Eberspacher problems

[snigsnig]

Hi all

 

I've been having problems with my Eberspacher Hydronic 10. I've read some of the woes of previous posters, and have tried a few of the suggestions given, but the b*****d still isn't playing ball so thought I would post my exact problem in the hope that someone might be able to pinpoint what could be going on.

 

Firstly I have full battery power and plenty of fuel. The heater (which only has on/off switch, no timer or diagnostic unit sadly) starts up fine and runs for its 60 second preamble as described in the manual. At this point the glow pin is supposed to glow full whack and the fuel supply pump kick in and the whole thing speed up and start heating, but it doesn't, it just shuts down.

 

I've taken the fuel pump off and checked it works with another 12v supply, which it does. And I've primed it when I've put it back in to make sure there is fuel getting to the heater. I've had the glow pin out and checked, and that seems okay. Nothing seems blocked or coked up. And the water circulation pump looks brand new.

 

I know the previous owner had lots of problems, had it checked several times 'on the bench' and it was always fine, but as soon as back in the boat it would play up.

 

I'm aware that the Hyrdonic 10 is most likely too big for a narrowboat - even a 70 footer - but money restricts me from replacing it at the moment, but I would dearly like to get it working by the autumn when I am due to move on board.

 

Thanks for reading! If anyone can shed any light on this then I'll be your best friend forever!!

 

Neil

[ridders]

hi. i would suggest buying a timer so you can use the diagnostics, it sounds very much like the problem i had with mine which turned out to be the glowpin, but without the code you 'd be risking the price of a pin for nothing, the timer/thermostat i got was for an airtronic but still read the code ok

hope you get it sorted

paul

 

eta just read your post again, did you try your glowpin across the battery when you had it out?

Edited July 25, 2012 by ridders

[snigsnig]

Brilliant, thanks Paul. Can I quickly ask, is this the timer you bought? My link

 

Had the pin out and tested on the battery - it glowed pretty hot but only about a third of it got red hot.

 

Neil

Edited July 25, 2012 by snigsnig

[Bimbly1]

Brilliant, thanks Paul. Can I quickly ask, is this the timer you bought? My link

 

Neil

 

Sorry to read of your problem Neil. That's the timer I have on mine and the diagnostic link was well worth having, although I had to get someone from a boatyard out to interrogate it. After that, sorted....

[ridders]

don't think so, i think mine was the 801, my mini timer didn't have the diagnostics, i tyhink from memory it's the blue wire that carries the fault sequence

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EBERSPACHER-Controller-with-diagnostics-all-AIRTRONIC-/280840400592?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item4163646ed0

that's the one, it's not right as it incorporates a blower control, but it was the only one our local dealer had in the day i wanted one

eta, i think the glowpin is like a lightbulb, either working or not, mine had a bulge in the side and wouldn't work at all

 

one more quick one, if it worked on the bench but not in the boat it could be voltage drop, i would check the voltage while it's trying to fire just to see if there's a bad connection anywhere, also i think these can go to lockout, which need s to be reset, the local firm would have charged £30 each time for this, i thought it was cheaper to buy the timer so i could do it

Edited July 25, 2012 by ridders

[steelaway]

don't think so, i think mine was the 801, my mini timer didn't have the diagnostics, i tyhink from memory it's the blue wire that carries the fault sequence

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4163646ed0

that's the one, it's not right as it incorporates a blower control, but it was the only one our local dealer had in the day i wanted one

eta, i think the glowpin is like a lightbulb, either working or not, mine had a bulge in the side and wouldn't work at all

 

one more quick one, if it worked on the bench but not in the boat it could be voltage drop, i would check the voltage while it's trying to fire just to see if there's a bad connection anywhere, also i think these can go to lockout, which need s to be reset, the local firm would have charged £30 each time for this, i thought it was cheaper to buy the timer so i could do it

 

 

 

Hi

 

A couple of idea's.

Make sure the exhaust and inlet filter is clear- The combustion relies on lots of air in and out.

Try starting it with the engine running, there is a large load and volts drop at start up.

There is a very tiny filter in the fuel pump inlet, check its not blocked, there is also the metering jet after the pump that might have become blocked.

