Household gas cookers on boats?

[Glennbrown]

Just spoke to the technical dept at Baumatic re FFD's who thereafter refused to help me when told being installed in a barge!!! .Manufacturers seem frightened

to death of taking responsibility for anything different than the norm!!!.

 

Having said that I own/operate a light aircraft fully permitted by the CAA the engine is marked all over it that it is not for aircraft use!!!

 

Glenn

[bottle]

Hi

 

I have contacted Bosch/Siemens. Neff and Baumatic, they all backed away as soon as a canalboat was mentioned.

 

A quote from Neff:

 

"We must also point out that our engineers are unable to attend to breakdowns on any form of waterborne craft so it would be necessary to remove any equipment to dry land before any repairs could be effected."

 

: Unquote.

 

My boat is to be all electric.

[Gary Peacock]

Just fitting Baumatic oven & hob at the moment all there products come with the LPG conversion kit, they don't like doing warranty work on boats at head office level. However their warranty work is contracted out and the chap we deal with doesn't have a problem with boats.

[ChrisPy]

I only need a two-burner hob and grill. I found a huge selection of cookers of various types on the Calor Gas website, at prices varying from £100 for a two-burner hob to more than £600 for a top of the range cooker. OK, more pricey than Comet, but not extortionate, and no hassle with compliance.

 

Does anyone have experience of Leisure Products? I am considering the Tasman 2000 for £200.

[matt]

I use a Stoves gas cooker, not got the model number to hand.

 

It's made for a caravan, it's a couple of inches smaller W/D/H than a normal domestic cooker - but it's perfect. The grill is pants, but the hobs and oven work well - every little helps on space ...

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Just spoke to the technical dept at Baumatic re FFD's Glenn

25658[/snapback]

 

Hope this helps, for the record:

BSS general requirement 27

a) LPG and liquid fuel burning appliances installed from 3 January 2000.

All burners and pilot lights shall be fitted with a device that automatically shuts off the fuel supply if the burner flame fails.

 

LPG and liquid fuel burning appliances installed before 3 January 2000

Burners on catalytic appliances, appliances with continuously-burning flames and pilot light burners shall be fitted with a device that automatically shuts off the fuel supply if the burner flame fails.

 

Rob @ BBS Office

Go boating - Stay safe

Edited July 20, 2005 by Rob@BSSOffice

[Richard Bustens]

Rob .

I'm not sure i understand that, i think it says that all equipment pre 2000 must be fitted with flame fail, where as i thought that any equipment pre 2000 was exempt?

[dor]

I think the point is Richard, that cooker hobs & grills are not considered to be "appliances with continuously-burning flames", but ovens are. It is the unattended, non-visible nature of the flame that matters. Hence an oven should have a FFD, but a burner doesn't. Thus a pre-2000 cooker installation can have a non-FFD hob.

 

I know that when you put the kettle on, hte flame is burning continuously until you turn it off, but lets not get caught up in semantics again!

[John Orentas]

The Red Book says that appliances installed before Jan 2000 are exempt. The section (8.5) is a bit contradictory but it excludes from the exemption catalytic heaters, those with a pilot light and fridges with a continuous flame.

 

When replying to this topic and one or two previous ones, I am surprised that Rob, presumably a BSS employee does not refer to the book specifically produced by his own organisation for boat regulation.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

The Red Book says that appliances installed before Jan 2000 are exempt.  The section (8.5) is a bit contradictory but it excludes from the exemption catalytic heaters, those with a pilot light and fridges with a continuous flame.

 

When replying to this topic and one or two previous ones, I am surprised that Rob, presumably a BSS employee does not refer to the book specifically produced by his own organisation for boat regulation.

25805[/snapback]

 

No need to presume, I reconfirm I am an employee of the Scheme.

 

The quote is taken from the latest information, as published last January, which sets out the requirement of the navigation authorities. It is in the Summary of Key Changes distributed by BW, EA the BA and posted on our website in the downloads section.

 

As DOR has correctly pointed out, it the attended/unattended nature of the appliance that makes the difference.

 

NB The 'kettle' effect has been recorded once or twice as a cause of problems, vigilance has to be the watchword particulary if you have an older cooker without FFD/FSDs fitted.

