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Hi, roughly how wide should a sacrificial chine be? Does the attached photo look okay or a bit worn? It's a Liverpool Narrowboat boat! Thanks
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Our boat is about 7 years since the previous owner had the Hull 2 pack epoxy applied. ( He never skimped, so I believe it was done to a good standard ). But I've hit the odd thing underwater, the rocks on the side of the Oxford canal weren't so great heading down to the Thames. So I'm thinking time to take a look. Does this make sense ? Its just out of the water for 1 day ( need to book up much further in advance for the week long spots ). If you use a power washer will it harm the coating ? ( Ok its my risk, but interested in opinions ). What I'm looking to see is can I go on with a few years or some patching with 2 pack over any issues, or do I need to line up a more serious job ? Interested to hear what your opinions are ! Tim ( Suikerbossie )
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We are in the process of over plating our swim and a length of the side. We would obviously like to ensure that any further rust damage is limited. We were thinking of using cold galvanized paint on the seams and other areas. Can we black on top of that please. Soon after. Or does anyone recommend a high zinc primer which can be blacked over ASAP. I know it’s a crap time of year to be over plating. Thank you.
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So I have just *TODAY* bought my first narrowboat. Super excited to get on the water! The surveyor was impressed with the steel, saying it was impeccable condition... largely because the hull was shot blasted and had a very good layer of 2-pack epoxy put on when it was only 2 years old (it's now 17). The surveyor thought that after the first epoxy layer it then then been blacked with bitumen. Meanwhile the previous owner said that this was not the case it's always been re-epoxy'd.. clearly without the shot blasting each time. I've no reason to doubt the previous owner, and a plausible explanation seems to be that the boat has never had any bitumen, but the subsequent coats of epoxy (after the first one) were not adhering very well (perhaps the old surface wasn't being prepared properly?) I'm not sure whether to just get it jet-washed and then put normal bitumen blacking on (this was the surveyors suggestion, an approach he was keen on and thought was sensible) or whether to try and get the epoxy re-done properly... thoughts?! Any input appreciated!
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Hi I am about to black my narrowboat which has previously been done with Coflex VT (a 'Comastic' type - now banned). I have tried to research for a suitable product to use but there are some very confusing/misleading websites out there - must be run by politicians! Ballistic Black seems to be suitable for going over the stuff already on according to one website. Has anyone used this stuff over a vinyl tar product and, if so, was it any good? Thanks in anticipation.
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Hi, This is my first post on the forum so Greetings! I'm a livaboard continuous cruiser who has been on my boat for just over 3 years. I had her blacked when I bought her but was not involved in the process. She is now a little bit overdue. I have 2 months off work and am looking to take her out the water and black her myself. I have time but am on a budget. I am looking for an affordable yard/marina where I can spend two weeks on the hard to take my time derusting and prepping the hull sides as well as the base plate before reblacking. I'm currently in West London but am prepared to travel for up to around 10 days per journey. I will need to live on the boat whilst she is on the hard. Does anyone have some suitable suggestions? The best I've found so far are Willowbridge Marina for DIY but I am hoping to find something a bit less costly. Base plate is not negotiable and I definitely need access to it. I'd prefer to be on the hard rather than a dry dock as I'm slower than most people at DIY stuff. I like to take more time but do a thorough job
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hi all and thanks already for the wealth of knowledge that I've taken away fro this forum. Ive just got my bill of sale on my 40ft narrow boat and am going through the list of things the survey brought up. Currently she is epoxy coated and surveyor stated could do with being redone soon, not urgent. my question is this, ive had variying quotes for work to be done From £1000 TO £2.5K for 2pk epoxy to be done. does epoxy need to be blasted back to be recoated? some of the quotes say that winter no good to do as temperature means wont go off, is it worth waiting till spring/summer? ive been told about COFLEX as an alternative, its comparable on price so what is the difference, pros cons? basically have epoxy and want to know if I would be shooting myself by using something else, epoxy seems to be highly thought off? any tips advice opinions welcome, Duncan
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Hi All, If you use 2-pack epoxy primer (post sandbalsting), do you have to put 2-pack epoxy over the top of this when you come to re-do the hull? (I know the lifetime is meant to be alot longer therefore the need to re-do should be less). And, am I right in thinking you have to put 2-pack expoxy onto bare steel, therefore to re-do the hull you would need to sandblast again and re-apply? thanks!
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I can't find any record of my having posted these notes on using Jotamastic 2-part epoxy blacking on my boat and they might be useful to some so here they are: Jotamastic 87 Method & Notes 01. None of the following is guaranteed. Check everything with the official documentation. This information is provided in good faith and is as accurate as I can make it. It is my notes to myself, which might be of interest to others doing this for the first time. 02. I obtained the paint, Jotamastic 87 (J87) from SML Paints & Coatings - fast delivery, excellent telephone service, fairly good website - strongly recommended. Tel 01258 862132 W: www.smlpaintsandcoatings.co.uk Materials needed (per 4.6L paint where applicable) 01. Hard hat, Eye mask, Fumes mask - this paint is evil stuff and is particularly harmful to eyes. 02. 100 rubber gloves nitrile from SML - very good 03. Pot opener from SML - very good! 04. Pot A & Pot B Jotamastic 87(standard grade). SML provide both automatically. 05. Tissues 06. Waste sack 07. Knife to open pot A plastic bag 08. Stirrers - 1 big & 6 small (available from SML but I used bits of dowelling) 09. Scales from SML (very good) - mixing is done by weight 10. Mixing pots from SML - 1L x 6 11. Writing pad & 2 pencils- for doing the 11% calculation 12. Hammer 13. Brushes - 3” - x 6 - use-once-and-throw-away brushes from Toolstation at 63p each 14. Clock - or any other easy to see timepiece Method Used 01. Remove pot A from plastic bag & save the bag for later storage. 02. Open lid with opener - easy 03. Stir pot A - takes about 15 mins, do about twice a day (stirring small pot B not attempted). This is crucial as the contents separate markedly. 04. Do not use tare (including mixpot weight in zero) as the scales reset themselves after 120 secs and you could get results that lose the weight of the pot. 05. Switch scales on & wait for zero with nothing on it 06. Weigh empty mixpot usually 94g 07. Remove mixpot from scales 08. Pour A into mixpot until about 2/3 full max or less as required 09. Switch scales on & wait for zero with nothing on it 10. Weigh mixpot 11. Write down mixpot weight - this is the TOTAL POT WEIGHT 12. Remove mixpot from scales 13. Replace lid on pot A - protect hammer with tissue and wipe pot A clean as best possible 14. Deduct mixpot weight to obtain paint A weight 15. Calculate 11% of paint A weight 16. ADD the 11% of paint A weight to the TOTAL POT WEIGHT to give the FINAL POT WEIGHT 17. Open pot B 18. Switch scales on & wait for zero with nothing on it 19. Put the mixpot on scales 20. Pour pot B into the mixpot slowly as the adding amount is small until the FINAL POT WEIGHT is shown on the scales. 21. Steady is best as it is hard to get small globules out. It is possible to get it exact, it is not too difficult. 22. Put pot B down on 2 layers of tissue as B is sticky & messy and much harder to manipulate without mess than A. 23. Remove mixpot from scales 24. Note the time - your pot live time starts now. 25. Replace the lid on pot B 26. Wipe pot B roughly as it is not possible to get it fully clean. Don’t get tissue stuck in it. Don’t hit the lid too hard, the tin crushes. 27. Use a small stirrer to mix the contents of the mixpot for at least 5 mins 28. Leave until about 10 (about 5 more) mins from the noted mix time for the mixture to acquire its working consistency. Before this it may be too thin and hard to apply at the correct thickness. This 10 mins is known as the “induction time”. 29. Use a 3” brush to apply the paint to the surface. 30. Start low down and work up to avoid getting it on your head. 31. Brush both up & down & right & left as it visibly improves the thoroughness of the application. 32. You have an absolute maximum of 2 hours (and sometimes less) to apply the paint before it goes off from the start-of-mixing time. 33. It gets markedly thicker after about 1 hour and then is slower to apply. 34. Hot weather seems to make it go off slightly faster. 35. It is touch dry in about 7 hours. 36. It is overcoatable in about 10 hours minimum. It can be overcoated later for some time, but (I think, I have not checked) it is best done within 48 hours. (if you leave it too long you may have to sand it again, I don't know as I didn't take any holidays.) 37. It is fully cured and ready for service after 7days. General notes 01. The paint can be applied over very light or flash rust without detriment. 02. The paint can be applied to damp surfaces. See the technical documentation for references to what they mean by damp. They distinguish between moist, damp, and wet surfaces. 03. You need to buy the Standard Jotamastic 87 paint for use in ambient temperatures above 10degrees C and the Winter grade for temperatures below this. NOTE The above instructions refer to the standard grade, setting & mixing times for the Winter grade are different! 04. I derived the figure of 11% by weight of pot B to pot A from the sample weight charts supplied with the paint and also available on the website. Check this yourself!! Note that no instructions of any sort are on the paint cans themselves. 05. I used 1L mixpots about 2/3 full and I was able to apply it in about 45 to 75 mins depending on the awkwardness of the surface. This gives about 6 mixes per 4.5L pot A tin. Other people may be faster than me. 06. It is said that it is possible to mix the whole of pot B into the whole of pot B (there is room in the pot A tin) and apply the lot in the 2 hours. I suspect this needs a team of people applying it. 07. One 4.5 L tin of Jotamastic 87 is just about enough to provide 1 coat on my 60ft narrowboat (excluding baseplate & uxter plate). I used three tins to provide 3 coats. 08. Other Jotamastic variants exist, as primers, with aluminium, and as top coats etc, but I stuck with plain 87 for all three coats as it claims it can do this. 09. A CWDF member suggested getting different colours to make it easier to see when putting subsequent layers on. I did not do this and it was at times very hard to distinguish so that may be the best thing to do. 10. I used a new brush for each mix, using cheap use-once-and-throw-away brushes from Toolstation at 63p each. These did shed the occasional hair as you would expect but I ignored these as there is little time for such finesse. 11. I did this blacking over an unknown previous two-pack blacking, applied by my boat-builder 5 years ago. This blacking was still good over much over the boat but peeled off easily in some small areas particularly near the anodes leaving perfect metal visible. 12. The edges of the good blacking were sanded down but not brilliantly and when painted with J87, the edges in some cases curled up which is not good. There is a limit to what I can do so I mostly broke these off and applied more paint. 13. Most of the surface preparation was done with a Ryobi Orbital Sander using 120grit discs. I think 80 would have been better but I did not have any available. Rusty bits were attacked with a 4.5” angle grinder using a bevel wire brush. This got rid of loose rust but did not get into pits very well. I did not use it more extensively as the vibration of the grinder (a brand new Erbauer) was more than my hands can cope with for very long. I believe the Jotamastic instructions warn against wire brushing producing a too highly polished surface that reduces adhesion but I have not checked this. 14. Initial cleaning was done with a jet wash by a third party. 15. All the retained blacking was sanded. The dust was taken off one part with a vacuum cleaner with brush, another by washing, and the rest by brushing with a dry sponge. The dry sponge appeared to do the best job and the wet wash the worst. None of them were impressive. 16. Of the corrosion found, 90% was caused by damage to the paint surface. The principle causes seem to be rubbing against tyres used as mooring fenders, and hitting stuff, particularly a stop gate on the BCN (Thame Valley?) that was half open and not seen. 17. I don’t know how much damage was caused by moving through ice as I avoid doing it. I do not know if any was due to passing traffic through ice as I moor online with either side facing the traffic. The damage was markedly more on one side of the bow than the other.
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Hi everyone, we are new to the community and new to boating, so looking for some advice on a boat we are considering buying (for a small business with commercial mooring; not live aboard). Before viewing the boat we were advised (by boating friends, sadly not local so couldn't come along) to look out for rust on the waterline and in the bilge. There seems to be rust in both areas (see pics), though we're unsure how superficial. The owner unfortunately has not had a survey done, though it has been out for reblacking about three years ago and he says should be slightly overdue another three coats now (Comastic). It's a 55ft 1999 narrowboat which will also be needing a new engine. Obviously we'd be looking to get a full survey done before commiting anything, but my question is, based on these issues, is it worth it at all or would it be better (particularly given our inexperience) to walk away (or possibly try to haggle down substantially)? We're not shy of doing the work, but would like to pay a fair price and know what we might be walking into. Perhaps estimated price ranges (for boat or work) would also be useful, though I know this might not really be enough info to go on. Thanks in advance! Attached are some pics we took of the rusty areas:
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We own "Barnet" a Harland & Wolff "Large Woolwich" which is regulary docked and maintained. Back in 1997 we ran out of "blacking" whilst at Bradley dry dock, in a hurry to finish the job we used B&Q trade black to finish the hull off. Several years later in 2007 we grit blasted the hull to bare metal for a total repaint. Everything came off easily - except for the B&Q black!! We thought this was odd at the time, how come this cheap paint was so tough? Having seen how well it adhered we decided not to use two pack or the usual suspects for "blacking" but to pop down to B& Q and buy a load of trade black. This we did and duly painted the hull. At the end of 2014 "Barnet" had a major docking and a fair number of repairs were carried out to the hull, we decided that it was time for another coat of blacking. So the team blasted the hull ready for its new coat. It actually didn't need one, the B&Q black was in most cases as sound as the day it went on in 2007! Well we were surprised, ok where the new metal was we had to paint that but this cheap black paint had stood the test of time yet again. We popped off down to B&Q and purchased the next lot and duly repainted the hull, if it lasts this well its doing a grand job of protecting the steel, and better still what else will paint a 71ft hull for just under £120? A lesson to be learned here, how many of the common used blacking compounds are actually designed for inland waterway use? Most aren't, they are for salt water protection where "contact" with other surfaces is unknown as such, hardly comparable to a canal boat's amount of contact. I would seriously reccomed this paint to anyone blacking their hull, its done a cracking job on ours and some of the 1997 paint is still there today.
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I see Debdale Wharf are offering a blacking process they claim will last 10 years: they spray molten zinc onto the hull (including the bottom) and overcoat with an epoxy blacking. It's not cheap but might it be worth the money?
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Hi! I've got an old narrowboat covered in old bitumen. Most of it has been replated but budget ran dry for the front and back, which is a decent thickness anyway. The original plan was to paint a few layers of solvent based red oxide over all of it, then a few layers of bitumen. I'm a bit concerned about painting over the old bitumen. It's really stubborn stuff! Tried to get as much off as possible, but as it's unlikely it will all be removed I'm wondering what the best way would be to go about reblacking it. I've read a little about aluminium based primers, or bitumen sealers. Does anyone know anything about them? Any other suggestions also welcome! Unfortunately no funds for sandblasting or any such luxuries. Grinders just smear it about, and time is short! Any help much appreciated with all the gratitude! Thanks, Sama
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Jotun's website shows the above as designed to be applied by brush or roller to surfaces where optimum preparation is not possible or desired. The spec asks for preparation to st2, which is hand tool and hand sanding, not even machine tooled let alone grit blasted. Overcoating of sound previous coatings doesn't appear to be an issue either, and there's no mention of adverse reactions to bitumen or the like. At 85 quid for 10 litres and easy 1:1 ratio two-pack mixing, I'm struggling to see why it's use isn't widespread but no-one ever mentions it in blacking discussions. Am i missing something? Has anyone used it?
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Where do old boats go when they die? - don't say 'to the bottom of the canal' - but that is likely if neglected. They leak and sink. Then CRT are stuck with the problem of moving it and charging the owner, if known. What does CRT do with a wreck - sell it? - then what does the new owner do with it . How long can a boat be kept going - and at what stage does it become uneconomical to maintain it? - then back to the first question - where do boats go when they die? Underlying this question is concern for the remaining life of my boat - it is 40 years old and rusty and completely watertight (bone dry in the bilge, not a drop of water anywhere) - but I assume it needs serious work on the hull due to rusting - at least blacking - and maybe plating - but to what extent ? I am planning to take it to a boatyard for a hull survey - but that will only tell me it needs work - but to what extent ? I would like some help in assessing effectiveness of different types of remedial work and how they reflect in estimated life of a boat and the sales value - with a view to selling it.
