Brown water in coolant tank?

[silverlode]

I went to check the water/coolant levels in the engine before running it for a bit, but it was full to the point of overflowing with brown coloured water. Not oily. What does this mean? Where could the extra water have come from? Google & the manual were no help at all. Can I drain it? If so, how? It's a Vetus. Panicking a bit, thank you!!

[WotEver]

Do you have a skin tank? If so is it internal or external?

[silverlode]

Do you have a skin tank? If so is it internal or external?

Yes, internal. Steel box welded to inside of hull with 2 pipes running from it? One pipe high one pipe low down.

 

V v new to engines, apologies if I sound stupid!

 

I left the cap off and it's gone down very slightly (not overflowed - literally receeded a bit.)

Edited February 2, 2017 by silverlode

[Bloomsberry]

Possible causes that I can think of

Leaking skin tank - Canal water getting in the coolant, Is the head of the coolant at the same height of the canal water outside ?

Leaking calorifier - Does the water pump keep coming on occasionally ? Is there a lot of pressure when releasing the coolant tank top

Leaking heat exchanger - if the engine coolant provides heating for a CH system - If there's a header tank I would expect the level here to drop as water leaks to the engine coolant side.

 

When was the coolant last changed ?

Edited February 2, 2017 by Bloomsberry

[silverlode]

Possible causes that I can think of

 

Leaking skin tank - Canal water getting in the coolant, Is the head of the coolant at the same height of the canal water outside ?

 

Leaking calorifier - Does the water pump keep coming on occasionally ? Is there a lot of pressure when releasing the coolant tank top

 

Leaking heat exchanger - if the engine coolant provides heating for a CH system - If there's a header tank I would expect the level here to drop as water leaks to the engine coolant side.

 

 

When was the coolant last changed ?

Water pump seems fine - coming on only when it should.

 

No central heating, though there is a switch labelled 'ch pump' which I've always wondered about.

 

Coolant similar height to canal I suppose? But it's hard to tell for sure. Boat got bashed about in the awful winds last night so I'm worried something happened...

[Guest]

I went to check the water/coolant levels in the engine before running it for a bit, but it was full to the point of overflowing with brown coloured water. Not oily. What does this mean? Where could the extra water have come from? Google & the manual were no help at all. Can I drain it? If so, how? It's a Vetus. Panicking a bit, thank you!!

Our Vetus used to do similar and dump coolant in the bilges. I did a little mod to stop this. http://destinynarrowboat.weebly.com/vetus.html

Does it have the plastic type header tank, and is this what was overflowing?

Have you taken the cap off the heat exchanger on the actual engine, and was/is this full? (the yellow metal tank with the filler next to the oil filler cap. see pic below)

Have you topped the coolant up recently?

I have known Vetus engines airlock and funny things can then happen, including leaving water in the plastic header tank.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Guest

[Bee]

I wouldn't worry about the water being brown, its rust and comes from the engine and /or the skin tank. In a perfect world it wouldn't be brown but there you go. Have you got anti freeze in it? most contain corrosion inhibitor which helps a bit. Check that you have and if any doubt then drain the lot out and put some in. If you are still draining water out after an hour or two then you may indeed have canal water in your skin tank. Don't worry about the wind and getting bashed about, it takes a lot to damage a steel boat. Others will be along with more knowledge soon.

[silverlode]

Our Vetus used to do similar and dump coolant in the bilges. I did a little mod to stop this. http://destinynarrowboat.weebly.com/vetus.html

Does it have the plastic type header tank, and is this what was overflowing?

Have you taken the cap off the heat exchanger on the actual engine, and was/is this full? (the yellow metal tank with the filler next to the oil filler cap. see pic below)

Have you topped the coolant up recently?

I have known Vetus engines airlock and funny things can then happen, including leaving water in the plastic header tank.

I topped it up a couple of times recently as it looked a bit low. It was overflowing when I took the cap off (where the red arrow is on your photo.)

