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crosser

cant get engine to run.. HELP !!

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Yep. In which case I doubt it is fuel. A diesel engine with compression and fuel will fire up or smoke. You have the only one in the world that won't, must be worth a fortune.

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i think thats why i need to check the injectors as thats the end of the line for fuel and the only bit that i havnt checked...   im not sure how much pressure the injection pump should be pumping the fuel out?  it just seems so feeble compared to what i see on others on u tube...

i have an old 12v water pump in my shed, do you think i could use that to see if it makes a difference while im waiting for my new pump to arrive...  

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1 minute ago, crosser said:

i think thats why i need to check the injectors as thats the end of the line for fuel and the only bit that i havnt checked...   im not sure how much pressure the injection pump should be pumping the fuel out?  it just seems so feeble compared to what i see on others on u tube...

 

With an open-ended pipe, the pressure will be zero.

 

Once connected to an injector I'd guess the pressure in the pipe is perhaps 1,000psi, but this is dependent on the calibration of injector.

 

 

Still though, the Easy Start should make it run. Can you tell us exactly what you are spraying in there that doesn't work?

 

 

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How about a gallon can of clean diesel hung above the engine so it doesn't require a lift pump, a constant positive pressure for bleeding everything as well

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1 minute ago, crosser said:

i think thats why i need to check the injectors as thats the end of the line for fuel and the only bit that i havnt checked...   im not sure how much pressure the injection pump should be pumping the fuel out?  it just seems so feeble compared to what i see on others on u tube...

Injection pump pressures can be around 15000psi !

That is why I keep asking if fuel is dripping out or spitting forcefully.

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3 minutes ago, crosser said:

deffo just a drip...  no force at all...

oh its only a little 700cc 3 pot engine

It makes no difference!  The injection pressure is exactly the same as a big engine.

 

With all the pipes on, crack the injector union by just 1 flat, barely anything at all.

Crank it, you should get a sharp hiss and spurt of fuel from around the nut, you will hear it and see it as a mist there is that much pressure.

Edited by Boater Sam

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7 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Injection pump pressures can be around 15000psi !

That is why I keep asking if fuel is dripping out or spitting forcefully.

Isn't that the force coming leaving the injectors, not going into the injectors (like finger over the end of a hosepipe)

 

I've never had a huge pressure (15000psi) coming out when I have disconnected the pipe to an injector to bleed the system.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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ah ha !!   sounds like its the injection pump...    when turning the engine over with the pipes removed from injector pump fuel just dribble out there is no pressure at all.. i thought it should spurt a little at least...

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1 minute ago, crosser said:

ah ha !!   sounds like its the injection pump...    when turning the engine over with the pipes removed from injector pump fuel just dribble out there is no pressure at all.. i thought it should spurt a little at least...

So (again) why didn't it fire when you used Easy Start ?

 

Something is not stacking up.

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Isn't that the force coming leaving the injectors, not going into the injectors (like finger over the end of a hosepipe)

Pardon? Its the same! What goes in comes out. In fact considering the break off pressure of the injector, its greater in the pipe.

 

Please don't mention fingers over the ends of injection pipes, the OP could lose his finger or even hand.

 

This thread has not made sense from page one.

Edited by Boater Sam

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So (again) why didn't it fire when you used Easy Start ?

 

Something is not stacking up.

 

When an OP consistently ignores a line of enquiry, it usually leads to the source of the problem.

 

 

  • Greenie 1

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8 minutes ago, crosser said:

ah ha !!   sounds like its the injection pump...    when turning the engine over with the pipes removed from injector pump fuel just dribble out there is no pressure at all.. i thought it should spurt a little at least...

That sounds perfectly normal, the pressure will not build up when disconnected. 

  Have you examined the rocker gear with the cover removed? It will take no time at all. They should be moving when the engine is turned over. 

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sorry im not ignoring anyone...  i did say before that i was using a cheap brand of easy start but it is ether based so i would of thought it done something...  

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Just now, BWM said:

That sounds perfectly normal, the pressure will not build up when disconnected. 

  Have you examined the rocker gear with the cover removed? It will take no time at all. They should be moving when the engine is turned over. 

He is getting suck and blow inlet and exhaust so cam must be turning.

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9 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

He is getting suck and blow inlet and exhaust so cam must be turning.

That would depend on exactly how it had failed but i'd agree it is more likely functional, clutching at straws really with this ongoing, bizarre problem. 

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If all is as Crosser says then either its not turning over fast enough, which is very common after a layup, but unless its really slow I would expect smoke of some kind or there is no compression. So far a proper compression test has not been done as far as I can see but again by what he said I would expect some smoke and an attempt to start on easy start.

 

Occasionally on the hire fleet after a winter layup we got engines that spun over well, sucked & blew, were properly bled but woudl not start. We found that occasionally carbon from valves had fallen off and jammed the valve partially open but not far enough for a piston to hot it. 24 volts to the starter usually sorted it but there is no way I can suggest the OP tries that and I am not even sure this has any relevance. Too many contradictions.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, crosser said:

sorry im not ignoring anyone...  i did say before that i was using a cheap brand of easy start but it is ether based so i would of thought it done something...  

 

So what was it, for about the fourth time of asking?!!

 

Edit to add:

 

On reflection, I don't think it matters what you were spraying in there. What matters is that it wasn't Bradex Easy Start.

 

I suggest you buy a genuine, new can of Bradex Easy Start (£4 from Halfords) and spray some around the air intake, then crank the engine over. Tell the board the result. Whatever happens, it will reveal a lot about the state of compression in your engine, and might rule out one third of the possible reasons for it not starting. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
Add a bit

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proper can of easy start it is...  just to rule something else out...       the one im using is auto extreme engine start spray £2.99 a can

  • Greenie 1

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This question is not for the OP but at the mechanically bent members here

 

If you completely disconnect an injector pipe from the injector and the diesel all drains out how many revolutions of the engine are required to refill that pipe before you start injecting diesel into the engine. When ever I have needed to bleed the injection pump I have only just slackened the union between the injector and the pipe to allow the air to be forced out.

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6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

This question is not for the OP but at the mechanically bent members here

 

If you completely disconnect an injector pipe from the injector and the diesel all drains out how many revolutions of the engine are required to refill that pipe before you start injecting diesel into the engine. When ever I have needed to bleed the injection pump I have only just slackened the union between the injector and the pipe to allow the air to be forced out.

I can't give an accurate number but typically I find the answer is not too many, maybe 10 or 20, sometimes less. far more if the low pressure side still has air in it on some pumps.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, crosser said:

ah ha !!   sounds like its the injection pump...    when turning the engine over with the pipes removed from injector pump fuel just dribble out there is no pressure at all.. i thought it should spurt a little at least...

Not to me it does not, if anything it sounds like lack of compression or cranking speed.

 

You have an inline pump and about the only thing that just about might fit the given symptoms pump wise is a rusted up control rack or governor. As long as no water was in the pump I just do not see this happening over four months.

 

I suppose it is just about possible the pump timing has slipped but I can't see that as likely on a gear driven system.

  • Greenie 1

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im thinking cranking speed or lack of it...   is there anyway of improving it or does it mean new starter motor?

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6 minutes ago, crosser said:

im thinking cranking speed or lack of it...   is there anyway of improving it or does it mean new starter motor?

A large starter battery that is fully charged should do it, and ensure any decompression equipment is used ( if fitted).

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