Recommended Brokerages (good and less good)

[tree monkey]

41 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

I must admit I'm fascinated by this phenomenon of the buyer spending months pondering what they need, and then instantly feeling an almost compulsive and illogical attraction to certain boats, regardless of all their previous thoughts. 

Obviously its a thing, because it happens to so many people, so in the spirit of public service I shall report back- hopefully in September or October- after I have acquired the steel tube in question.

I have looked at a few boats, basically window shopping, but have't yet felt that siren call from any of them- I wonder if it happens when you know you have the readies to hand and burning a hole in your bank account... 

Now I'm wondering how far the feeling goes- do you find yourself thinking: 'Yes it has got a 50 year old lawnmower engine, and a 5 gallon water tank. And the hot water system runs on peat. But who really needs water anyway? I mean just look at how lovely it is...'

Happened to me and I definitely did not have the money, it was a tense month or so

[Bee]

Thing to remember is that Tom, Dick or Harry decides to flog their boat, takes it to a broker and hopes they can sell it. So it really is buyer beware, probably even more than buying privately when at least the seller should be able to answer some questions honestly (or lie unconvincingly) If you are buying a boat try and think what is the most expensive repair should it all go wrong, hull, engine, followed by all the electrics maybe and finishing up with all the pretty stuff that made you want to buy the thing in the first place, paint job, shag pile carpets etc. Then unless you are very knowlegable indeed get someone who has really been around to look at it and crawl under it and lift floorboards and give an opinion on engine, cheap and nasty gearbox, probably duff batteries and useless heating system.

[DandV]

Well buying a boat is a lot simpler then buying a house as location is not important. A nice week or so cruising can change even the most inconvenient location to the most convenient.

[Dr Bob]

16 hours ago, carlcymru said:

 

going to buy a narrowboat in the very foreseeable future, based upon experiences which are the best brokerages to use and the best to (ahem!) fail to attend

 

We can speak with some experience of this as over the past 3 months have been both selling and buying a boat. Having had our 'first' narrow boat for 3 years we figured out we knew what we wanted so were  looking for something longer (current boat 62'). After 2 months of searching every broker we drew a blank. There are just not enough good boats out there for sale. All the brokers were moaning 3 weeks ago (everything on hold now) that they need boats to sell and as soon as they get one, it sells quickly...in days. Yes, there a lot of 'stuck' overpriced boats out there which wont sell ....so Apollo duck seems to have lots of boats...but actually the market is very short. We couldnt find what we we wanted so ended up going for a new boat ....so we will loose cash .....but at least we get what we want. In the 6 weeks since placing the order on the new boat, nothing fitting our requirements has turned up (1-5 years old, better than average fitout, 65' etc).

The brokers were right. Our broker valued our current boat, suggested a price to sell it at, which actually was spot on what I thought it would go for and we accepted an offer 2 days after the advert went up (on the brokers web site only). Seems to confirm the view that good boats will sell quickly. It's now in limbo a bit with the lockdown. I reckon that in 2-3 months when the lockdown eases that all those peeps who go to the Spanish Costa's, Greece and Turkey on holiday or on cruises will be looking for places to holiday in the UK for the next few years and canal boats will become more in demand.

For the OP then, if you see the boat that shouts 'buy me', offer on it straight away 'cause if you dont, some one else will. Because good boats are in short supply, you will need to go round all the big brokers, you will be waiting forever if you just pick one.

[MtB]

10 hours ago, DandV said:

Again it depends on what you want the boat for? If it is for a post retirement part time cruising, for a just few years before decrepitude sets in, then buying a succession of boats may not be for you. If you want to go boating this summer once the lockdown is over MTB's suggested strategy makes a lot of sense.

 

Expanding on this point, if you make a list of features you want then try to find a boat that matches the list, whole summers can slip past in fruitless searching and you don't get to go boating at all. 

 

My philosophy is ANY boat is better than no boat if you actually want to spend what time you have left on this mortal coil going out boating. As opposed to going out looking at boats for sale and rejecting them all.

 

Some people however really enjoy going out looking at boats every weekend then when they buy one, they discover that enjoyment has been snatched away - so watch out for this effect too.

 

 

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

all those peeps who go to the Spanish Costa's, Greece and Turkey on holiday or on cruises will be looking for places to holiday in the UK for the next few years and canal boats will become more in demand.

Dr Bob, I find this a very worrying prospect. 

One of the things that appeals to me about the narrowboat 'lifestyle' (apologies for the buzzword) is that it offers the possibility of finding quiet spots to spend a bit of time away from the 'madding crowd', so to speak- whilst still being not too far from people, shops and facilities.

In the last few decades there has been a steady stream of UK citizens who moved permanently to Spain (and similar places). But after 31 December the  option to retire abroad will no longer be available, at least not for the majority.  

So in addition to the possible increase in holiday boat traffic during the warmer months, I wonder if we are likely to see an increase in the numbers of retirees who would have gone to Spain, but will now have to stay in the UK, and some of whom will opt to live on boats? 

