reality may be miserable. 

 

I like the idea of adding a hybrid system like the one manufactured by beta marine, that would take care of the small fuel tank issue, but I wonder if it would even fit. 

 

Thanks for the advice on the upper steering position, I wonder if maybe yours was malfunctioning or did you find this to be the case on multiple boats. Thanks again guys. Joe.

1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

dream on ................................. 

 

https://barges.apolloduck.com/boat/barges-peniche/631241

Yeah....that's not gonna happen!

[Josm100]

https://m.apolloduck.com/boat/locaboat-penichette-1500/611669

 

Here's a 1500 for sale, but I don't like the room layout, I prefer the ensuite fore aft layout of the 1500 flybridge.

2 hours ago, Athy said:

Mrs. Athy and I have some experience of pénichettes, having hired them six or seven times on the French waterways. They were designed by the extensive Locaboat hire firm, who still operate them and who seem reluctant to sell them until they're about 30 years old - so most of those on the market are from the 1980s. They are well laid out and the engines (which are replaced from time to time) are Nannis which, in our experience, are reliable and powerful.

   We've usually hired a 935 (the number refers to the boat's length: 9.35 metres, or about 30 feet). This would be too small for you, but an 1107 or, if you're confident about handling something relatively big, a 1500 would meet your needs. Examples of both are currently for sale on the internet.

   Based on our experience we would NOT recommend one with a dual steering position: we hired one of these two years ago and found the upper position very imprecise - we spent the first couple of days zig-zagging until we began to get the hang of it.

   The standard heating is blown-air, and (at least on the 935) is in the day accommodation (saloon) only. As for insulation, I'm not sure, as we have hired only in fairly warm weather. You could do what the birds do and migrate South in the winter months.

 

P.S. Tam & Di's posts and mine crossed. They are vastly experienced on the French waterways and when they talk, you'd be well advised to listen. The one thing I would pick them up on is that pénichettes do indeed have a proper kitchen, with oven and hob (can't remember if it's three or four burners).

You know it's not just the steering position that attractive about these models, weather it works or not, it's that large upper deck too. 

[Albion]

2 minutes ago, Josm100 said:

Thank you so much guys, you've given me a lot to think about. I think a $35k butget would be easily doable with another $10-15k for modifications. We may just end up using it for the summer but it would be nice to sneak over during the winter for a bit. If it were moored on the south that could be okay, but you know, one can dream of wintering in Bruges or Paris but the reality may be miserable. 

 

I like the idea of adding a hybrid system like the one manufactured by beta marine, that would take care of the small fuel tank issue, but I wonder if it would even fit. 

 

Thanks for the advice on the upper steering position, I wonder if maybe yours was malfunctioning or did you find this to be the case on multiple boats. Thanks again guys. Joe.

Those Penichette boats were very popular when we had our barge over there for many years. They used to handle well and hirers didn't seem to have any problems that I observed with the upper steering position so whether Athy got a duff one or not I can't say. Locaboat lost the rights somehow, so we were told, to the GRP moulds for those Penichettes and so the ones being sold will always, as they ever were, be older ones and presumably increasingly rare as the more modern stock gets sold. I did have some experience working on a small old one once and agree that they are summer boats really, no effective insulation. Also, I was surprised to see that there was no engine coolant heat exchange system for the calorifier so you were reliant on plug in port electricity bornes or using the gas heating system for heating the water. I have no idea if this as continued in the later models. On the whole though they went well and certainly were popular.

Roger

[KenK]

Not sure where and which boats you have been looking at but most barges have more than one cabin, our 17 mtr. Luxemotor has two and certainly enough room in the saloon for a sofa bed if we needed one. Loads of information and boats for sale on the DBA website and also on the RYA website. You will find far more boats for sale in the Netherlands, all types and prices.

Please be aware that you will need an ICC (International Certificate of Competence) and a VHF licence, assuming the boat has a VHF set, which to be realistic is necessary in Europe. The rules are also different for boats over 20 metres in length.

Prior to buying our boat we hired a Locaboat Penichette for a couple of weeks on the Canal du Midi, it was OK for two for a couple of weeks holiday in summer but it would have required a total refit to turn it into a live aboard.

[Albion]

7 minutes ago, Josm100 said:

https://m.apolloduck.com/boat/locaboat-penichette-1500/611669

 

Here's a 1500 for sale, but I don't like the room layout, I prefer the ensuite fore aft layout of the 1500 flybridge.

You know it's not just the steering position that attractive about these models, weather it works or not, it's that large upper deck too. 

Word of warning, watch out for Max Gerard and H20. The accurate stories that we were told and some of the things that went on when boats were repaired and sold had to be heard to be believed.

