sterling invertor/charger

[matrix]

hi peeps

new boat is now on order ( should be ready for early summer next year )

but were not sure which invertor/charger combi is best

the boat builder are recomending a victron phoenix multiplus 3000

and im sort of took on the idea of a sterling 3000

 

on paper the sterling beats the victron hands down in just about every field

and the sterling is £200 cheaper !!!

but has anyone any experiance of these sterling combis

cos if there only any good on paper and crap in the real world then i would rather not waste my hard earned

cheers people

[Gary Peacock]

Sell both.

 

Worked with both.

 

Would fit the Victron.

 

We currently fit Mastervolt by preference but might soon change back to Victron.

 

The Stirling is a badged product from Taiwan and is quite a good product the cheapest source is ebay direct from the manufacturer or you might find it in the UK cheaper too with a different colour case and different stickers.

 

The Victron is built at the moment I think in China but is Victron's design and own product in the early years they had to do a massive product recall based on a safety issue but after that became one of the most popular and reliable units world wide and are now used by the big gin palace builders and the US Coastguard.

 

Mastervolt is much the same market to the Victron with maybe a few more tricks but costs a bit more, we used it because it was a one stop solution supplying full packages with a potential 5 year world wide warranty.

 

Those with the superior intellect will go on at great length about how all inverters are not born alike in the way they are rated, they aren't but if you are looking at large enough units in the first place I woudn't give yourself the headache and confusion that doing a side by side comparrision will cause you.

 

Back to Victron the RRP is not the price to pay shop around! If your builder is supplying it find out how much the cost is, if it's over expensive source it yourself. (Builders stick with their common suppliers who give them good credit in return these suppliers do not offer good prices but the builders live with it rather than shopping about and having to pay up front.)

Edited September 12, 2007 by Gary Peacock

[anhar]

hi peeps

new boat is now on order ( should be ready for early summer next year )

but were not sure which invertor/charger combi is best

the boat builder are recomending a victron phoenix multiplus 3000

and im sort of took on the idea of a sterling 3000

 

on paper the sterling beats the victron hands down in just about every field

and the sterling is £200 cheaper !!!

but has anyone any experiance of these sterling combis

cos if there only any good on paper and crap in the real world then i would rather not waste my hard earned

cheers people

I think you are wrong to consider price at all. You should want the best, particularly on a new boat, and price should be irrelevant - within reason of course and £200 is irrelevant in the context of the cost of a new boat.

 

It's only when other things are equal that price should be considered. I faced this question on my new boat recently and went with a Victron combi. The reason is that I believe Victron or Mastervolt to be the absolute best. Sterling users seem to have more problems than might be expected, but admittedly that's just my impression, I can't prove it. It's just a feeling I've gleaned from readers' reports on this forum and comments from builders, the latter being in a position to know better than most people. Importantly, when Sterling have problems as some readers here have reported, the customer service appears to have been less than satisfactory. I wouldn't buy Sterling even if they are a bit cheaper.

 

Stick with Victron or Mastervolt and don't fall for Sterling or any other brand just because they are a little cheaper. You should consider Sterling only if you really think them to be the equivalent quality of the others, not on price.

 

regards

Steve

Edited September 12, 2007 by anhar

[chris w]

.............. [Mastervolt] was a one stop solution supplying full packages with a potential 5 year world wide warranty.

 

What's a "potential" warranty????

 

Chris

[KenK]

What's a "potential" warranty????

 

Chris

 

That's the one where your covered for five years provided it doesn't break!

 

 

Ken

[chris w]

I've always wondered what is meant by the term "lifetime warranty". Is that my lifetime or the product's lifetime? ie: in the latter case, as you allude to Ken, it's covered all the time it has a lifetime but not once it goes wrong.

 

Chris

Edited September 12, 2007 by chris w

[matrix]

thanks gary just what i needed to hear

someone who has fitted and used both and would recomend the victon

thats good enough for me

one less thing to sort out now

just 457 left !!

cheers

[Gary Peacock]

What's a "potential" warranty????

 

Chris

 

Mastervolt give a 2 year standard warranty worldwide. (This is a true on site warranty not a post it back and we will send you a new one by return type one.)

 

However if you do a complete system- gen set, inverter and management system etc installed to their recommended standards and inspected by them then the warranty is extended to 5 years.

 

Of course this costs more money and ties you into buying more of Mastervolt's products but the 5 year worldwide cover is attractive to the lumpy water "Gin Palace" builders if not to those who specialise in the ditch crawling market.