I'm not bothered about the effect on prices, as that will be neutral (i.e. you will pay more to buy a boat, but you will get more back when you sell). 

What worries me is the prospect of a significant increase in the number of liveaboards and semi-liveaboards, and the possibility that this might reduce the opportunities to find quiet spots to moor, where there are no other boats about. 

 

[tree monkey]

8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Some people however really enjoy going out looking at boats every weekend then when they buy one, they discover that enjoyment has been snatched away - so watch out for this effect too.

 

 

This is true, poking around boats for sale is remarkably satisfying, I was glad to finally hand the cash over but it was great fun looking,  even though I had decided on mine I kept looking just because 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

What worries me is the prospect of a significant increase in the number of liveaboards and semi-liveaboards, and the possibility that this might reduce the opportunities to find quiet spots to moor, where there are no other boats about. 

 

According to C&RT figures (they suggest) there are currently well over 5000 liveaboards who actually admit to living aboard. In cities the numbers have increased by around 18% per annum, with the 'North' now seeing faster growth than the South.

 

No one knows how many 'heavy leisure users'  (365 days use but not admitting to being liveaboards) there are, it could run into 1000's more.

 

You will not be a member of a small minority any longer (even without C19)

[Athy]

8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

Some people however really enjoy going out looking at boats every weekend then when they buy one, they discover that enjoyment has been snatched away..

 

 

That'a a valid point. About three years ago, when Mrs. Athy was car shopping,. over a succession of weekends we tried a Skoda, a Nissan, a Vauxhall, and two Suzukis. There was indeed a rather flat feeling after she had chosen one, and we weren't visiting garages any more. But this was, of course, offset by the enjoyment of the new one.

  Last month we went looking again, and agreed a deal within an hour and a half at the first dealers' we went to. It was a bit of a letdown.

[Dr Bob]

14 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Dr Bob, I find this a very worrying prospect. 

One of the things that appeals to me about the narrowboat 'lifestyle' (apologies for the buzzword) is that it offers the possibility of finding quiet spots to spend a bit of time away from the 'madding crowd', so to speak- whilst still being not too far from people, shops and facilities.

In the last few decades there has been a steady stream of UK citizens who moved permanently to Spain (and similar places). But after 31 December the  option to retire abroad will no longer be available, at least not for the majority.  

So in addition to the possible increase in holiday boat traffic during the warmer months, I wonder if we are likely to see an increase in the numbers of retirees who would have gone to Spain, but will now have to stay in the UK, and some of whom will opt to live on boats? 

I'm not bothered about the effect on prices, as that will be neutral (i.e. you will pay more to buy a boat, but you will get more back when you sell). 

What worries me is the prospect of a significant increase in the number of liveaboards and semi-liveaboards, and the possibility that this might reduce the opportunities to find quiet spots to moor, where there are no other boats about. 

 

I think it would take a huge number of new boats to overload the canal system! You can always find a quiet spot to moor. That's not going to change. It would take 5 or 6 years of agressive boat building to make any difference and today 90% of canal boats being built are fat boats so crusing the narrow canals is not going to change.

Our base is near one of the busiest stretches of canal .....the bit between Braunston and Napton ......and yet there is always somewhere nice and quiet to moor up. I really wouldnt get worried about the canals getting too busy.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Dr Bob

[robtheplod]

Forget the brokerage, that doesn't matter, you just need to find the right boat for you. Do your homework before you start looking and know what you want - chat to the folks on here who are really helpful and will guide you through what you need and what you would like...

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

 today 90% of canal boats being built are fat boats 

A weensy exaggeration perhaps?

[Tony1]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

According to C&RT figures (they suggest) there are currently well over 5000 liveaboards who actually admit to living aboard. In cities the numbers have increased by around 18% per annum, with the 'North' now seeing faster growth than the South.

 

No one knows how many 'heavy leisure users'  (365 days use but not admitting to being liveaboards) there are, it could run into 1000's more.

 

Apologies to the OP as this is a rather severe tangent on your original query, and might warrant a separate question and discussion.

If there is a view from the boating community that the canals are becoming increasingly congested, it is one of the very few things that could make me reconsider the whole idea.

I love boats.

People, not quite so much- or at least not in close proximity.

 

[Tony1]

11 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Our base is near one of the busiest stretches of canal .....the bit between Braunston and Napton ......and yet there is always somewhere nice and quiet to moor up. I really wouldnt get worried about the canals getting too busy.

Thanks Dr Bob, that reply has soothed my fevered brow somewhat. 

I can recall the canals I holidayed on being busy at times, but there were always quiet spots to be found as you say.

 

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

According to C&RT figures (they suggest) there are currently well over 5000 liveaboards who actually admit to living aboard. In cities the numbers have increased by around 18% per annum, with the 'North' now seeing faster growth than the South.