Roger

PM me if you want chapter and verse on what we saw and heard first hand.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Albion

[Josm100]

4 minutes ago, Albion said:

Those Penichette boats were very popular when we had our barge over there for many years. They used to handle well and hirers didn't seem to have any problems that I observed with the upper steering position so whether Athy got a duff one or not I can't say. Locaboat lost the rights somehow, so we were told, to the GRP moulds for those Penichettes and so the ones being sold will always, as they ever were, be older ones and presumably increasingly rare as the more modern stock gets sold. I did have some experience working on a small old one once and agree that they are summer boats really, no effective insulation. Also, I was surprised to see that there was no engine coolant heat exchange system for the calorifier so you were reliant on plug in port electricity bornes or using the gas heating system for heating the water. I have no idea if this as continued in the later models. On the whole though they went well and certainly were popular.

Roger

We would have to completely gut it to add insulation, right? Probably not worth it at all. Especially since we may not even winter there. My missouri wife almost perished from the cold during a winter in Ireland! 

3 minutes ago, Albion said:

Word of warning, watch out for Max Gerard and H20. The accurate stories that we were told and some of the things that went on when boats were repaired and sold had to be heard to be believed.

Roger

PM me if you want chapter and verse on what we saw and heard first hand.

Thanks, I haven't been looking very long and that's not the first time I've heard that. Seems that they're reputation has been established.  Joe.

[Josm100]

6 minutes ago, KenK said:

Not sure where and which boats you have been looking at but most barges have more than one cabin, our 17 mtr. Luxemotor has two and certainly enough room in the saloon for a sofa bed if we needed one. Loads of information and boats for sale on the DBA website and also on the RYA website. You will find far more boats for sale in the Netherlands, all types and prices.

Please be aware that you will need an ICC (International Certificate of Competence) and a VHF licence, assuming the boat has a VHF set, which to be realistic is necessary in Europe. The rules are also different for boats over 20 metres in length.

Prior to buying our boat we hired a Locaboat Penichette for a couple of weeks on the Canal du Midi, it was OK for two for a couple of weeks holiday in summer but it would have required a total refit to turn it into a live aboard.

Well, let me clarify that in the lengths I've been looking at there is only one room. With two adults and three kids it would be nice for everyone to scatter at least some part of the day. The newer boats are very expensive and look to be designed for one couple crusing while the older boats look like maintenance nightmares to someone without much experience. 

42 minutes ago, Athy said:

Approximately how much is waiting in the "bank"? The figure will affect the range of choices which you have.

I think the $35k range is very comfortable and allow another $10-15k for modifications. 

[Josm100]

3 hours ago, Bee said:

The Dutch Barge Association is your best starting point. I may be wrong but I believe that one of their very experienced barge owners has downsized to a penichette. I see a lot of these on the European waterways and I've no idea who designed them or what the internal layout is but I would be very happy to own one and I'm quite fussy. As for living on board all year they may not be ideal, not many boats are in fact, most cruisers, most hire boats and a good many bigger boats are not great for that. In the meantime have a browse through boten te koop, its Dutch for boats for sale.

I tried to research on there, there seemed to be a lot of knowledgeable people and was interesting. 

 

However the forum posts seemed to be all jumbled about with no clear starting post or chronology to the replys.  Plus I couldn't find a search function to find topics. Maybe I have to be a member? I don't mind spending $35 for membership but it just seemed so haphazard and scattershot that I don't know I could compile the information I need. I'm no luddite when it comes to the internet, but that one confused me. If you know a better way to use it please let me know. Joe.

[Albion]

16 minutes ago, Josm100 said:

We would have to completely gut it to add insulation, right? Probably not worth it at all. Especially since we may not even winter there. My missouri wife almost perished from the cold during a winter in Ireland! 

During our times in the Burgundy region and later at Auxonne (on the Saone) we left our boat winterised in the winter and returned to the UK. That region has generally hot summers and cold winters, Central European climate as opposed to Ireland and the UK having the benefit of the Gulf Stream. I used to leave a max/min thermometer on the boat just for interest and the lowest that it recorded was minus 16C over one particularly bad winter. I'm not saying that this is typical but it shows you just how popular you might be with your wife if you choose to start your French boating experience with a bad winter. ?

Roger

[Josm100]

2 minutes ago, Albion said:

During our times in the Burgundy region and later at Auxonne (on the Saone) we left our boat winterised in the winter and returned to the UK. That region has generally hot summers and cold winters, Central European climate as opposed to Ireland and the UK having the benefit of the Gulf Stream. I used to leave a max/min thermometer on the boat just for interest and the lowest that it recorded was minus 16C over one particularly bad winter. I'm not saying that this is typical but it shows you just how popular you might be with your wife if you choose to start your French boating experience with a bad winter. ?

Roger

Sounds like good old Missouri, 40°C in the summer and -40°C in the winter. 

 

Well, -20°C, I exaggerate!

Edited June 14, 2020 by Josm100
More info, clarification

[Albion]

Just now, Josm100 said:

Sounds like good old Missouri, 40°C in the summer and -40°C in the winter. 

Ah, so was it the damp, cold, of Ireland that she couldn't stand then rather than just the temperature per se?

Roger