[Guest]

I topped it up a couple of times recently as it looked a bit low. It was overflowing when I took the cap off (where the red arrow is on your photo.)

I would make sure that the plastic header tank is empty, keep the level about half an inch below the cap on the yellow tank on the cold engine, and run it up to temp. with both caps in place.

If it then "makes" more water you are getting extraneous water from somewhere. I find it best to have the plastic header tank almost empty when the engine is cold (I ignore the max/min marks), else the water has insufficient space to expand to. Some people add a second plastic bottle on the Vetus for this very reason.

Seems to happen often on Vetus skin tank cooled engines.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Guest

[silverlode]

I wouldn't worry about the water being brown, its rust and comes from the engine and /or the skin tank. In a perfect world it wouldn't be brown but there you go. Have you got anti freeze in it? most contain corrosion inhibitor which helps a bit. Check that you have and if any doubt then drain the lot out and put some in. If you are still draining water out after an hour or two then you may indeed have canal water in your skin tank. Don't worry about the wind and getting bashed about, it takes a lot to damage a steel boat. Others will be along with more knowledge soon.

I was wondering if I was overreacting about the colour, but the fact it has got fuller is a worry. I'd quite like to drain it and refill it with fresh coolant/water, as I've only recently bought the boat, so I've no idea when it was last changed/topped up. I don't know how to do this though, as it doesn't say in the manual!

 

I know boats are sturdy but I do worry! It's very unsettling being bashed against the bank, didn't sleep a wink

I would make sure that the plastic header tank is empty, keep the level about half an inch below the cap on the yellow tank on the engine, and run it up to temp. with both caps in place.

If it then "makes" more water you are getting extraneous water from somewhere. I find it best to have the plastic header tank almost empty when the engine is cold, else the water has insufficent space to expand to. Some people add a second plastic bottle on the vetus for this very reason.

I'm not entirely sure what the plastic header tank is, but I'll have a look in daylight tomorrow, and do as you suggested. Thank you

Edited February 2, 2017 by silverlode

[Guest]

I was wondering if I was overreacting about the colour, but the fact it has got fuller is a worry. I'd quite like to drain it and refill it with fresh coolant/water, as I've only recently bought the boat, so I've no idea when it was last changed/topped up. I don't know how to do this though, as it doesn't say in the manual!

 

I know boats are sturdy but I do worry! It's very unsettling being bashed against the bank, didn't sleep a wink

 

I'm not entirely sure what the plastic header tank is, but I'll have a look in daylight tomorrow, and do as you suggested. Thank you

 

I was wondering if I was overreacting about the colour, but the fact it has got fuller is a worry. I'd quite like to drain it and refill it with fresh coolant/water, as I've only recently bought the boat, so I've no idea when it was last changed/topped up. I don't know how to do this though, as it doesn't say in the manual!

 

I know boats are sturdy but I do worry! It's very unsettling being bashed against the bank, didn't sleep a wink

 

I'm not entirely sure what the plastic header tank is, but I'll have a look in daylight tomorrow, and do as you suggested. Thank you

Can't find the pic I wanted, but there should be a white plastic bottle, somewhere higher than the engine (often on the bulkhead in the engine hole.) This is fed by a rubber pipe from the engine usually about 1/2 inch diameter. This is for the coolant to expand to.

 

If the overflowing water you describe is coming from the cap on top of the engine (red arrow in pic) you likely don't have a problem, it is likely flowing back from the header tank (given that you have one.)

 

Nearest I can find on Google:

Edited February 2, 2017 by Guest

[Mac of Cygnet]

I was wondering if I was overreacting about the colour, but the fact it has got fuller is a worry. I'd quite like to drain it and refill it with fresh coolant/water, as I've only recently bought the boat, so I've no idea when it was last changed/topped up. I don't know how to do this though, as it doesn't say in the manual!