 

 

Alex

[nb Innisfree]

My guess is poor fuel quality. We had endless probs with our Eber, literally tried everything untill ULSD appeared at the pumps, since then it starts and runs perfectly in fact there seems to be nowhere near the amount of probs boaters used to experience. You could try running it on a gallon or so of low sulphur diesel and see if things improve

[granddad]

I bought some old red derv from st johns boatyard on the thames. I can't say for sure where it came from originally. It would explode in the compression ignition engine fine but it wouldn't burn when squirted at the glowpin. I got 20 litres of white ulsd in a can and cobbled up a feed. It took 10 tries to bleed it through to the webasto thermo 90 but it cured the problem.

ken

[Bobbybass]

Hi

 

There is a very tiny filter in the fuel pump inlet, check its not blocked, there is also the metering jet after the pump that might have become blocked.

 

 

Alex

What he said...

The tiny filter can be a real s*d as it can run OK..and then you put the pump back on and the fuel just won't flow fast enough.

Do you know where it is..?...as its difficult to spot...and is only 4mm in diameter...like a tiny thimble.

I have actually written 'it's in here' on my pump with a magic marker...as I can never spot which end of the pump its at.

It normally won't come out easily on mine..I have to carefully use a large woodscrew to grip it and remove it.Tricky..as its easy to damage.

 

Good luck !

[snigsnig]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

 

I've had the fuel filter out, and it was fine. The only thing I haven't really tried is testing for a voltage drop, although the preheat and glow pin seem to fire up as they should, its just the next sequence that it doesn't like. Checking voltages will be my next attempt. Everything else seems to be 'as it should be', which only makes it all the more annoying! Will try it with some better fuel too. The boat had sat unused for 6 months before I bought her, so the fuel could be the problem, though again it looks fine and the engine runs pretty smoothly. Will try and get hold of some ultra low stuff.

 

Neil

Edited July 26, 2012 by snigsnig

[Pretty Funked Up]

You've pretty much ruled everything out other than the fact its coked up inside.

Give the fuel ago but I think you need to start mentally preparing to decoke it.

Its a skill you need if youre to rely on it (not seen low sulphur at any local pumps yet to try it but mine takes from the engine tank anyway so probably work out too pricey).

Not got your model I'm afraid, I have the 5 but its not too difficult on that one, I got the whole process down to under an hour with ease.

[snigsnig]

Tried a few more things today and... I WANT TO THROW IT IN THE CANAL! I can now rule out voltage drop and air supply, which leaves me with.... nothing! Apart from what PFU says which is giving it a decoke.

 

Seriously, why are these bloody things so temperamental... waiting for a diagnostic timer to arrive before I do anything else, otherwise I fear I will be bald by August. Grrrrr....

 

N

[nb Innisfree]

Tried a few more things today and... I WANT TO THROW IT IN THE CANAL! I can now rule out voltage drop and air supply, which leaves me with.... nothing! Apart from what PFU says which is giving it a decoke.

 

Seriously, why are these bloody things so temperamental... waiting for a diagnostic timer to arrive before I do anything else, otherwise I fear I will be bald by August. Grrrrr....

 

NC

 

Been there done it and know the frustration, have you tried low sulphur fuel yet? The old high sulphur red stuff has been phased out so all red is now ULSD.

 

They are temperamental because they don't like high sulphur diesel, they are very reluctant to ignite it, sometimes higher voltage will make glow plug get a bit hotter and might just ignite it or equally it might not but will smoke anyway. ULSD will ignite on lower voltage and run clean after initial few seconds of smoke.

[Roger Gunkel]

They are temperamental because they have only ever run properly on low sulphur diesel, it's just that the manufacturers and builders didn't bother to to tell boat users. It does say it in the small print somewhere in the technical spec under the fuel specificatipn EN590 or current equivalent.

 

Roger

[smileypete]

Tried a few more things today and... I WANT TO THROW IT IN THE CANAL! I can now rule out voltage drop and air supply, which leaves me with.... nothing! Apart from what PFU says which is giving it a decoke.

 

Seriously, why are these bloody things so temperamental... waiting for a diagnostic timer to arrive before I do anything else, otherwise I fear I will be bald by August. Grrrrr....

If all else fails I'd take it out completely and do my own 'bench test', check the usual stuff, fresh can of diesel from the garage, fully charged 12V batt.

 

In the past people have mentioned the fuse connection looking OK but not making a good connection. Also worth checking the current thru the glo pin is OK, if there's a partial short it might draw too much current and cause a shutdown.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited July 27, 2012 by smileypete

[snigsnig]

Cheers guys - all suggestions much appreciated!

