how much to have a fit out done

[Acorn]

can anyone tell me that if i bought a sailaway how much roughly would i expect to spend on gettng a fitter to fit it out for me and how long would it take them.

i know if will prob depend on my requirments. but lets say a standard fit out with galley fixed double, lights, gas connected and all the stuff u would need to use it as a weekend and holiday boat.. thats assuming i can get one with electrics already fitted.

 

thanks

and any boat fitters anyione can reccommend please..

Acorn

[dor]

Lined, painted, 57ft semi-trad sailaway, say best part of £40K. Finished boat 60K to 150K.

 

So fitout cost £20K to £110K.

 

All depends on what you want.

[Gary Peacock]

can anyone tell me that if i bought a sailaway how much roughly would i expect to spend on gettng a fitter to fit it out for me and how long would it take them.

i know if will prob depend on my requirments. but lets say a standard fit out with galley fixed double, lights, gas connected and all the stuff u would need to use it as a weekend and holiday boat.. thats assuming i can get one with electrics already fitted.

 

thanks

and any boat fitters anyione can reccommend please..

Acorn

 

I doubt you would save much money that way, the more people you involve that need to make a profit the more the over all costs tend to increase.

[WJM]

Gary,

 

That would suggest that you are loss-leadering with some components of a complete boat - is the shell included at cost to secure the fit-out work?

[anthony]

I dont wish to sound funny but if you ask a builder to build a wall and how long it will take, the reality after you have employed them is always diferent to the original conversation you had.

 

Have a look at this website as an example to get an idea of pricing and go and have a look at what spending a few extra thousand gets you in terms of the shell itself. http://www.lmbs.co.uk/frame.htm

 

They dont tell you they build quality shells or are a small bespoke firm so thats why they charge over the odds for a replica narrow dutch barge with straight sides for example.

They offer a range of known builders shells who's reputations speak for themselves with whatever options you want without the baloney so many others who i have spoken to feel the need to express.

 

IM still pondering over a narrowboat to live on and keep researching.

Its all the little details that add up like water pumps at £70 and certain fittings.

30K seems to get you a lot of boat from this firm though.

You could save a fair bit by doing some stuff yourself but then you have to ask yourself can you take 3 months off work ect.

 

 

Good luck and keep asking lots of questions there are lots of people on here who know their stuff.

 

Ive got a cheap fiberglass cruiser for holidays and weekends and finding it an excellent way to learn lots before making the big splash on a narrowboat.

[carlt]

Gary,

 

That would suggest that you are loss-leadering with some components of a complete boat - is the shell included at cost to secure the fit-out work?

It suggests to me that specialist boat fitters charge more because the boat builder can spread his profit over the whole build.

 

Get a builder to build you a house from bare ground to moving in is a lot cheaper than employing a groundworks company, a bricklayer, a plumber, a plasterer, a chippy etc. all separately to build one.

[John Orentas]

There are of course a dozen options for buying a boat, I would suggest though that buying a sailaway and getting someone to fit it out is one of the worst of them, all you are doing is creating two profit lines and you will be giving both suppliers a perfect excuse for any kind of problems, they will stand there and point at one another.

 

Personally I would say that if you don't have the resources to buy at least a mid range fully completed boat I would go for a second hand one, there are a lot of nice very little used boats on the market but bear in mind that rather like posh houses the more you spend the more you get in proportion. Like the purchase of other things there is a great temptation to buy a new one for what seems at the time to be very logical reasons but remember a boat is only new for about a week.

 

Many people attempt to buy a boat in a similar way as buying a car, they make an evaluation based on it's paper specification, that does not work with boats, you must get out and take a look. I have been very surprised at the reaction to the sale of my boat, on this site alone I have had interest expressed by ten or fifteen people, not one person has taken the trouble to come and take a look at it.

 

You can't buy a boat by mail order get out there, bounce on the seats and take it for a short trip. Look at the engine, is it clean and tidy or is it buried out of the way so it doesn't matter. Look at the plumbing system, can you get at everything if you develop a leak, can you change the water pump when you need to. All the above applies to new ones too.

[carlt]

I dont wish to sound funny but if you ask a builder to build a wall and how long it will take, the reality after you have employed them is always diferent to the original conversation you had.