 

I know boats are sturdy but I do worry! It's very unsettling being bashed against the bank, didn't sleep a wink

 

I'm not entirely sure what the plastic header tank is, but I'll have a look in daylight tomorrow, and do as you suggested. Thank you

Catweasel may have a plastic header tank on his Vetus, but I don't on mine and since you don't mention such an obvious thing, I guess you don't on yours either - just the thing arrowed on Catweasel's photo which looks like a car radiator cap. There may be a thin rubber hose coming out just below this cap to deal with any overflow due to expansion of the coolant. If so, put a container under the other end of it, and leave it for a while, both with the engine running and not. If no more than say 1/4 cupful appears in the cup in that time or longer, I wouldn't worry. (Make sure the hose end is above the level of the liquid). If more water keeps coming out, then you've got a leak into your cooling system due to one of the causes suggested above.

[silverlode]

 

Can't find the pic I wanted, but there should be a white plastic bottle, somewhere higher than the engine (often on the bulkhead in the engine hole.) This is fed by a rubber pipe from the engine usually about 1/2 inch diameter. This is for the coolant to expand to. If the overflowing water you describe is coming from the cap on top of the engine (red arrow in pic) you may not have a problem, it is likely flowing back from the header tank (given that you have one.)

Hmm, ok thank you, I'll have a look for that tomorrow! I don't remember seeing it but I may have just overlooked it. So emptying the header tank may solve the overflow? I hope that's all it is.

Catweasel may have a plastic header tank on his Vetus, but I don't on mine and since you don't mention such an obvious thing, I guess you don't on yours either - just the thing arrowed on Catweasel's photo which looks like a car radiator cap. There may be a thin rubber hose coming out just below this cap to deal with any overflow due to expansion of the coolant. If so, put a container under the other end of it, and leave it for a while, both with the engine running and not. If no more than say 1/4 cupful appears in the cup in that time or longer, I wouldn't worry. (Make sure the hose end is above the level of the liquid). If more water keeps coming out, then you've got a leak into your cooling system due to one of the causes suggested above.

Aha! There are a couple of open ended hoses in the engine bay, coming from various places. There's about 2 inches of rainwater in the engine bay at the moment, so I wouldn't have noticed any amount of overflow. Unless it is coolant rather than rainwater... hmm. I'll find the right hose and do as you suggested, thank you!

[Guest]

Catweasel may have a plastic header tank on his Vetus, but I don't on mine and since you don't mention such an obvious thing, I guess you don't on yours either - just the thing arrowed on Catweasel's photo which looks like a car radiator cap. There may be a thin rubber hose coming out just below this cap to deal with any overflow due to expansion of the coolant. If so, put a container under the other end of it, and leave it for a while, both with the engine running and not. If no more than say 1/4 cupful appears in the cup in that time or longer, I wouldn't worry. (Make sure the hose end is above the level of the liquid). If more water keeps coming out, then you've got a leak into your cooling system due to one of the causes suggested above.

Interesting, not seen a Vetus skin tank cooled without a plastic header of some sort before.

Just for future reference what Vetus is this, and is it on a skin tank? Cheers.

Hmm, ok thank you, I'll have a look for that tomorrow! I don't remember seeing it but I may have just overlooked it. So emptying the header tank may solve the overflow? I hope that's all it is.

 

Aha! There are a couple of open ended hoses in the engine bay, coming from various places. There's about 2 inches of rainwater in the engine bay at the moment, so I wouldn't have noticed any amount of overflow. Unless it is coolant rather than rainwater... hmm. I'll find the right hose and do as you suggested, thank you!

If it has a header tank (but see Mac of Cygnets post!) I tend to keep the water very low. in this. Maybe about 1 inch.

[Guest]

Hmm, ok thank you, I'll have a look for that tomorrow! I don't remember seeing it but I may have just overlooked it. So emptying the header tank may solve the overflow? I hope that's all it is.

 

Aha! There are a couple of open ended hoses in the engine bay, coming from various places. There's about 2 inches of rainwater in the engine bay at the moment, so I wouldn't have noticed any amount of overflow. Unless it is coolant rather than rainwater... hmm. I'll find the right hose and do as you suggested, thank you!

