Victory narrowboats

[WotEver]

Update on this. The website appears to have been pulled. 

[Jo_]

https://victory-narrowboats.business.site/

 

That's still there and it's the same lot, judging by (sparse) content

[BilgePump]

I sincerely hope that this is because the hosting company have finally acted and not because the site has snared someone and parted them from their money. The DNS record still points to namecheap hosting.

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, Jo_ said:

https://victory-narrowboats.business.site/

 

That's still there and it's the same lot, judging by (sparse) content

My mistake, I was looking for www.

[BilgePump]

Can I just point out that the address https://victory-narrowboats.business.site/ is as far as we know a legitimate small company. See the comments by the OP and owner of that single page site.

 

It is the fake brokerage site with ridiculously cheap boats that was on display at victory-narrowboats.c0.uk (no link for scammers) that caused the OP to draw our attention to it in the first place. It is actually still live  now I check ?

[WotEver]

That website address is odd and I can’t find any listings through icann, nominet etc. Anybody know more than me about address formatting and how to search more effectively?

[WotEver]

Namecheap, who Nominet list as the hosting company, are finally taking an interest (their legal dept that is). 

[BilgePump]

31 minutes ago, WotEver said:

That website address is odd and I can’t find any listings through icann, nominet etc. Anybody know more than me about address formatting and how to search more effectively?

As far as I understand

 

.site is the top level domain (TLD) (operated by DotSite Inc)

business.site is the second level domain which is registered to Google (registrar MarkMonitor provide management services to big brands).

Google give out third level domains free to businesses at addresses like bobthebuilder.business.site .-  consequently, you can't search for registrant info on these third level domains via usual WHOIS lookup.

 

It is like me giving out free third level domains for you to build a site at for example yourname.mybusinessname.com . The registry only has details related to mybusinessname.com. Anything at the third level will be managed by the nameservers I have pointed mybusinessname.com to and not known to the registrar or TLD registry operator.

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, BilgePump said:

As far as I understand

 

.site is the top level domain (TLD) (operated by DotSite Inc)

business.site is the second level domain which is registered to Google (registrar MarkMonitor provide management services to big brands).

Google give out third level domains free to businesses at addresses like bobthebuilder.business.site .-  consequently, you can't search for registrant info on these third level domains via usual WHOIS lookup.

 

It is like me giving out free third level domains for you to build a site at for example yourname.mybusinessname.com . The registry only has details related to mybusinessname.com. Anything at the third level will be managed by the nameservers I have pointed mybusinessname.com to and not known to the registrar or TLD registry operator.

Cheers. Makes sense.

 

GDPR makes it more difficult these days too, even for ‘normal’ domains. 

 

Oddly, Namecheap denied that the fraudulent site was registered with them so I gave them a copy/paste from Nominet. They’re investigating, whatever that means. 

[MtB]

6 hours ago, WotEver said:

They’re investigating, whatever that means. 

 

I'd say it means they have filed your complaint in the bin.

 

 

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'd say it means they have filed your complaint in the bin.

Well, they responded after all this time to say that they don’t appear to host the site so I’ve asked them why Nominet lists their nameservers then...

 

We’ll see what, if anything, they do. I guess it’ll take another few weeks

[MtB]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Well, they responded after all this time to say that they don’t appear to host the site so I’ve asked them why Nominet lists their nameservers then...

 

We’ll see what, if anything, they do. I guess it’ll take another few weeks

 

 

Sounds to me as though the person you are dealing with knows even less than us about the nature of web hosting!

 

The name servers are the computers that tell your or my browser where on the internet to go to find the files to download, when we want to view the website associated with any given URL.

 

The name servers are therefore not necessarily the same computers (in fact usually aren't) as host the site itself which serves up the files of the fraudulent website. They might be owned by the same company, but not necessarily. Basically, name hosting is a separate function from web hosting.

 

Not many people know this, and it makes one's brian hurt initially to grasp this. I suspect they might come back in a few weeks and tell you this!

 

All the above is AIUI. Someone who knows properly might be along soon to correct some details. 

 

 

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Sounds to me as though the person you are dealing with knows even less than us about the nature of web hosting!

 

The name servers are the computers that tell your or my browser where on the internet to go to find the files to download, when we want to view the website associated with any given URL.

 

The name servers are therefore not necessarily the same computers (in fact usually aren't) as host the site itself which serves up the files of the fraudulent website. They might be owned by the same company, but not necessarily. Basically, name hosting is a separate function from web hosting.

 

Not many people know this, and it makes one's brian hurt initially to grasp this. I suspect they might come back in a few weeks and tell you this!

 

All the above is AIUI. Someone who knows properly might be along soon to correct some details. 

 

 

And what is more, the page as served to you may well contain stuff from a large number of places (eg libraries of Javascript functions)

[MtB]

44 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

And what is more, the page as served to you may well contain stuff from a large number of places (eg libraries of Javascript functions)

 

Oh yes. What I said is only the start of it! Was just giving WotEver the heads up that the name host is not the firm to go after if you need a site taken down. One needs to go after the web host. 

