Hearth fitting question

[deletedaccount]

Sorry about this, but I've got a couple of questions that I can't quite find the answer to.

 

I'm building a hearth and from reading I know I should go airgap -> fireproof board -> tiles.

 

The problem is I've not been able to source any sort of fireproof board here in bath. I've even been as far as trowbridge B&Q and they've not got any either. I've been asking for 'cement board' and when given a blank face back described what I want, used the expression 'fake asbestos' and still been met with blank expressions.

 

So I'm wondering if I can get away with airgap-> big thick slate floor tiles instead. I've seen plenty of boats with them glues directly to the wall and I really don't want to do that.

 

Question 2 would be "what do I stick em to the wall with? Is it that heat resistant silicone sealant type stuff?

[churchward]

Sorry about this, but I've got a couple of questions that I can't quite find the answer to.

 

I'm building a hearth and from reading I know I should go airgap -> fireproof board -> tiles.

 

The problem is I've not been able to source any sort of fireproof board here in bath. I've even been as far as trowbridge B&Q and they've not got any either. I've been asking for 'cement board' and when given a blank face back described what I want, used the expression 'fake asbestos' and still been met with blank expressions.

 

So I'm wondering if I can get away with airgap-> big thick slate floor tiles instead. I've seen plenty of boats with them glues directly to the wall and I really don't want to do that.

 

Question 2 would be "what do I stick em to the wall with? Is it that heat resistant silicone sealant type stuff?

Tiles of course won't catch fire themselves but if your stove is close enough to them they will get VERY hot and enough to char or even ignite wood or other materials behind them. Often people find that when they take off old tiles that have been cemented or stuck to a wooden backing the wood has been burnt by the heat of the tiles.

 

The air gap will need to be large to make sure tiles don't get too hot. I would say at least 5-6 inches minimum and even then I would prefer a heat resistant backing to the tiles.

 

Some folk have had success with using a heat baffle between the fire and the wall. Something like a solid metal fire guard if you will but behind the fire instead of in front of it.

[alan_fincher]

If by "hearth" you mean around the sides, (i.e. walls), I personally would not be happy to base on anything that didn't include the insulating layer.

 

(What I tend to call "hearth" is the base underneath, where I'd not bother, because id doesn't get hot in our set-up).

 

What you need to ask for is often branded "Masterboard or "Superlux" - I'm unclear if each has a near identical spec or not, but both are undoubtedly fit for purpose.

 

Some have also mentioned "AquaPanel" in past postings, although there was some doubt about whether it is as good, as I think it's actually intended to go behind shower tiles, mainly ?

 

My understanding is that few "standard" B&Q and Wickes type stores stock the proper board, but if you go to one of their big "depot" type stores you can often then get it. Some chandleries, such as Whilton, (IIRC), will sell it by the square foot, too.

 

My local DIY shop does, but that will not really help you, I'm afraid!

[deletedaccount]

Hmmm. It's really annoying that I can't get it. Well that's not entirely true, I can get an enormous sheet from the local builders merchant. And I mean enormous.

 

I meant the sides, not the bottom btw.

[alan_fincher]

And I mean enormous.

That will be an 8' x 4'.

 

A forum member flogged me a half sheet that he didn't need, so I had a 4'x 4'.

 

In practice when I redid our stove, it was obvious that nothing likeenough had previously been covered and tiled, and I ended up using virtually all of that 4' x 4', aprat from a few very small offcuts, (I insulated the sides of the cabin steps too, as they were getting too hot, in my view).

 

Perhaps you will be lucky,and someone in your area will spot this, and offer to split a sheet with you ?

[nb Innisfree]

Hmmm. It's really annoying that I can't get it. Well that's not entirely true, I can get an enormous sheet from the local builders merchant. And I mean enormous.

 

I meant the sides, not the bottom btw.

 

We got ours from Wickes 5 years ago but I have seen it fairly recently, it's a sort of cement and fibreboard, ideal and it is (was?) about 30"x 36" or thereabouts. We used it behind the gas cooker as well.

