Welding Equipment

[TheCrowsNest]

I want to buy some welding equipment for doing odd jobs on the boat (mainly fitting supports and brackets in the engine room) and for building a camper van in the new year. As I have no experience with welding, I want to purchase the kit sooner rather than later so I can learn.

 

I know there are various types of welding but I don't know which would be best for me to learn?

 

I have found a guy that is selling a MMA welder, helmet, rods, gloves, hammer etc for £400:

Is this a good price for this kit? He said he will give me a quick lesson in how to use it which is a great advantage.

 

 

Just wondering what your views and thoughts were on this? Many thanks for any info

[Paul C]

How are you going to power it - shoreline? If not, then I'd forget about welding on the boat, since its really tricky to run one from an inverter or generator; and the diesel powered welders (basically a matched diesel generator and welder) are very expensive and more for industrial/farm use etc.

 

If its for a camper and you have reliable mains supply, then MIG welding would be better than arc welding for body repairs. I'd recommend a Clarke 151TE but then that's only because I have one. Don't skimp on gas - the proper gas is expensive, not proper stuff contributes to poor welds which you really don't want to deal with if you're a beginner.

[W+T]

Hi mate, IMO that price is dam pricey, for a start the rods are around £15 a box of 5kg, gloves clamps about £20 and the helmet, a good auto can be got for around £50, all new prices, so that leaves the rig at £315, you can get one sof these new with warranty etc for less

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SIP-05246-Weldmate-P187-160-amp-Inverter-Welder-Gen-Safe-E78-/290984084466?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43c000c3f2

 

Just one to look at new, there are lots to look at.

 

I am guessing you will want single phase 13amp power, as anything much more than 160amp you will need more supply as in 16amp sockets etc.

 

!60amp will do for what you need and will weld 6mm plate for a good time, 120amp will do 6mm plate easy , but will depend on the duty cycle, which you mite not need so much, this means say a duty cycle of 20% at 150amps is 2 mins welding in the, then 10mins cooling time.

 

the one i linked to is ok i reckon, but one you talk about way to much to me.

 

wolly

Oh yes sorry, mig is the way to go for thin stuff below 3mm, arc will just blow through, i have a great 3in1 rig but a bit more expensive, i paid £600 for it but does mig,tig an arc and is a 180amp.

 

best rig i have ever had.

 

http://www.victortechnologies.com/Thermal%20Arc%203in1/Fabricator%20181i/images_clients/Fabricator%20181i%203in1%20Multi%20Proces%20Welding%20System%20Operating%20Manual%20(0-5151)_Apr2011.pdf

 

i used ti use pub gas co2 for years, not a problem with it, i built many an off road 4x4 including fitting axles and nothing fell off

[onionbargee]

that is a £ 350 Migatronic welder ( very good brand ) and a £150 / £200 helmet, so the price is a bit high, but it looks unused, but then you have no warrenty, which is worth having on an inverter. I would say get a R Tech or Thermal arc basic £200 inverter with 2 year warrenty.

 

Cheap Chinese helmets off Ebay you will find have a slower reaction time than a good branded one, a few more quid in exchange for the safety of your eyes ? sounds a good deal to me, Stevie Wonder was not a good welder.

 

You will need 16 amp supply or 6 kva plus AVR geny depending on how generator friendly the inverter is.

[TheCrowsNest]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies.

 

Do welders often break? Just wondering if warranty is a necessity or not.

 

I have a 16A shoreline connection so I would prefer to get one that would work off a standard 13A socket.

 

I'll take a look at the kit you all posted but what would you value the gear in the first post at?

 

Many many thanks again.

[onionbargee]

£200, if you take into account that the machine and helmet can't economically be repaired if they go tits up with no warrenty.

[Bee]

For odds and ends on the boat stick welding is fine, needs a bit more skill than mig. Mig is where a thin wire is fed from the welder through the `gun` along with a gas, CO2 mix usually to keep oxygen away from the weld. Stick or MMA needs cheaper gear but you can weld outside in a wind as the rods or sticks have a coating that burns off and prevents oxygen from getting at the weld. You need mig for car work, A cheap stick welder can be a good machine, a cheap mig can be a nightmare, beware of them, setting them up, balancing wire feed speed with `heat` etc. can be v. difficult., for what its worth my advice would be to get a cheap arc welder and a box of rods and practice a lot then rethink your needs in a few months, if you decide to sell the arc welder I`ll have it as my cheap clarkes welder is 30 yrs old and battered beyond belief!