[chris w]

I would be interested to know specifically why Gary thinks the Victron unit is the best in his opinion rather than vague generalities. Let's have the facts Gary rather than throw-away lines because, as a supplier, your words carry a lot of weight with some people.

 

Chris

 

Mastervolt give a 2 year standard warranty worldwide. (This is a true on site warranty not a post it back and we will send you a new one by return type one.)

 

So you are saying that if I buy a Mastervolt inverter, and it fails, they will come out to me even if I'm on some rural part of the canal system rather than based in a town?

 

Chris

Edited September 12, 2007 by chris w

[Gary Peacock]

I would be interested to know specifically why Gary thinks the Victron unit is the best in his opinion rather than vague generalities.

 

Let's have the facts Gary rather than throw-away lines because, as a supplier, your words carry a lot of weight with some people.

 

Chris

 

I don't have a problem with the Kipoint products they seem to sell a lot worldwide and in all honesty haven't had a problem with any.

 

If you like them you're free to buy them and pay whatever you choose to pay based on where you get it from. (Obviously if I sell you one you get a UK warranty if you buy it cheaper off ebay then there are risks involved.)

 

So why don't we fit them:-

 

Because we prefer the Victron and Mastervolt warranty offered outside the UK if any of the various Kipoint distributors could offer that then we might consider them.

 

Personal reason why I don't like them is I was always taught to deal with the "Organ Grinder not the Monkey" now this is true of a lot of products these days but I have always felt more comfortable dealing with the manufacturer than those lower down the food chain.

 

So if you want a Kipoint product I don't see any problem with them or have a problem with the various box shifters you can buy them from, but we wont be offering them without the customer requests them.

[chris w]

So, in answer to my specific question, you say you would recommend Victron and Mastervolt solely because of the warranty rather than any technical reasons.

 

So what's wrong with the Sterling warranty then?

 

As an instance, I had a fault on a Sterling Charger and they replaced it by return of post and even upgraded me to a better model. When I have rung them a couple of times for some technical advice, I have always found them to be most helpful.

 

Chris

[Gary Peacock]

So, in answer to my specific question, you say you would recommend Victron and Mastervolt solely because of the warranty rather than any technical reasons.

 

So what's wrong with the Sterling warranty then?

 

As an instance, I had a fault on a Sterling Charger and they replaced it by return of post and even upgraded me to a better model. When I have rung them a couple of times for some technical advice, I have always found them to be most helpful.

 

Chris

 

We aren't geared up to chase around Europe fitting exchange units or even the UK, Chris I aren't saying there rubbish or anything like that they just don't suit our market at the moment.

 

I can't argue about the spec either, one of the clones (Not Stirling) got a excellent technical review by a boat magazine. We also sell that clone but it doesn't change my views on dealing with box shifters rather than suppliers.

 

I spent an awful lot of money distributing and marketing a product made in Taiwan not specifically for me, they chopped and changed specifications parts became very production run dependent and were not interchangeable within two years parts for the early production units weren't available and we were giving away more recent units in order to honour the warranty and service contract. In the third year the Taiwanese decided to completely stop making the units leaving us holding the baby. And quite amusingly two years later the same units reappeared on the market being produced by another manufacturer after they bought the tooling etc.

 

Now I aren't saying that KIPOINT ENTERPRISE CO.,LTD are that type of company, I have never dealt with them directly.

 

The company profile is a giggle though

 

To quote-

 

With the wealthy producing experience and years of research and technological development which allow us have the ability to offer the desired products to match different customers demands such as from Japan, Europe, American, Middle East,

Oceania...etc. Not only have earned our company on a foremost position and enjoyed an excellent reputation all over the world in this DC/AC Inverter Field, but also make our company steady growth in these years .

 

In addition, our capable R & D have taken further approach and succeed in coming out with DC to AC Micro controller Inverter . They have been launched into the market successfully and got lots of favorable responses from the customers.

We are qualified to say that this Unique product will become your best competitive advantage than others and help you gain more business chances on this line !!

 

Moreover, with the strict Q.C. and strong R & D, our inverters field have been passed CE / E-Mark certification and lead us gained ISO 9001.Also the quality of back-up services we provide to customers which we always very much concern.

 

 

 

Well I think we can all wish them continued steady growth over future years and that will hopefully earn all concerned both home and faraway a plentiful supply of beer tokens!