 

Cheers

Rob@BSS Office

Go boating -Stay safe

[Bones]

Has anyone found a solid cooker for their boat with FFD on the hob. I have looked in the chandlery but the vanette seems a bit flimsy to me. I love the Baumatics but it seems they don't have FFD on the hob.

 

Nothing wrong with flimsy, but something I love about cooking is a good solid door. Cast Iron hob bits is even better - but that might be asking too much!

 

Tom and Sophie - what did you end up getting?

[Gary Peacock]

Has anyone found a solid cooker for their boat with FFD on the hob. I have looked in the chandlery but the vanette seems a bit flimsy to me. I love the Baumatics but it seems they don't have FFD on the hob.

 

Nothing wrong with flimsy, but something I love about cooking is a good solid door. Cast Iron hob bits is even better - but that might be asking too much!

 

Tom and Sophie - what did you end up getting?

 

If you get a Baumatic catalogue it tells you which ones feature FFD.

They use the term Gas safety the ones we offer are models-

 

Hobs

B60-TC

BT63

BT66

BT64

BT88

BT18.5

P62

P68

P75

 

Ovens

B602

B604

B609

B725

[elessina]

Has anyone found a solid cooker for their boat with FFD on the hob.

 

We have, and can recommend the Baumatic oven (with FFD) and Hotpoint Hob (with FFD). The oven can be purchased from screwfix, but we bought ours cheaper from Sainsbury's direct (on line order). The hob can be purchased from B&Q, but cheaper to buy on line (Google search). Both have 230v ignition, but can be lit with match / lighter.

 

We found very few house type gas ovens with FFD, but lots of hobs. B&Q and Ikea have a good selection of hobs with FFD. Most come with a replacement set of LPG jets. Changing over the hob jets are very easy, but the oven required disassembly of some internal components, so not so easy. We installed the hob and oven and ran the pipework etc. then got a marine Corgi installer to make the connections, change the jets and test it.

 

We also installed a Pilot alarm system (with electronic solonid valve in the gas locker). A bit expensive (nearly £200) but we think well worth it, as it enables us to isolate the gas supply (at the gas locker) from inside the boat at the push of a button. So when we want to use the oven or hob we push a button to open the solonoid valve, then light the appliance. When we have finished using the oven / hob we push the button to close the valve (we have no other gas appliances). There is an LED light to indicate whether the valve is open or closed. The alarm comes with two gas sensors (we installed one on the floor under the oven, the other in the bilges under the oven), if either sensor detects gas it automatically closes the solonoid valve. So far, after 6 months use we have not had any false alarms. The valve also automatically closes when there is no power to the solenoid. The valve we have can be opened and closed manually, so if we have no power or the batteries are low we can still use the oven / hob. I believe this kind of system is mandatory on boats in the USA.

 

Ian

Elessina

[Canal Shop Man]

Yes it is often cheaper to get a domestic cooker as long as it is set up for LPG and has FSD's on ALL burners, not just oven and grill as mentioned above.

 

Problems arise however if you get a fault with the cooker. If this should happen, the only way to get service from the manufacturers is to take the cooker onto land and set it up there, as otherwise they will not touch it. The other problem is that you have to fit it yourself as most CORGI fitters won't touch them for this reason.

 

We have cookers from Stoves, Smev and Spinflo available at our shop, though they are quite expensive. A cheaper one if you can manage with a small oven/grill and only two rings is the Parker cooker. We sell this for £319.99 inc VAT. About the only other cookers suitable for marine use are designed for use on yachts with gimbals and whatnot. They are generally tiny and extortionate prices. Otherwise you can always use a diesel cooker or electric, both of which cost an arm and a leg . . .

[steve]

If fitting a built in oven like the B602 and it having a cooling fan would this just work of an inverter, iI ask as i am thinkin of getting one and what size inverter would i need.

[DHutch]

From the Baumatic website:

- Max Rating: 0.05 kW

- Fuse Rating: 3 Amps

 

In otherwords, little. HOwever, how fussy it is about the supply being clean is another thing, But a small sinewave inverter should be that much...

