Don't arrive at Sharpness Lock without a CRT licence

[Naughty Cal]

 

Of course you do, don't be daft. They let you stay there for free do they? Wonderful.

 

Paying for a visitor mooring is a completely different kettle of fish to paying for a licence which allows you to use a waterway.

[hounddog]

How sure are we as to what the ACTUAL policy is?

 

 

The right to safe haven for the occupants, but not the vessel , is customary international maritime law.

 

 

 

1. It's stated on the website

 

2. Absolute rubbish. Safe haven applies by convention to the ship as well as the occupants.

Paying for a visitor mooring is a completely different kettle of fish to paying for a licence which allows you to use a waterway.

 

Absolute bullshit. Clutching at straws.

 

The right to stay in a port is the right to entry to that port. If you arrive at Calais, you will be asked to pay, if you don't pay you will be refused entry (subject to the aforementioned safe haven laws, in which case your vessel will be impounded until you do pay).

[Naughty Cal]

 

1. It's stated on the website

 

2. Absolute rubbish. Safe haven applies by convention to the ship as well as the occupants.

 

Absolute bullshit. Clutching at straws.

 

The right to stay in a port is the right to entry to that port. If you arrive at Calais, you will be asked to pay, if you don't pay you will be refused entry (subject to the aforementioned safe haven laws, in which case your vessel will be impounded until you do pay).

Do you rely on everything you read on the internet?

[hounddog]

Do you rely on everything you read on the internet?

 

This forum is truly pathetic sometimes.

 

"it's the duty of a mariner to check port availability"

"how do I do that?"

"on the internet"

"the internet says I can pay at the port"

"Do you rely on everything you read on the internet?"

 

Where else would you like me to check CRT policy before setting off? By recorded delivery letter to Richard Parry?

[mayalld]

 

1. It's stated on the website

 

2. Absolute rubbish. Safe haven applies by convention to the ship as well as the occupants.

 

Absolute bullshit. Clutching at straws.

 

The right to stay in a port is the right to entry to that port. If you arrive at Calais, you will be asked to pay, if you don't pay you will be refused entry (subject to the aforementioned safe haven laws, in which case your vessel will be impounded until you do pay).

 

1) What is stated on the website, and what the lockie states are NOT the same thing. What is stated on the web site is the established position over some years, and has NOT been changed. What is stated by the lockie is contrary to this. As such, given that the ONLY source for this new policy is "the lockie told me", we may reasonably ask whether it is an accurate account of policy.

 

2) Once you start dealing with conventional international law, you are in a space where there are few absolutes, and no written corpus that might be definitive. So far as I can see, there is pretty much universal agreement amongst jurists that there is a right to safe haven for the occupants of a vessel. So far as the vessel itself is concerned, there is very wide agreement that there is a similar right, but there is NOT universal agreement.

[Naughty Cal]

 

This forum is truly pathetic sometimes.

 

"it's the duty of a mariner to check port availability"

"how do I do that?"

"on the internet"

"the internet says I can pay at the port"

"Do you rely on everything you read on the internet?"

 

Where else would you like me to check CRT policy before setting off? By recorded delivery letter to Richard Parry?

By phone would be a better option.

 

The internet is full of out of date information across a range of subjects.

 

Speaking to a person where you are heading for will get you the up to date information for the place you are destined.

[blackrose]

I'm joining this discussion rather late and have only skimmed through the thread so not sure if this has been covered, but if CRT are no longer handling cash then it's not just going to be licence fees that are affected but lockage fees too. Those with only short term licences have to pay £25 to use the lock. At least that was the situation when I came though sharpness 4 years ago.

 

Also, Sharpness has a big floating pontoon that boats use while waiting for the lock. If I found myself denied entry that's where I'd moor while trying to sort things out rather than going back out onto the tideway. Same at Limehouse.

[matty40s]

By recorded delivery letter to Richard Parry?

 

Well, according to Nicknorman we can't believe what he says either..

[PaulG]

I'm joining this discussion rather late and have only skimmed through the thread so not sure if this has been covered, but if CRT are no longer handling cash then it's not just going to be licence fees that are affected but lockage fees too. Those with only short term licences have to pay £25 to use the lock. At least that was the situation when I came though sharpness 4 years ago.

 

Also, Sharpness has a big floating pontoon that boats use while waiting for the lock. If I found myself denied entry that's where I'd moor while trying to sort things out rather than going back out onto the tideway. Same at Limehouse.

You get a number of free passages though the lock, depending on the duration of your CRT licence (3 months or above)

"Fees for leisure craft passing through the Sea Lock at Sharpness. Lockage fee of £25 per boat per lockage Appropriate Canal and River Licence Long Term Licence holders (River & Canal or River Only) benefit from a number of inclusive lock passages: 12 Months -16 lock passages, 6 Months - 8 lock passages 3 Months-4 lock passages."

 

Not entirely sure that this information is correct as it was off the CRT website.

 

Maybe someone can phone the lockie...

Edited December 9, 2016 by PaulG

[blackrose]

You get a number of free passages though the lock, depending on the duration of your CRT licence (3 months or above)

"Fees for leisure craft passing through the Sea Lock at Sharpness. