Hire Boats Banned on Thames PLA waters

[nine9feet]

" Following a minor incident involving a holiday narrowboat, the Port of London Authority (PLA) has decided hire craft are classified as ‘commercial’ and have banned them from the Thames Tideway."

 

Seems a bit extreme! Suspect some kind of political game is being played here

 

See more at boatingbusiness.com linky

[MtB]

About time too....

 

 

MtB

[churchward]

When I last hired on the Thames which admittedly was a long time ago (early to mid 1970's) part of the conditions of hire was that we did not go beyond Teddington.

[Bettie Boo]

Seems a rather bizarre solution to me.

 

Seems they are assuming that the majority of hire boat operators are inexperienced?

 

We met a fair few this past summer & fall that have loads of experience & have been hiring or years rather than buying a boat.

[alan_fincher]

Personally I would have thought any ban on Brentford to Teddington (or vice versa) is overkill.

 

However from various stories around hire boats on the passage to Limehouse, it seems fairly reasonable to me that it should be banned.

 

It was very unclear to me how they were adequately getting around the requirement to have a properly certified radio operator on the boat.

[Alistair Anderson]

I hired a Black Prince boat this year, with the intention of making the tidal passage from Limehouse to Brentford. It did not happen because the Hanwell Locks were closed, but that's another story. I had to produce my VHF certificate on arrival, and a copy was made for their records. If I had not had a certificate I could have booked a radio operator for an extra £150.

 

In my view, what matters is experience and not whether it is a private or hire boat.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Some recent IWA coverage on this here - implies that discussions are underway but no decisions taken?

 

The thread on the incident (August 2014) is here.

 

I can't find anything more formal on the PLA website.

[NickF]

 

 

In my view, what matters is experience and not whether it is a private or hire boat.

I absolutely agree Alistair. We should not judge people by their boats!

 

If you follow this argument to its logical conclusion hire boats should be banned from locks in Bath as several have sunk there, and may be we should ban private boats from the HNC as all the sinkings there have been of private boats.

[Alistair Anderson]

Some recent IWA coverage on this here - implies that discussions are underway but no decisions taken?

 

The thread on the incident (August 2014) is here.

 

I can't find anything more formal on the PLA website.

Thanks very much. I will look out for more information from IWA.

[NickF]

Some recent IWA coverage on this here - implies that discussions are underway but no decisions taken?

 

The thread on the incident (August 2014) is here.

 

I can't find anything more formal on the PLA website.

The incident that seems to have sparked this decision happened at Hammersmith and the proposed ban includes Brentford to Teddington, Whilst then tideway at Brentford is not to be underestimated it is not the same as the tideway at Hammersmith where the tide really can move fast.

[Alistair Anderson]

I absolutely agree Alistair. We should not judge people by their boats!

 

If you follow this argument to its logical conclusion hire boats should be banned from locks in Bath as several have sunk there, and may be we should ban private boats from the HNC as all the sinkings there have been of private boats.

It worries me that hire companies emphasise 'no experience necessary'. It makes sense to start boating with people who have had some experience.

[Proper Job]

..........................................

 

It was very unclear to me how they were adequately getting around the requirement to have a properly certified radio operator on the boat.

 

?

 

The same way as anyone else does it. One of the people on the boat has a VHF Certificate and a hand held VHF. Why would it be different for a hire boat?

[NickF]

It worries me that hire companies emphasise 'no experience necessary'. It makes sense to start boating with people who have had some experience.

Yes I have to agree with that Alistair, it is the experience and expertise that counts, I have thought that some hire companies make it sound simple and almost encourage inexperienced crews to tackle things that may be too challenging.

[NickF]

 

?

 

The same way as anyone else does it. One of the people on the boat has a VHF Certificate and a hand held VHF. Why would it be different for a hire boat?

The one time i did it I took an RYA tidal instructor with me to satisfy the hire company and the radio requirements. (Thank you Proper Job for recommending one to me albeit a few years ago now!)

 

Interestingly when I suggested that my brother who has a VHF radio and licence could accompany me the hire company said no as they insisted i had someone on board who knew the tideway. (Oxfordshire Narrowboats)

[Leo No2]

I think it is important to remember that the tideway downstream of say, Vauxhaul, is a busy commercial waterway. You do need experience, you need to keep a sharp lookout through 360 degrees and know what to do when something untoward happens. The fact that 'pleasure' boats are allowed on a busy commercial waterway is great but I think that some of the commercial operators tolerate us and others would like to see us 'banned'. If there are more incidents then the pressure for a ban will undoubtedly increase.

 

The age old question always arises; if I haven't got experience, how do I gain it. The best way I can think of is to join St Pancras Crusing Club's (http://www.stpancrascc.co.uk) trips up the tideway where you won't 'need' a VHF and you will be briefed properly and have an enjoyable trip.

 

To include Brentford-Teddington-Brenford in the ban is possibly a bridge too far at the moment in my opinion.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Leo No2

[Timleech]

Hire boats are not allowed on the Manchester Ship Canal, there are many more potential hazards on the Tideway than the MSC, where all traffic is closely regulated.

It would seem a bit harsh to ban all hire boats from the Brentford-Teddington link, though.

 

Tim

[WJM]

The irony is that the incident that supposedly prompted all this happened far upstream from the 'commercial cauldron'. Apart from the strong currents, it is really quiet around Hammersmith. That said, the hire boat that got into difficulties must have been steered by someone with a very poor knowledge of rivers and currents. They hit The Dove Pier. Yes, the current from the bridge heads straight for the pier but it is blindingly obvious to an alert steerer.

[NickF]

 

The age old question always arises; if I haven't got experience, how do I gain it. The best way I can think of is to join St Pancras Crusing Club's (http://www.stpancrascc.co.uk) trips up the tideway where you won't 'need' a VHF and you will be briefed properly and have an enjoyable trip.

 

 

 

Surely another answer to that is take someone with you that has experience.

[alan_fincher]

 

?

 

The same way as anyone else does it. One of the people on the boat has a VHF Certificate and a hand held VHF. Why would it be different for a hire boat?

 

It shouldn't be different, I agree,

 

However anecdotally, when the hire boats from the Lee Valley Cruisers (I think that's the correct name) were going out they were just "bunging them a radio", but there was often no licensed operator on board.

 

Initially I thought Black Prince had something about doing a quick course for those who wanted to do it, and I could never see how that covered the full requirement.

 

However I now see that their website says "with a VHF guide to help if required", which I don't think initially it did.

 

I don't have an objection to a hire boat being on the Tideway from Limehouse, if there is a properly certified VHF person on board, particularly if they are experienced in making the passage, (which of course none of us are, the first time we do it!......).

[RichardN]

I am hoping that the report is wrong and it is just a proposal, I think having a boat pinned is one of PLA's nightmares. It seems a bit of a strange knee jerk, the PLA put a buoy there (and then changed it) because several boats had had a close encounter with the boats at Dove Pier. Lets face it even the professionals get it wrong eg A City Cruiser has got pinned on Westminster Bridge and another had a bit of broken glass when Tower Bridge jumped into their way so why single out hire boats?

 

If hirers do what NickF did then they are probably better off then many other boats you see. Also don't forget that many hirers are better drivers then many boat owners. It is a fantastic cruise, use it but be sensible and responsible.

[alan_fincher]

Surely another answer to that is take someone with you that has experience.

 

I arranged to first make the passage on the boat of a forum member who did have experience. I had the VHF certificate, and acted as their radio operator. This greatly increased my confidence for then going out on my own boat, (though didn't prepare me for just how much more you pitch forward and aft in a 50 foot boat than in a 67 foot one!).

[NickF]

 

I arranged to first make the passage on the boat of a forum member who did have experience. I had the VHF certificate, and acted as their radio operator. This greatly increased my confidence for then going out on my own boat, (though didn't prepare me for just how much more you pitch forward and aft in a 50 foot boat than in a 67 foot one!).

That's interesting Alan, I did it on a 66ft boat and I did wonder whether it was riding the waves better than a shorter one would.

[b0atman]

So get a vhf radio licence but have no experience of boating in these conditions and everything is alright?

In my mind a mobile with list of contact numbers would be of the same use !

I remember going up the River to Norwich a number of years back and moving over for a sea going timber carrying boat and a Naval vessel.

Risk analysis how many canal boats have been in collisions in this stretch of the Thames

[alan_fincher]

In my mind a mobile with list of contact numbers would be of the same use !

 

When we have done it, we have picked up from VHF that....

 

1) A bridge arch has suddenly been unexpectedly closed.

and

2) That someone has thrown themselves from another bridge, and uis now probably still in the water.

 

If you only have a mobile phone, and list of contact numbers, how would you have learned of those particular hazards?

 

The VHF requirement is there for very good reasons - I'm only amazed it doesn't still apply to shorter narrow boats.

 

I have met people who have gone out of Limehouse on two boats below the length requirement, armed only with CB radios to stay in touch with each other. Highly irresponsible in my view, even if there is no legal requirement to do more.

Edited December 11, 2014 by alan_fincher

[Proper Job]

I did a tideway pilotage job for Nigel Carton in September. It was a private boat but the owners were aprehensive about going up through London wanted an experience person to go with them.

 

It was a cracking trip up the river and we all had a great time.

 

It did have it's moments though....

 

The first was as we left Limehouse and entered the river to find ourselves right in the middle of the Great River Race (http://www.greatriverrace.co.uk/) . 300+ rowing boats enroute for Richmond!

We spend the whole trip up being overtaken by rowing boats (yes they were going faster than us), dodging the associated safey boats, being sent through the wrong arches of the bridges etc and of course the usual commercial traffic

It did make for a very colourful spectical though.

 

The other one was when the PLA unexpectedly closed the river for safety reasons and told us to turn round and head back down stream (against the tide). I did have a little 'chat' with the PLA launches and London VTS. All was sorted in the end and we made it to Teddington safely.

 

The reason for the tale is that things can get unexpectedly very hectic on that bit of water. I just thought it was another day on the water. The boat owners were very please about employing my services as they said that they wouldn't have know what to do in most of the circumstances presented to us along the way.