 

We couldn't find it anywhere else

Edited December 7, 2009 by nb Innisfree

[barge sara]

Hmmm. It's really annoying that I can't get it. Well that's not entirely true, I can get an enormous sheet from the local builders merchant. And I mean enormous.

 

Some builders merchants will cut and sell a part sheet, mine did,but that's in Goole so not much use to you!

Might be worth sitting down with yellow pages and having a ring around.

Small local merchants seem more likely to stock it than the likes of B&Q.

Two more trade names to try are Versafire and Pyrok. There's a useful product guide here: Euroform

 

Another handy hint is to use strips of the board behind the main board to create an airspace to help cooling.

[deletedaccount]

I've thought of another idea.

 

I've found some one inch thick limestone paving slabs. How about I stick those on the wall? Thick enough?

[andywatson]

I've thought of another idea.

 

I've found some one inch thick limestone paving slabs. How about I stick those on the wall? Thick enough?

 

I think that they would work very well.

If I'm not mistaken, the upcoming new fire regs specify calcium carbonate (effectively limestone) in this very application.

 

 

As an aside on the same subject, one of the reasons that the UK's coal mines are (were) relatively hot is the insulating affect of the carbonifeous strata.

[Tony Brooks]

Although I got a small sheet of Masterboard lookalike form B&Q a while ago they seem to have stopped stocking it, but today I did see sheets of material in the tiles section that said it was for insulating underfloor heating. I took little notice of it, but it LOOKED like about 8mm of some solid "plaster like" material between two sheets of some kind of reinforced membrane.

[wrigglefingers]

Although I got a small sheet of Masterboard lookalike form B&Q a while ago they seem to have stopped stocking it, but today I did see sheets of material in the tiles section that said it was for insulating underfloor heating. I took little notice of it, but it LOOKED like about 8mm of some solid "plaster like" material between two sheets of some kind of reinforced membrane.

 

The board Paul Smith recommended for Cobbett is called Super Isol. Tile backing sheets or cement board is not recommended ie won't' pass for CE marking on new builds.

[casper ghost]

I saw a backcabin which had a 2 inch paving clab around the sides of the stove. It had no air gap behind it, just stuck, somehow, to the steel cabin side. Does anyone know if this would be ok?

[Canal Shop Man]

We sell insulation board (Glasroc - 6mm thick) cut to size for £2.20 per square foot plus p & p

 

Just give me a call on 01327 844442 and I'll send it to you

[deletedaccount]

We sell insulation board (Glasroc - 6mm thick) cut to size for £2.20 per square foot plus p & p

 

Just give me a call on 01327 844442 and I'll send it to you

 

Brilliant. I've been searching the net for an hour now. I'll double check the measurements and give you a ring.

Edited December 8, 2009 by deletedaccount

[rjasmith]

The board Paul Smith recommended for Cobbett is called Super Isol. Tile backing sheets or cement board is not recommended ie won't' pass for CE marking on new builds.

 

That's an interesting one! I'm pretty sure the RCD (CE marking) standards are silent on the subject of solid fuel stoves on boats currently - and will remain so even after the new BS 8511 comes out in a few weeks (supposed to be Dec 20).

 

If the new BS CoP was to be adopted under the RCD it would have to be rewritten as an ISO standard and "harmonised" to the RCD as I understand it. This would undoubtedly take some time!!

 

I'd be very interested to know how Paul Smith comes to this opinion about the Super Isol board. (He's bound to be right - these Smiths are usually a canny lot)

 

(Good to meet you and Ellen at the Oxford banter BTW!)

 

For all other folks wondering about hearths, materials and safe distances etc - why not wait until the new CoP comes out - not long to go now and it should be possible to read a copy in your local library (possibly online at home if they allow it like ours).

 

Richard

[deletedaccount]

For all other folks wondering about hearths, materials and safe distances etc - why not wait until the new CoP comes out - not long to go now and it should be possible to read a copy in your local library (possibly online at home if they allow it like ours).

 

What is the impact to me if I get it wrong?

[rjasmith]

What is the impact to me if I get it wrong?

 

I just don't know as I'm waiting to have a read of it too!! It should be a bit different to the first draft that came out last Spring - hopefully!

 

I don't believe it affects the RCD (yet) but we also don't know what the BSS will say about it. (I will probably ask them in due course). As it's just a British standards code of practice I suppose it isn't mandatory but in the event of an insurance claim involving a boat stove that was installed without taking it into account, the ins co could possibly get a bit twitchy about paying up.

 

BS 8511 is being produced as a result of the MAIB report into the Lindy Lou fire concluding that no guidance for boat stove installations existed.

 

Richard

[deletedaccount]

That's a bit much tbh mack,

 

I'm not planning on tiling directly onto the wall, nor am I planning on mounting a plastic speaker next to the flue or having the stove too close to the wall.

[Tim Doran]

Hi

 

When I did my fire, I used shower panel from Travis Perkins in Bath. I think that it comes only in half boards so 2x4. I cant remember the price but £13/15 sounds about right.

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

There must be hundreds, if not a few thousand, boats out there with similar stove installations. The actions of Lindy Lou's occupants on the day in question were something any of us could have done.

No doubt I shall get assassinated for this comment, but I'm thick skinned.

 

There seems little doubt that Lindy Lou's stove installation was not the best possible, but I suspect it was probably not a great deal worse than a great many out there, and boats do not get burned out in this way on a very regular basis.

 

I know it is generally frowned upon to say such things when someone has died, but when I have re-read the Lindy Lou report a couple of times previously, I have always felt that alcohol probably played as much of a part in that tragedy, as the actual installation of the stove.

 

That doesn't mean I feel the dangers should be underplayed - indeed I have just gone to considerable effort to completely refit ours, because although proper heat proof board was used, in my view that and the covering tiling did not protect a big enough area of the boat lining.

 

Whilst many of us enjoy a drink, either before returning to our boats, or after we have, the report certainly gives the impression of a fairly heavy drinking spree, that may well have resulted in the stove not being properly managed, or the occupants of the boat being able to react clearly when the tragedy was unfolding.

 

You could take it as a warning as much about excessive drinking, as about how your stove is installed. Even a well installed one, if over-fired and left unattended with too much draft, could possibly still run away enough to cause an accident - I think it's never going to be possible to guarantee that any solid fuel stove amongst combustible materials can never be a problem, irrespective of how it is used.

 

Incoming !

[deletedaccount]

Hi

 

When I did my fire, I used shower panel from Travis Perkins in Bath. I think that it comes only in half boards so 2x4. I cant remember the price but £13/15 sounds about right.

 

Tim

 

I'm not sure what you mean by shower panel. The one's I've looked at are plastic or laminated.

[Tim Doran]

I'm not sure what you mean by shower panel. The one's I've looked at are plastic or laminated.

 

It is cement board stuff similar to what another member has mentioned. I think that it was call AqualFlex.

 

Please dont use plastic )

 

Tim

[deletedaccount]

It is cement board stuff similar to what another member has mentioned. I think that it was call AqualFlex.

 

Please dont use plastic )

 

Tim

 

Cool. A half panel of that will do me nicely! (1200X900)

[deletedaccount]

What's the best stuff to use to stick the tiles to the board? I know it's supposed to be flexible, but homebase doesn't seem to stock anything useful in that regard. Silicone somethingorother? What about grout? I've not seen anything that fits the bill either.

[sueb]

What's the best stuff to use to stick the tiles to the board? I know it's supposed to be flexible, but homebase doesn't seem to stock anything useful in that regard. Silicone somethingorother? What about grout? I've not seen anything that fits the bill either.

I have some 'Bal' stuff it is flexible. At the moment it is at Reading. I bought it from a tile shop. Depends on the size you want to tile whether I have enough but I have finished with it. It is grey if that causes problems.

Sue