Simple solution to this....Ask for a quote, not an estimate. I've always provided quotes which are binding on both parties, an estimate is from someone who doesn't know how to cost his job properly.

[carlt]

I have been very surprised at the reaction to the sale of my boat, on this site alone I have had interest expressed by ten or fifteen people, not one person has taken the trouble to come and take a look at it.

Maybe you're scaring them off John (please don't take that the wrong way).

The pictures in your gallery, your attention to detail (observed over communicating with you over time through the forum), and what seems to be a reasonable valuation makes it look like a very attractive self-fitout boat which people ought to be coming to view so, there must be some other reason.

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm having a go but, like you, I'm surprised no'one's bought, never mind viewed, your boat.

Edited June 26, 2007 by carlt

[KenK]

Unless you have just won the lottery that's a crazy way to buy anything and even if you have it's still crazy. Unless you are going to live on the boat full time it is always going to be an expensive hobby. So decide a budget and then go out and see what you can get for your money. New prices for a fully finished boat tend to start at £1000 per foot after that it depends how deep your pockets are. Second hand you pays your money and makes your choice but the quality and price don't always go hand in hand. Also don't forget once you have bought it it is going to cost around £3000 a year to keep running and a lot more in some parts of the country and before someone shoots me down cheaper in others.

 

Good luck in the hunt.

 

Ken

[-Jack-]

I doubt you would save much money that way, the more people you involve that need to make a profit the more the over all costs tend to increase.

 

I've now built 1 narrowboat, 1 widebeam + 3 houses all using sub-contractors. All built at considerable savings over employing " a builder". You do need to know what you are doing when you are employing subbies and you also need to know the correct price for the job; otherwise you will make very expensive mistakes.

 

You can build a boat for less than a builder charges; unless you expect him to make no profit and therefore go bust.

 

We lived on boats for 25yrs and have now tried living in houses for 3 years. We are not happy ashore and need to get back on the water.

 

Garry, I'm now planning another 55ft'ish narrowboat for next Spring so we can get back on the water. Do you want to build it for me at a 'trade' price and save me the hassle of the subbies?

[Gary Peacock]

Gary,

 

That would suggest that you are loss-leadering with some components of a complete boat - is the shell included at cost to secure the fit-out work?

 

Building a high quality hull only in the UK isn't really worthwhile, the only way to make it profitable is to build lots of easy hulls or build a very cut price one.

 

Some of the more complex hulls will very much end up loss leaders to secure an expensive fit out but obviously have to be sold if it's just a hull at a reasonable profit.

 

A lot of mid range hull builders are now finding that the market is barely viable because of costs and reduction in demand.

 

There is also a contentious issue within the boat building industry itself between boat builders and fitters.

 

Boat builders will normally be able to do 100% of the build in house and keep prices down while maintaining control and quality.

 

Boat fitters have less overheads because lots of the job is sub contracted, but they have to manage those contractors to get the prices and quality required.

 

In reality both methods have pluses and minuses.

 

The hull builder boat fitter relationship is a complex relationship in an unsteady market the hull builder will often build hulls for a fitter promising regular orders at good prices but will not do the same for a private sale.

 

One of the recently demised hull builders built specifically for one fitter but when that fitter ran out of orders the hull builder was finished more or less over night.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Gary Peacock

[WJM]

Interesting - there is nothing wrong with loss-leadering or at-cost selling if it is part of a strategy. I have one department in my business that has not, and will not ever, make any profit. I simply sell its services at raw cost. It feeds departments downstream and by doing it this way it allows me to undercut my competitors who chase profitability in all departments. I watch the narrowboat boat building industry with interest. I think if I were involved I would do shells at-cost to feed a profitable fit-out business.

[John Orentas]

Maybe you're scaring them off John (please don't take that the wrong way).

The pictures in your gallery, your attention to detail (observed over communicating with you over time through the forum), and what seems to be a reasonable valuation makes it look like a very attractive self-fitout boat which people ought to be coming to view so, there must be some other reason.

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm having a go but, like you, I'm surprised no'one's bought, never mind viewed, your boat.

 

 

Hi Carl.

