Robbo Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Posting just because... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Can you get the hydrogen bottle refills from anywhere selling Calor? Or anywhere at all, even? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted December 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Can you get the hydrogen bottle refills from anywhere selling Calor? Or anywhere at all, even? That was my thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 And if you order one, it will take them 4 months to make it for you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system 4-50 Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 24 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Can you get the hydrogen bottle refills from anywhere selling Calor? Or anywhere at all, even? BOC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 A few years ago an entrepreneur built a hydrogen fuelled ferry boat (Hydrogenesis) for Bristol Harbour, subsidised by a grant from the mayor (Mr Red Trousers Ferguson). Apparently he had to get BOC to sell him some cylinders of hydrogen to prove it works. AFAIK it has been moored up near the SS Great Britain ever since it was initially tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 On 03/12/2017 at 15:09, system 4-50 said: BOC? Ah yes now I come to think about it, there is a large BOC branch at about every forth lock all the way down the southern Oxford. It's probably the same everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system 4-50 Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Ah yes now I come to think about it, there is a large BOC branch at about every forth lock all the way down the southern Oxford. It's probably the same everywhere. "... Gas delivered next working day BOC use our own vehicle fleet to deliver your gas cylinders. Delivery charges will apply which cover both delivery and collection of empties. Please note, in some locations BOC offers fixed delivery schedules, therefore, for a limited number of customers, next day delivery might not be available. Please check expected delivery date in your Order Summary. ... I understand they do not supply to balloons that are in flight but can manage surface areas with some road access. For MTB I'm sure they would be happy to supply TWO bottles in case he has difficulty with just one. Edited December 3, 2017 by system 4-50 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Ah yes now I come to think about it, there is a large BOC branch at about every forth lock all the way down the southern Oxford. It's probably the same everywhere. There's a huge BOC right next to the canal at Wolverhampton. Maybe Wolves has a cunning plan to become the boating centre of the Universe, a bit like Braunston is now. Its dodgy stuff hydrogen, the molecules are so small that they can escape right through the steel of the cylinder containing them. They would then react with the Oxygen in the air, using it all up, possibly suffocating anybody in the boat, and the resulting huge amount of water would cause the boat to sink. .............Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 A quick browse through the BOC price list probably shows they do not sell re-filled Ropeye hydrogen bottles on an exchange basis. Which means buying a BOC hydrogen cylinder and using it to DIY refill your own Ropeye hydrogen bottle on the boat. Somehow this strikes me as fraught with safety issues so I think I'll stick with my Whispergen running from diesel that I really CAN buy easily on the cut On 03/12/2017 at 15:26, dmr said: Its dodgy stuff hydrogen, the molecules are so small that they can escape right through the steel of the cylinder containing them. They would then react with the Oxygen in the air, using it all up, possibly suffocating anybody in the boat, and the resulting huge amount of water would cause the boat to sink. In which case the boater could employ that desperate man with a bucket, recently discussed in another thread. Another fuel cell problem solved. Are we taking this fuel cell suitably seriously, does anyone think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: A quick browse through the BOC price list probably shows they do not sell re-filled Ropeye hydrogen bottles on an exchange basis. Which means buying a BOC hydrogen cylinder and using it to DIY refill your own Ropeye hydrogen bottle on the boat. Somehow this strikes me as fraught with safety issues so I think I'll stick with my Whispergen running from diesel that I really CAN buy easily on the cut In which case the boater could employ that desperate man with a bucket, recently discussed in another thread. Another fuel cell problem solved. Are we taking this fuel cell suitably seriously, does anyone think? Man would of course have to hold bucket upside down. Never any mention of a diesel fuel cell so I assume it has too many problems. Would be great if it could be done. Diesel is a safe high energy fuel, we could convert it to electricity with a high efficiency and use that to drive a vintage electric motor in engine room. ..............Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Or even better, use it to spin up a dead vintage diesel like my Gleniffer or the Skandia to make it look like its running! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, dmr said: Man would of course have to hold bucket upside down. Never any mention of a diesel fuel cell so I assume it has too many problems. Would be great if it could be done. Diesel is a safe high energy fuel, we could convert it to electricity with a high efficiency and use that to drive a vintage electric motor in engine room. ..............Dave It has been done and I went to a demo of one for Canal Boat but the cost was horrendous. I think I have this right. You burn diesel very rich so you make CO and then add steam from the fuel cell exhaust which reacts to produce hydrogen that is then delivered to the fuel cell stack. The problem is that CO will "poison" the cell stack so the whole process needs close control and even so there may be a life implication for the cell stack. Cell stacks are far from cheap. There is a class of fuel cells known as direct methanol cells that use liquid methanol. They seem so similar in external design I think there is a lot of badge engineering going on. EFoy was one supplier but there are more. These are small cells used to charge batteries and the string and rag lot seem to find them useful. So far I am with Mike - the Whispergen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system 4-50 Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 27 minutes ago, dmr said: Man would of course have to hold bucket upside down. Love it! (or woman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 23 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Or even better, use it to spin up a dead vintage diesel like my Gleniffer or the Skandia to make it look like its running! As part of my job we would sometimes drive various diesel engines from a big electric motor. It was always surprising just how similar the sound was to that of the running engine. .............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Or even better, use it to spin up a dead vintage diesel like my Gleniffer or the Skandia to make it look like its running! Good Idea ,you could lob some of those Caps that they use in Kids Cowboy Guns down the Exhaust so there would be some erratic Banging,I guess that would sound familiar to you? Edited December 3, 2017 by cereal tiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 Similar idea to these which have been around a few years now: http://www.efoy.com/ Not sure what the BSC examiners would make of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said: Similar idea to these which have been around a few years now: http://www.efoy.com/ Not sure what the BSC examiners would make of one. When I raised the question with them about methanol in a plastic bottle and an unknown "rubber" tube between I felt I did not get a satisfactory answer. Also when I talked to Efoy (at the national outdoor show in Birmingham) they had no idea about BSS requirements and could not satisfy me about the fire resistance of the bottle or tube. I think the BSS Office decided at the time that any potential problem was not worth addressing. Just to restate the OP is on about a hydrogen powered fuel cell. These have been around for a number of years for site use - at a price. The Efoy and the "marine" equivalents are methanol powered. I am not sure how easy it is to get methanol mail order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: When I raised the question with them about methanol in a plastic bottle and an unknown "rubber" tube between I felt I did not get a satisfactory answer. Also when I talked to Efoy (at the national outdoor show in Birmingham) they had no idea about BSS requirements and could not satisfy me about the fire resistance of the bottle or tube. I think the BSS Office decided at the time that any potential problem was not worth addressing. Just to restate the OP is on about a hydrogen powered fuel cell. These have been around for a number of years for site use - at a price. The Efoy and the "marine" equivalents are methanol powered. I am not sure how easy it is to get methanol mail order. You can buy the fuel cells for the Efoy through Efoy themselves and get them delivered by courier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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