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Hi. Just found this site! Can anyone suggest what to use for blacking the hull of our boat? We have had her four years now, and want to take her out to black the hull later in the year Any tips or recommendations would be gratefully received many thanks
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Good morning all, I'm a longtime reader of the forums but this is my first post! I've just completed the purchase of a 57 foot trad stern narrowboat, I am over the moon as I have wanted one since the age of 18, that was a fair amount of time ago! To cut a long story short, I completed the survey, which was undertaken by a guy named Will Flannery, whom I cannot recommend enough! He found that there were some minor pits which would need addressing, I contacted the boat yards welder who advised puddle welding should do the trick. There are a fair few around the water line, but they aren't deep enough to cause an issue... yet. The boat has recently been blacked so this will require dressing it back to expose the pits so they can be filled in. My question is, is it okay to locally re-black the immediate area around the welding? Or is it more advisable to remove the coating and redo it once welding work has been completed? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Doug
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I am having difficulty removing the the old blacking above the waterline. Above the water line there is a lot of old blacking which is coming off in many places in the lower layers even after the surface flakes are removed. Using the angle grinder with a wire brush seems to take it back in the most frail areas but it is starting to look like a moonscape with the poorest areas going back to the steel and the better areas stubbornly staying on and getting more polished than removed. Is there a better way? I am considering a needle gun. Thanks. Tom
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Hi All, I am about to have the hull of my newly acquired 'Norseman' hydroblasted. The guys doing the work will then immediately coat her and have suggested putting Interzone 954 on as this is what they routinely use. Does anyone have any experience of this product? Or any helpful tips, I am assuming that this should give me about 5 years before I need to re-black? Thanks Simone
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I am in the process of choosing a boat to live aboard, is bigger always better? What would be a ball park figure for lifting and blacking a 60ft as opposed to a 30ft Narrowboat for example, and are there other costs aside from the license and insurance which increase with hull size? Any help and advice welcome.
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hello, i am selling a boat and the survey is back and the buyers are saying that it will need to be sand/ grit blasted and epoxy painted as she is pitted and more than expected for a boat of 2.5 years old. What causes pitting? What is the best option to remedy it, ensure the boat doesn't deteriorate rapidly? And is epoxy the same thing as 2pack? It has just recently been cleaned, scraped and blacked with 2 coats of bitumen. she's a 45 ft widebeam. Can you tell me also i) a rough cost for sand/ grit blasting? ii) a rough cost for epoxy 2 pack? i am trying to get a sense of what work is needed and what I can allow for when we re-negotiate the price. Thank you!
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Hi we recently had to have some work on the base of our hull as well as blacking. Our boat has been in the water for 48hrs and the blacking is appearing faded at the base of the hull? For instance where plating has been added is appearing silver through the water. It is along the side of the bank we have been moored but I would have thought if enough blacking was placed it would appear blac for longer than 2 days? Is this normal/ too soon? Can anyone give advice? We paid someone to complete the blacking also.
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Hi, My surveyor has recommended grit blasting of my hull, inspection of the base plate and pit welding on the sides, and base plate if required. 1. Can anyone recommend a good yard to get this done at? 2. Debdale Wharf offer zinc spraying. Has anyone had this done? In your experience was it worth doing? 3. How do you touch up 2 pack epoxy once it starts to wear? (I've only used bitumen for the last 14 years). Do you just add another coat when it's due for blacking again? Thanks in advance.
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Hi, I am a newby and about to purchase our first boat - I am wondering - does the bottom of the hull get blacked? I can imagine it's difficult due the the blocks that the boat stands on but then does that mean the bottom is left vulnerable to rust?
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Paint quantities when blacking and ideas on general prep.
Mattlr89 posted a topic in New to Boating?
Hi, I'm sure this has been covered ad nauseam, but is someone able to recommend approx. paint quantities when blacking as well as the best ways to prep the metal? Here are my thought's so far... I'm planning on doing a bottom coat of Rylards Premium Protection, then a middle coat of Rytex and finally a another coat of Premium Protection along the waterline. How much of each product would you recommend for a 70ft narrowboat? Is it also recommended to use thinners with the initial coat, so that the paint fills pitted areas better? When it comes to preparation, I plan to pressure wash, paint scrap and use a tungsten sanding disc on an angle grinder to prepare the metal before painting. Thanks in advance,! Matt- 4 replies
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