 

Not offended in any way, but I am genuinely puzzled, when I reply to enquiries I make a great point of using as light a touch as possible, I agree a hard sell is a certain way to put people off. I have considered reducing the price but what would be the use of that, if they don't look at the boat they can't buy it no matter what the price is.

[anthony]

so do none of you think 30 k for a new sailaway extra lined as advertised on the site i posted above is worth it?

I cant really see why there would be any finger pointing between the builder and the fitter if there isnt much left to do.

 

I understand John thinks a sailaway is a waste but if you havnt got the time to fit out a shell from scratch a sailaway with options is a lot more sensible surely?

 

Taking a look on websites like Apollo duck and boats and outboards you dont get much for 20k other than an old boat needing a survey so why would you want to buy a 10 year old plus boat for 20k and more?

Edited June 26, 2007 by anthony

[John Orentas]

so do none of you think 30 k for a new sailaway extra lined as advertised on the site i posted above is worth it?

I cant really see why there would be any finger pointing between the builder and the fitter if there isnt much left to do.

 

I understand John thinks a sailaway is a waste but if you havnt got the time to fit out a shell from scratch a sailaway with options is a lot more sensible surely?

 

Taking a look on websites like Apollo duck and boats and outboards you dont get much for 20k other than an old boat needing a survey so why would you want to buy a 10 year old plus boat for 20k and more?

 

 

No I have nothing against sailaways and 30K seems a sensible price, don't under estimate the remaining work though. I think the point I made a few months ago was along the lines that fitting a boat up to sailaway spec. all the jobs tend to be the lower skilled ones that the average person could tackle anyway. Fitting an engine is not a difficult as may be imagined either, anyone who can service a car can install an engine but again there is a lot of work in terms of shear quantity, rather more than you first imagine.

 

The main difficulty in tackling a boat in those early stages is the intimidating nature of it, a boat looks big when floating in the water but on dry land and 'black' it is huge, your first thought is 'Good God what have I taken on here'.

 

The good news about fitting out your own boat is that all those horrible, heavy, messy jobs are the early stage ones and are done while you are still fired with enthusiasm.

Edited June 27, 2007 by John Orentas

[KenK]

so do none of you think 30 k for a new sailaway extra lined as advertised on the site i posted above is worth it?

I cant really see why there would be any finger pointing between the builder and the fitter if there isnt much left to do.

 

I understand John thinks a sailaway is a waste but if you havnt got the time to fit out a shell from scratch a sailaway with options is a lot more sensible surely?

 

Taking a look on websites like Apollo duck and boats and outboards you dont get much for 20k other than an old boat needing a survey so why would you want to buy a 10 year old plus boat for 20k and more?

 

Your original post asked about getting a fitter to do the job. If you do it yourself it would possibly work out cheaper. However you need to factor in finding somewhere to do it, given our current weather inside would be best. Then how long is it going to take you? If your working it is only evenings and weekends. I think you need to look carefully at what you want, a boat to go cruising or a project.

 

Good luck

 

Ken

[Acorn]

Your original post asked about getting a fitter to do the job. If you do it yourself it would possibly work out cheaper. However you need to factor in finding somewhere to do it, given our current weather inside would be best. Then how long is it going to take you? If your working it is only evenings and weekends. I think you need to look carefully at what you want, a boat to go cruising or a project.

 

Good luck

 

Ken

What a lot of differnt of opinions.

i looked at that site before i posted my qeustion and i thought that it looked ok. I dont have the time or the know how on fitting a boat myself. if i go for the top end of the boats that are on that site. say the 45ft with the added extras for 30k 500. i am just wondering how much more i would need to spend on the inisde my budget is limited, but i want a decent boat. my wife has arthritis and not getting any younger. we just want to buy a boat that is nice and comfy that can acomodate the grandchildren for the odd weekend and family members every now and then. we wont be living on it. its a retreat . we prob wont go sailing that much the grandkids can do that with it.. but i do like my home comforts .. and before anyone says anything about that NO i dont want a caravan ! we have a plastic cruiser at the moment but my wife finds if difficult getting on and off.