 

Thanks Alan, thankfully I don't intend to spend much time in the towns and cities. 

It sounds as if the liveaboard numbers are going up, but so far there is plenty of room to accommodate the increase, and no sense of increasing congestion

 

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

One of the things that appeals to me about the narrowboat 'lifestyle' (apologies for the buzzword) is that it offers the possibility of finding quiet spots to spend a bit of time away from the 'madding crowd', so to speak- 

 

As Alan sort of points out, this is really difficult to achieve. 

 

What actually happens is you find your quiet spot, then like the people who buy houses next to the 'quiet and peaceful canal', you realise a boat goes past about once every four minutes... in each direction. And some slow down, others almost pull your pins out. Some go past nice and quiet, others are making an unholy racket.  And after about ten minutes of this, one (usually a noisy one) will think oh you have a nice spot here, we will stop too. Then after half an hour of pin hammering as they get moored up nice and tight close to your bow doors, you realise they have no intention of turning their engine off. 

 

So fuming, you pull your pins and cruise off to find another 'quiet spot', and so the cycle repeats itself.

 

I exaggerate a little, but its a well known effect that the minute you moor up in a nice secluded place, three other boats immediately stop and join you.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Thanks Dr Bob, that reply has soothed my fevered brow somewhat. 

I can recall the canals I holidayed on being busy at times, but there were always quiet spots to be found as you say.

 

 

Thanks Alan, thankfully I don't intend to spend much time in the towns and cities. 

It sounds as if the liveaboard numbers are going up, but so far there is plenty of room to accommodate the increase, and no sense of increasing congestion

 

 

C&RT are the responsible navigation Authority for about 2000km of canals and 1,000km of Rivers. Rivers are not ideal for liveaboards so looking solely at Canals.

 

Take a maximum of 10,000 liveaboard boats.

 

That is one boat every 200 metres - however the reality is that a high percentage will 'cluster' in major city areas (Particularly London & Bristol), the other factor is that not all liveaboards are CCers (lets say - worse case only 50%).

 

Taking all the factors into account it shouldn't be difficult to find a space of 1km in front of you and 1km behind you, you will however find that a boat is a magnet, as soon as you moor up in 'the wilds' a boat will come and tie up 6 feet behind you, and then another and then another. Leave your mooring-up until late evening by which time most others will have moored up, and. once you find a space you should keep it for the night.

[Dr Bob]

28 minutes ago, Athy said:

A weensy exaggeration perhaps?

Well perhaps!

....but not far off. Ours is being built in Poland and they have a good order book for fat boats but they were able to start building our narrowboat straight away (this was before the virus came along). We spoke to a number of the higher quality builders and it was the same message, wall to wall fat boats, not a lot of narrow boats.

[Tony1]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Taking all the factors into account it shouldn't be difficult to find a space of 1km in front of you and 1km behind you, you will however find that a boat is a magnet, as soon as you moor up in 'the wilds' a boat will come and tie up 6 feet behind you, and then another and then another. Leave your mooring-up until late evening by which time most others will have moored up, and. once you find a space you should keep it for the night.

Thanks Alan and Mike, you paint a somewhat grim picture for those of an antisocial bent, it has to be said. 

But you also outline the beginnings of a strategy, for those times when one would like to moor alone. 

The best solution would be to moor up, having already scouted an alternative location a little further ahead. 

The other boats then arrive and moor up magnetically all around you, and perhaps 20 minutes before dark you up sticks and move the few hundred yards or whatever to the place you spotted earlier....? 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

The other boats then arrive and moor up magnetically all around you, and perhaps 20 minutes before dark you up sticks and move the few hundred yards or whatever to the place you spotted earlier....? 

 

 

 

 

The problem is that that ideal lonely spot you had as 'Plan B' is now also 'full up' - you will also struggle to get back to your 'plan B' spot as you only saw it as you passed it on the way to mooring spot A.

The canals are not wide enough to turn so you may have to go miles 'forwards' to a winding-hole (turning point), go back to plan B spot, then the next morning go further back for several miles to a winding hole so you can turn around and continue your 'progressive journey' (passing mooring spot A several hours later)

Edited April 5, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

25 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

The best solution would be to moor up, having already scouted an alternative location a little further ahead. 

How do you scout out a location further ahead?

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

How do you scout out a location further ahead?

Why Mr Mack, I have a cunning plan.

It begins with 'B' and ends with 'ike'.

[Dr Bob]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

How do you scout out a location further ahead?

Send the wife.

[MtB]

16 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Why Mr Mack, I have a cunning plan.

It begins with 'B' and ends with 'ike'.

 

You send your bike up for a look?

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Mike the Boilerman

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

You send your bike up for a look?

 

Others use a drone....

 

It was my intention to accompany the bike on its scouting mission, but you offer an even more cunning plan.

A drone, you say.....

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

A drone, you say.....

 

Definitely not me.

 

Nobody heard me say it....

 

You can't prove anything.