[bizzard]

With stick welding striking an arc and keeping it going is usually the initial difficulty a beginner has. On striking up the arc they usually jerk nervously as soon as it touches and flashes and either break the arc or the rod sticks welding itself to the job causing a severe overload, a loud buzzing hum from the welder and probably blowing fuses. Clean striking up is an aquired knack which takes a time to master. you need to be bold and donk the electrode quite hard but steadily without jumping or jerking. Donking it firmly and holding steady without jerking the small arc gap between electrode tip and the job will happen automatically and you can continue the welding run. I suggest a beginner cuts a new electrode in half with pliers and perhaps bend it a little for comfort, this will keep it from waving about too much and will be steadier to manipulate. Some kind of a forearm rest is worth a beginner trying, even knock up a sort of artists Mahl stick forearm rest which you can manipulate with your other hand to keep your welding arm steady.

[ditchcrawler]

Do a course and learn how to weld first, then decide what jobs you intend to do and buy the gear to suit.

[Bee]

I did a course but really I think it would have been more use to have spent the time and money on equipment and practice, its the practice that you really need to become competent.

[bargemast]

"Practice makes perfect".

 

Peter.

[TheCrowsNest]

I did a course but really I think it would have been more use to have spent the time and money on equipment and practice, its the practice that you really need to become competent.

 

That was my take on it. I have looked for courses and the cost of the course would be the same, if not more expensive as buying the kit. I don't need a certificate, I just need to know the basics (book, youtube) and get practising.

[Timleech]

 

You will need 16 amp supply or 6 kva plus AVR geny depending on how generator friendly the inverter is.

 

You can do quite a lot from a standard 13A supply with a modern inverter set, just don't try to weld continuously all day from it.

 

 

Re the stick vs MIG thing, yes MIG is far better for thin material. The potential snag for a beginner is that it's quite possible to make a MIG weld which looks superficially OK but actually has little strength (adhesion weld), whereas with stick welding if it looks halfway decent it will be reasonably strong.

 

Tim

Edited October 12, 2013 by Timleech

[TheCrowsNest]

From reading your comments and some other websites I am starting to think that MIG would be the best way to start?

 

I just want to do little jobs like weld brackets to cabin / van walls and maybe weld some steel box sections together to build a bed frame for the van.

 

Would something like what M+T posted (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290984084466) be what I'd need? or perhaps something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121190880623 ?

[Biggles]

The most important thing to look for with any welding set is its duty cycle. Not so important for thin stuff like cars but on heavy stuff like boats.

 

People always look at the welding power which is important, but a 200amp welder with 20% duty cycle is just about useless if you have any quantity of welding to do.

 

It's the duty cycle that ramps up the price. The higher the duty cycle the more expensive the set will be no matter if its stick, MIG TIG etc.

[RLWP]

"Practice makes perfect".

 

Peter.

 

When welding, I would say preparation makes perfect - you only learn that after a lot of practice

 

Richard

[bargemast]

 

When welding, I would say preparation makes perfect - you only learn that after a lot of practice

 

Richard

 

As you say very rightly : "You only learn that after a lot of practice", I think that there was nothing wrong, and even more proof of "Practice makes perfect".

 

Peter.

[RLWP]

Oh yes - I wasn't disagreeing, more bringing in my hard earned experience

 

Richard

[bargemast]

Oh yes - I wasn't disagreeing, more bringing in my hard earned experience

 

Richard

 

I'm sure that you've got plenty of hard earned experience, if not, I don't think you would have started "Primrose Engineering" with which I wish you lots of success.

 

Peter.

[RLWP]

The biggest shock was going from gas welding to MIG. I'm still on that learning curve

 

Richard

[TheCrowsNest]

I found the one posted by M+T for £195 delivered: http://www.sipuk.co.uk/sip-05246-weldmate-p187-arc-inverter-welder.html

 

It has a duty cycle of 160 Amps @ 60%. Would this be good enough?

[bizzard]

The best way for a beginner to teach their self how to clean and prepare a job properly for electric welding is to start off welding in the nude, when you think you've prepared and cleaned it enough and you get severely burnt, peppered with white hot crackling crud flack all over you it means that you've not prepared and cleaned the job properly.

[Biggles]

I found the one posted by M+T for £195 delivered: http://www.sipuk.co.uk/sip-05246-weldmate-p187-arc-inverter-welder.html

 

It has a duty cycle of 160 Amps @ 60%. Would this be good enough?

I would think so. For a keen amateur with odd jobs but not to overplate a boat.

[bargemast]

The best way for a beginner to teach their self how to clean and prepare a job properly for electric welding is to start off welding in the nude, when you think you've prepared and cleaned it enough and you get severely burnt, peppered with white hot crackling crud flack all over you it means that you've not prepared and cleaned the job properly.

 

You would probably be a very good teacher, but you would risk getting arrested teaching beginners to weld the way you advise.

 

Peter.

[Biggles]

The best way for a beginner to teach their self how to clean and prepare a job properly for electric welding is to start off welding in the nude, when you think you've prepared and cleaned it enough and you get severely burnt, peppered with white hot crackling crud flack all over you it means that you've not prepared and cleaned the job properly.

And if you have, the UV exposure will dissolve your skin.