 

are these boats on this site good boats is the company recommended. does anyone have any experience with them.

i dont know anything about narrowboats at all the only boat i have ever owned is my Norman 23.

and i will miss it if i have to sell and not get any boat . so I am trying to keep me and my wife happy at the same time.

Acorn

[KenK]

I dont have the time or the know how on fitting a boat myself. if i go for the top end of the boats that are on that site. say the 45ft with the added extras for 30k 500. i am just wondering how much more i would need to spend on the inisde my budget is limited, but i want a decent boat.

Acorn

 

In that case forget the sailaway. There are plenty of good 45ft boats around ready to go between £30,000 - £40,000. Have a look at the Used Boat Co website http://www.theusedboat.co.uk As John said in an earlier post you do need to go and look at the boats. Web sites and magazines and brokers all make the boats sound wonderful but the reality can be different. Many people have a strange idea about what their boat is worth and don't forget the advertised price is only a starting point. There are always more boats for sale than buyers some boats we looked at two years ago when we were looking to buy are still for sale.

 

Ken

[Hekaterine]

I would wholeheartedly agree - get yourself a good second-hand boat. Decide in advance what your spec is - central heating, number of berths or whatever and have a good look round to see what is selling in your (relatively) local area.

 

We had to have quite a tight spec because of my OH's health problems, which meant we had to discount a number of boats on first glance but did find the perfect boat within our price range. It is only 10 years old, the survey showed it was sound and it only needed painting, which was why the owner had struggled to sell it.

 

There are some real bargains to be had out there and, just because a boat isn't new, doesn't mean it won't be sound.

 

Good luck

 

Karen and Keith

[mayalld]

What a lot of differnt of opinions.

i looked at that site before i posted my qeustion and i thought that it looked ok. I dont have the time or the know how on fitting a boat myself. if i go for the top end of the boats that are on that site. say the 45ft with the added extras for 30k 500. i am just wondering how much more i would need to spend on the inisde my budget is limited, but i want a decent boat. my wife has arthritis and not getting any younger. we just want to buy a boat that is nice and comfy that can acomodate the grandchildren for the odd weekend and family members every now and then. we wont be living on it. its a retreat . we prob wont go sailing that much the grandkids can do that with it.. but i do like my home comforts .. and before anyone says anything about that NO i dont want a caravan ! we have a plastic cruiser at the moment but my wife finds if difficult getting on and off.

 

are these boats on this site good boats is the company recommended. does anyone have any experience with them.

i dont know anything about narrowboats at all the only boat i have ever owned is my Norman 23.

and i will miss it if i have to sell and not get any boat . so I am trying to keep me and my wife happy at the same time.

Acorn

I think that the executive summary of everything so far is;

 

Buying a sailaway and paying to have it fitted out will ALWAYS work out more expensve that buying a fully fitted boat.

[Acorn]

I think that the executive summary of everything so far is;

 

Buying a sailaway and paying to have it fitted out will ALWAYS work out more expensve that buying a fully fitted boat.

 

Thankyou to all of you my eyes are well and truly opened now to narrowboat buying..

 

we will start to look in a few weeks as we are off on our holidays at the end of july.

we will have more time to look then.

 

whilton marina has been mentioned to us. i would value anyones opinion on them if there are any.

thanks again

Acorn

[bottle]

Acorn

 

Most of the 'marina's' selling boats are like estate agents, they are only agents for the person selling the boat.

 

Visit as many as possible but start with the internet most of them have sites, this will give you an idea as to what is available.

 

Check before you travel as sometimes the boat will have been sold.

 

Whilton marina

 

ABNB at Crick

 

just a couple to get you started.

 

Good luck, enjoy the experience there are lots of boats out there.

[Hekaterine]

Canal Boat Sales at Crick marina are worth a look as well - which is where we got ours. They were very helpful even though we were naive to the point of annoying at times.

 

They are at www.canalboatsales.com

[Acorn]

Canal Boat Sales at Crick marina are worth a look as well - which is where we got ours. They were very helpful even though we were naive to the point of annoying at times.

 

They are at www.canalboatsales.com

Thanks for the links some nice boats on the ABNB one. how long would it take to get a boat from one of the locations say from crick or the grand union canal and who could i get to do it we are begginners. and would not want to undertake it on our own.

 

Acorn