Edited September 12, 2007 by Gary Peacock

[chris w]

We aren't geared up to chase around Europe fitting exchange units or even the UK, Chris I aren't saying there rubbish or anything like that they just don't suit our market at the moment.

 

I can't argue about the spec either, one of the clones (Not Stirling) got a excellent technical review by a boat magazine. We also sell that clone but it doesn't change my views on dealing with box shifters rather than suppliers.

 

I don't understand. YOUR Contract of Sale is with Sterling or whomsoever else you buy from. Where they are made is, from a legal standpoint, irrelevant. If you act as a Sterling supplier then Sterling are the people that need to repair/exchange units if they fail.

 

Why would you have to "chase all over Europe"?

 

What was the answer to my Mastervolt question BTW? viz: you stated, "Mastervolt give a 2 year standard warranty worldwide. (This is a true on site warranty not a post it back and we will send you a new one by return type one.)"

Would they come out to my rural mooring then if my inverter fails at no charge to me?

 

Chris

[Gary Peacock]

I don't understand. YOUR Contract of Sale is with Sterling or whomsoever else you buy from. Where they are made is, from a legal standpoint, irrelevant. If you act as a Sterling supplier then Sterling are the people that need to repair/exchange units if they fail.

 

Why would you have to "chase all over Europe"?

 

What was the answer to my Mastervolt question BTW? viz: you stated, "Mastervolt give a 2 year standard warranty worldwide. (This is a true on site warranty not a post it back and we will send you a new one by return type one.)"

Would they come out to my rural mooring then if my inverter fails at no charge to me?

 

Chris

 

We can arrange for Mastervolt or it's agents to provide warranty work worldwide if this is a valid warranty claim then it is paid for by the manafacturer.

 

Obviously you need to be somewhere accesible.

 

Victron also provide this service so do Barrus, Beta Marine etc.

 

If Sterling or the other clone suppliers do have a service network available then obviously it makes them an attractive alternative too.

 

 

Chris in your opinion you find these inverters your choice above the others available and I feel certain technically you can prove it.

 

I like Victron and Mastervolt and aren't paid to endorse them.

 

I assume you are not paid to endorse Stirling? So in your view they are the best.

 

You are a potential customer and I am sure you know the saying.

 

I am more than happy to say you are right!

 

It makes little difference to me what brand customers use they are often far clever than me and qualified to make their own decisions.

 

If you have time to spare why not do a compression between the "Stirling" and the others. Like I said at the start of this thread all inverters aren't born alike and the members might be interested to here you describe to them why.

 

It would also make a good feature for the rumoured on line canal magazine some are working on.

[ChrisPy]

do you think we could persuade Which? magazine ......... oh OK, forget it

[Gibbo]

do you think we could persuade Which? magazine ......... oh OK, forget it

 

Just to add a different angle...........

 

Is a 3000 watt inverter really any use without about 1500 amp hours of batteries and a 400 amp alternator?

 

This obsession with huge inverters makes me giggle. On a narrowboat 1500 watts is *usually* plenty. If it isn't, look at what you're doing with all that power and how you're going to provide sufficient battery power (and recharge them).

 

A 3000 watt inverter will run at full power, from a typical narrowboat 400Ahr battery bank for about 25 minutes before shutting down on low battery voltage. It will take the typical narrowboat 70 amp alternator about 7 hours to put that power back into the batteries. And that's assuming the charging system is up to scratch.

 

What possible use is that?

 

Gibbo

[DHutch]

The Sterling/Mastervolt/Victron debate is a common and interesting one.

 

We have a 15yo (yellow) sterling charger 24v 25amp, which looks simluar in constuction to there current 'ProDigital' chargers. It has behaved faultlessly for the whole time, including the first 10 years of the boat where we basicaly didnt have a functional alternator, as relied soley ont he sterling unit. It also runs fine of a simularly aged honda EX1000 genny.

 

However, there inverter/charger units have a very cheap feel to them, and charles sterling promotional literiture grates on me enormously.

- Rather than the victrons, which look feel and seam very roubust and neat anda nice blue. With the literiture and website also looking cock on.

- To the end, if was buying a setup again right here and now. It would be a Victron unit, with the option of a EU1000 honda suitcase.

 

 

Daniel

[mizpah]

Hi,i am , like MATRIX , ready to spend my hard eaned on an electrical system. i will have 12volt fridge and freezer , pumps and lighting (led) . 240volt , tv , saniflo, microwave ,

If i fit the victron 12-3000-120.what else do i need ? is there a link to show me?how many batteries ?a simple diagram?