 

 

http://www.baumatic.co.uk/products/built_i..._view.php?id=23

 

 

 

Daniel

[bottle]

post superceded by Daniel

Edited May 23, 2006 by bottle

[ayeaye]

From the Baumatic website:

- Max Rating: 0.05 kW

- Fuse Rating: 3 Amps

 

In otherwords, little. HOwever, how fussy it is about the supply being clean is another thing, But a small sinewave inverter should be that much...

http://www.baumatic.co.uk/products/built_i..._view.php?id=23

Daniel

Have Dit 500 very happy with it purchased from "Puffer Parts" reasonable prices they have a web site

Bren

[Breals]

I have been looking at a cooker from Curry's to replace my old one. The Cannon Lichfield cooker, £270, supplied ready for LPG. My BSS examiner tells me it will have FSD's as standard as all cookers should, so it will be suitable.

[Canal Shop Man]

I have been looking at a cooker from Curry's to replace my old one. The Cannon Lichfield cooker, £270, supplied ready for LPG. My BSS examiner tells me it will have FSD's as standard as all cookers should, so it will be suitable.

Just remember that if it goes wrong under warranty, they won't come on board to fix it. If you don't mind taking it to a domestic location with an LPG supply, they will fix it . . . (of course, it SHOULDN'T go wrong . . .)

[Bones]

I have been looking at a cooker from Curry's to replace my old one. The Cannon Lichfield cooker, £270, supplied ready for LPG. My BSS examiner tells me it will have FSD's as standard as all cookers should, so it will be suitable.

 

 

check it does on the hob. I had this problem too - they say its standard, but it is on the oven, but not necessarily on the hob. Check it.

[elessina]

I have been looking at a cooker from Curry's to replace my old one. The Cannon Lichfield cooker, £270, supplied ready for LPG. My BSS examiner tells me it will have FSD's as standard as all cookers should, so it will be suitable.

Double.... Treble check it has FSD's (or FFD). When we looked around and checked the specs, I found less than half had FSD's.... Your BSS examiner is right, all new cookers *should* have FSD's...... but many do not and if you buy one that hasn't it will fail the BSS and you will have to buy another!!!.

Most new LPG cookers are built for caravans and village (farm) houses, many do not have to have FSD's.

 

I have googled the Cannon Litchfield, there seems to be a few models, but nowhere in the spec could I find FSD or FFD..... which likely concludes it has not got it.

 

Also some hobs cut off the gas supply when their lid is closed, but this does not necessarily mean it has a flame failure device.

 

Ian

Elessina

[Breals]

Thanks! Should the cooker go wrong, I accept I would probably have to take it on the chin - sod's law dictates it wod go wrong out of warranty anyway!

 

I will make it clear to Currys that the cooker I am purchasing has to have FSD and if I need to get another model I will do - it will be inspected by the BSS examiner shortly after installation anyway so if he condemns it I will be able to return it. Hopefully the fact that FSD are not mentioned on the specs does not mean they are not fitted. I don't think they are among the average consumers priorities.

 

I have looked at the specialist cookers for boats - they are either built in, which would be too much hassle, or too small and expensive for my needs. What sort of cookers have other people got, I wonder? Most boats seem to have domestic type cookers.

Edited July 12, 2006 by Breals

[bottle]

will make it clear to Currys that the cooker I am purchasing has to have FSD

 

Hi Breals

 

Not trying to teach you to suck eggs but make sure they know you require FSD on all burners, as has been said some cookers only have it on the oven burner.

 

They could truthfully say that the cooker has FSD but probably fail to mention it's not on all burners.

 

Try to go in the week as the part-time worker is less likely to be there and get proof in writing that the cooker is as you require it.

 

I am not trying to preach or insult your intelligence but if the cooker is not correct, not only will they try to renege on the deal it will cause a lot of hassle for yourself.

 

Good luck.

[Breals]

Bloody hell. Finding a cooker is harder than I thought. Currys and Comet are useless - neither offered to phone the manufacturer to confirm whether the cookers I am looking at have FFD. Then again the only time I can get up to see them is after work when the manufacturer's offices are closed. I phoned Belling the other day and they gave me the name of two Stoves New World models, neither of which Currys or Comet stock

 

Chandlery World do a Stoves New World LPG cooker which looks ok. Bit pricey but not too bad. No mention of FFD although it is a chandlery site so I hope it will be ok. (I'll be calling tomorrow to check).

 

Edited August 8, 2006 by Breals