 

 

[Mike Todd]

28 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Oh yes. What I said is only the start of it! Was just giving WotEver the heads up that the name host is not the firm to go after if you need a site taken down. One needs to go after the web host. 

 

 

Whilst less likely it is possible that the material objected to is linked from the host page to somewhere else. Whilst much us ultimately discoverable, it can take time and skill, not always freely available from the money making sites!

[MtB]

 

Yes in the case of static and defamatory stuff the host serving up the files is usually pretty clear. But here we are looking for a chat window within which conversations are suspected where the fraud gets constructed, and the actual dishonest money transaction takes place directly between banks as a result of those transient and probably unsaved (except by the perpetrators) conversations. 

 

 

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Sounds to me as though the person you are dealing with knows even less than us about the nature of web hosting!

 

The name servers are the computers that tell your or my browser where on the internet to go to find the files to download, when we want to view the website associated with any given URL.

 

The name servers are therefore not necessarily the same computers (in fact usually aren't) as host the site itself which serves up the files of the fraudulent website. They might be owned by the same company, but not necessarily. Basically, name hosting is a separate function from web hosting.

 

Not many people know this, and it makes one's brian hurt initially to grasp this. I suspect they might come back in a few weeks and tell you this!

 

All the above is AIUI. Someone who knows properly might be along soon to correct some details. 

 

 

Yes but the same company (Namecheap) are also listed as the registrar, so they can’t claim total ignorance of the site as they have to date. 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Yes but the same company (Namecheap) are also listed as the registrar, so they can’t claim total ignorance of the site as they have to date. 

 

But, but.....

 

The Registrar is yet a different thing again!

 

What they do is bill the owner for the domain name, and point the domain name at the name servers.....

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

But, but.....

 

The Registrar is yet a different thing again!

 

What they do is bill the owner for the domain name, and point the domain name at the name servers.....

Yes, their nameservers. Switch them off and it’s bye-bye to the site. Not that I expect them to. 

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Yes, their nameservers. Switch them off and it’s bye-bye to the site. Not that I expect them to. 

 

I think it would have to be by-bye to all the sites under the subdomain one level up, so that is never gonna happen.

 

But I'm not sure. For something so simple, its bloody comperlicated. 

 

 

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I think it would have to be by-bye to all the sites under the subdomain one level up, so that is never gonna happen.

 

But I'm not sure. For something so simple, its bloody comperlicated. 

What I meant was to stop pointing the domain to their nameservers. I’ve swapped nameservers a couple of times and that’s easy but I don’t know how hard it is to simply disconnect a domain so that it has no nameserver. 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

What I meant was to stop pointing the domain to their nameservers. I’ve swapped nameservers a couple of times and that’s easy but I don’t know how hard it is to simply disconnect a domain so that it has no nameserver. 

 

Technically it's very easy. Happens every time a domain name owner fails to pay the renewal fees.

 

But the Registrar is unlikely I think to do this as they have no interest in or liability for the use to which the domain is being put.

 

But IANAE.

[Jennifer McM]

Unbelievable this is happening and authorities don't appear to be taking steps.

 

Try asking for help on http://www.webhostingtalk.com/ this looks to be a forum of 'experts' in the hosting field.

 

A lot of hosting companies looks to use it, basically no doubt to pitch their services. 

 

 

There are several Namecheap's T&Cs that could be used 

"Legal Purposes

The web hosting and reseller hosting account and/or related electronic services can only be used for legal purposes under all applicable international, federal, provincial, and municipal laws. The intent of Namecheap is to provide space to serve web documents, not as an off-site storage area for electronic files and is governed by the AUP. Violations of the AUP or any other provisions of this Agreement may result in termination of the Services provided by Namecheap, with or without the grant of a notice or cure period, such notice or cure period to be granted at the sole discretion of Namecheap based upon the severity of the violation. Namecheap reserves the right to refuse Service if any of the content within, or any links from, the Your website is deemed illegal, misleading, or obscene, or is otherwise in breach of Namecheap 's AUP, in the sole and absolute opinion of Namecheap. You agree that Namecheap shall not be liable to you for loss or damages that may result from its refusal to host your website or provided the Services under this Agreement."

 

https://www.namecheap.com/legal/hosting/tos.aspx

Edited June 6, 2019 by Jennifer McM

[h2O_colors]

Hey guys, the website is back. Clicked around on some cheap boats listed on iNautia late at night (my boat search is running into brick walls so I am straying from the usual sites) - ended up here: https://victory-narrowboats.co.uk/ . Some of the boats are also listed on the Sales Pontoon.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, h2O_colors said:

Hey guys, the website is back. Clicked around on some cheap boats listed on iNautia late at night (my boat search is running into brick walls so I am straying from the usual sites) - ended up here: https://victory-narrowboats.co.uk/ . Some of the boats are also listed on the Sales Pontoon.

Isn't this the one that is the 'Fake' website - with the 'staff' pictures being stolen from New & Used Boat Co ?