 

N

[Pretty Funked Up]

How much smoke do you get?

 

When its coked up the fuel seeps in too slowly down the side and doesnt mix with the air properly and doesnt catch enough to pass the flame sensor. It does sound like thats exactly whats happening to me and pretty much spot on the time too, 60secs. You get shed loads of thick thick smoke. Unburn fuel ends up in the exhaust too so even after you fix it, it smokes like a b..........

 

Its a simple continuity test on the glow pin.

The sensors are a resistence test.

(you can get the values for the sensors easily off the webite)

Edited July 27, 2012 by Pretty Funked Up

[Chubby Chaser]

I got rid of mine after repeated failures that cost over £500 a time to put right.

[Gibbo]

Flame sensor covered in soot. When it tries to fire up it expects to see light inside, if it doesn't, it shuts down.

[johnthebridge]

When I had my barge in England, the Eberspacher in her drove me insane. So much so it was replaced in entirety twice by the Eber engineer. By the time the third one had been installed I had decided to take the boat to Ireland, and told the engineer I was doing so. His words were to the effect that if I drained the tank of red diesel and re-filled it with the green available in that country, I would have no more trouble. Six years later, still in Ireland, and the Eber has never given another moment's trouble, even firing up straightaway three weeks ago after being unused for nearly a year. In passing, the engineer also told me at that time that if I had fitted a seperate tank and run it on paraffin, it would also be trouble free. In the absence of green diesel you might care to consider this?

[Pretty Funked Up]

Flame sensor covered in soot. When it tries to fire up it expects to see light inside, if it doesn't, it shuts down.

 

I thought they worked on heat When mine played up i checked mine it was as it should be so I moved on to dismantling further for the the decoke.

Mine played up 5 times in 3yrs, once the glowpin had gone but every other time it was coked up conbustion chamber, well mainly just where the fuel enters into the combustion chamber really, thats where the achillies heel is for them when using low grade fuel.

[nb Innisfree]

In my experience flame sensor tended to get sooty on high sulphur fuel - not always mind - but is ok on ULSD.

[Bobbybass]

I think..it has all been said....

I will add..my experiences....with my D5W (I know its not the same)

We use ours every day even in summer...as we like a nice hot shower in the morning without starting the engine.

It fires up fine....runs on whatever red style diesel I am currently using...even though it regularly goes into the 'shut down' mode due to overheating in summer.

I have to 'look at it' about once every 18 months- 2 years...

Over the time it has:

Glow plug has 'appeared' OK..but has a small break so its intermittent.

I decoked it once.....

The little filter has blocked a couple of times...

I have wired it directly to batteries, (not through master switch) using huge cable...and a big fuse that I remove when I leave the boat.

I 'discovered'..that the holder for the main fuse in the control unit..gets troublesome.

This fuse (is it 15 amps ??) gets hot..and the holder loses its spring. This makes it succeptible to vibration. I did used to bend them back again..but they lose spring. I ran two large cables outside the control unit and put an in-line fuse..this was very useful....and stopped a lot of problems...as well as the fact that it is a sod to get to the fuses with all the wires inside it.

The flame sensor on mine is photo ..it 'sees' a flame through the end of the unit...so I had to wipe it off once.

Oh..and I replaced the fan motor once....there's a guy on Ebay ( 4x4Andy..?...or something like)..supplies parts. It was about £30.

 

Thats all I can think of really...?

Edited July 30, 2012 by Bobbybass

[matty40s]

er, I will add my experience too, having been on board for over 4 years.

I have an eberspacher for hot water (and central heating, however, have only used this sparingly for 3 years) which is run daily for 30 minutes unless cruising.

I have never touched it.

It is wired directly from the batteries.

It still works daily.

[snigsnig]

Still no luck with this. Took the whole thing apart and gave it a ruddy good clean, decoked, checked flame sensor and glow pin etc etc. Was like a new unit when I put it in. Fired up - whoop! - did its cycle, and then kaput. And hasn't even tried to start again since. Arrrgh!!

 

One question, if anyone knows the answer please, when refitting a diesel heater, what is the easiest way to bleed the water back through the inlet and outlet on the water pump on the unit? I can't seem to get water back into the heater, have refilled and bled what I thought were the connected pipes but it still feels empty. Cheers.

 

Neil