Sounds like they could be the ones (if no header tank.). Which Vetus is this? Mine is the 415.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Guest

[silverlode]

Sounds like they could be the ones (if no header tank.). Which Vetus is this? Mine is the 415.

Mine's a 414

[Guest]

Mine's a 414

That'll expain it 414 is an earlier engine than the 415 with a few significant differences. My mate had a 414 in his boat about 20 years ago which is still going strong. Excellent engine. can't remeber the coolant setup now though. The 415 is also outdated now with a complete new range from Vetus.

 

Does yours look like this with a pipe from filler cap?

 

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Guest

[silverlode]

That'll expain it 414 is an earlier engine than the 415 with a few significant differences. My mate had a 414 in his boat about 20 years ago which is still going strong. Excellent engine. can't remeber the coolant setup now though. The 415 is also outdated now with a complete new range from Vetus.

 

Does yours look like this with a pipe from filler cap?

 

 

No pipe from the cap... could it be on the side? I might not look tonight - windy and wet

 

Everyone who knows what they're talking about have said it's a really good engine, so hopefully it just has a few quirks that I have to learn...

Edited February 2, 2017 by silverlode

[Guest]

No pipe from the cap... could it be on the side? I might not look tonight - windy and wet

 

Everyone who knows what they're talking about have said it's a really good engine, so hopefully it just has a few quirks that I have to learn...

Can't remember sorry it is 20 years since I saw a 414 in a canal boat. I would have thought the vent pipe would be at the highest point on the yellow tank somewhere, possibly just below the filler cap and to one side. But others who have the 414 will know better than I. It must have a vent somewhere I would think!

 

A bloke who moored near us (might have been an Isuzu engine) just used to dangle the pipe in question into an empty pop bottle and left it there. It kind of looked after itself.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Guest

[Neil Smith]

It might just have the steel tube about an inch long that the plastic pipe pushes over.

 

Neil

[silverlode]

Can't remember sorry it is 20 years since I saw a 414 in a canal boat. I would have thought the vent pipe would be at the highest point on the yellow tank somewhere, possibly just below the filler cap and to one side. But others who have the 414 will know better than I. It must have a vent somewhere I would think!

 

A bloke who moored near us (might have been an Isuzu engine) just used to dangle the pipe in question into an empty pop bottle and left it there. It kind of looked after itself.

Might try that!

 

It might just have the steel tube about an inch long that the plastic pipe pushes over.

 

Neil

Aha, good thinking - I'll have a look tomorrow.

 

 

 

Thought I should add - the engine was making an odd noise, or rather, was varying in pitch - sort of revving a little. Did the same thing both times I tried so I switched it off immediately. Does this shed any light?

Edited February 2, 2017 by silverlode

[Guest]

Might try that!

 

Aha, good thinking - I'll have a look tomorrow.

In his case it just seemed to expel water into the pop bottle and then draw it back in as it cooled. Must be worth a try if indeed your coolant just vents into the bilge?

[WotEver]

My Vetus (M3.10) didn't have an expansion bottle either, just the plastic tube on the spigot which used to spit its water out if I overfilled it. Eventually I stopped over filling it

[silverlode]

In his case it just seemed to expel water into the pop bottle and then draw it back in as it cooled. Must be worth a try if indeed your coolant just vents into the bilge?

Thing is, the coolant only spilled out when I took the lid off. OOH!! I've just realised what it might be... if it sucks it back in, perhaps it's sucking up the rainwater in the engine bay?! I'll have a look for the hose, and see where the end of it is. It'll definitely need draining if so. (Any help with draining coolant from a Vetus 414 much appreciated...)

[Cheshire cat]

If there hasn't been any antifreeze put in the engine for a year or two it's almost certainly rust from the engine block.

 

I would drain the engine, flush it and put fresh antifreeze and water in.