[chris w]

Hi,i am , like MATRIX , ready to spend my hard eaned on an electrical system. i will have 12volt fridge and freezer , pumps and lighting (led) . 240volt , tv , saniflo, microwave ,

If i fit the victron 12-3000-120.what else do i need ? is there a link to show me?how many batteries ?a simple diagram?

 

If you are going to buy the Victron 12-3000-120 because you think you are buying a 3000W inverter then you are NOT. Even Victron don't say it's 3000W, they say it's 3000VA, which according to their figures is 2500 watts @ 25degC continuous but only 2000W @40degC continuous. 40degC is the ABYC spec and the temperature your engine space may well get up to on a warm day with the engine running.

 

I have nothing against the Victron - I'm sure it's a fine piece of kit but be aware of the specsmanship that is going on. Always compare the continuous WATTS @ 40degC figure when looking at competing products.

 

Chris

[Gibbo]

I have nothing against the Victron - I'm sure it's a fine piece of kit but be aware of the specsmanship that is going on. Always compare the continuous WATTS @ 40degC figure when looking at competing products.

 

Chris

 

Maybe the reason Sterling spec their inverters at 40 deg C and everyone else specs theirs at 25 deg C is because Sterlings' get dead hot?

 

 

I'll get mi coat.

 

Gibbo

[Sir Nibble]

My head hurts! Boat! Power station! 13A socket! House!

How can I have as much power available on my boat as I get from the national grid? Is there any way I can reduce my engine running hours? Where can I buy a 10kW solar panel that will fit in my pocket, cheap?

Sorry to take the proverbial, and the tripods with satellite dishes I see sprouting on the towpath are no ones business but the owners (and cyclists trying to get past) but every so often I think "Why are you on this boat? why not stay connected to the grid ashore?

[carlt]

My head hurts! Boat! Power station! 13A socket! House!

How can I have as much power available on my boat as I get from the national grid? Is there any way I can reduce my engine running hours? Where can I buy a 10kW solar panel that will fit in my pocket, cheap?

Sorry to take the proverbial, and the tripods with satellite dishes I see sprouting on the towpath are no ones business but the owners (and cyclists trying to get past) but every so often I think "Why are you on this boat? why not stay connected to the grid ashore?

Horses for courses Snibs.

 

We camp a lot. We go to the campsite, pitch the tent, go to the pub/restaurant, come back to the tent, go to bed, then get up and go out again. The tent is a place to sleep and have breakfast.

 

I'm always amazed at the number of people who arrive, pitch their tent, connect to the hook-up, put out their windbreaks(garden fence), light the gas barby, put up the gazebo and spend virtually the whole of their holiday on the site.

 

Their power/facility needs are far more than ours.

[tomsk]

I don't understand. YOUR Contract of Sale is with Sterling or whomsoever else you buy from. Where they are made is, from a legal standpoint, irrelevant. If you act as a Sterling supplier then Sterling are the people that need to repair/exchange units if they fail.

 

Why would you have to "chase all over Europe"?

 

What was the answer to my Mastervolt question BTW? viz: you stated, "Mastervolt give a 2 year standard warranty worldwide. (This is a true on site warranty not a post it back and we will send you a new one by return type one.)"

Would they come out to my rural mooring then if my inverter fails at no charge to me?

 

Chris

 

Regardless of the warranty package offered or claimed, if a particular manufacturer or re-badger doesn't perform following a valid warranty claim, running around claiming things inter alia 'from a legal standpoint' counts for very little unless you have the time, money and patience to go to law. I would much prefer to hear of excellent customer service and reliability rather than legal recourse and/or redress, but then I'm just a simple Womble

[chris w]

Regardless of the warranty package offered or claimed, if a particular manufacturer or re-badger doesn't perform following a valid warranty claim, running around claiming things inter alia 'from a legal standpoint' counts for very little unless you have the time, money and patience to go to law. I would much prefer to hear of excellent customer service and reliability rather than legal recourse and/or redress, but then I'm just a simple Womble

 

You missed the point. Gary seemed to be implying, or at least I inferred from the way he expressed himself, that he did not have time to chase "all over Europe". My point was that he only needs to deal with the company from whom he bought the equipment

 

Chris

[tomsk]

You missed the point. Gary seemed to be implying, or at least I inferred from the way he expressed himself, that he did not have time to chase "all over Europe". My point was that he only needs to deal with the company from whom he bought the equipment

 

Chris

 

 

Noted, but if they fail to perform what are the options?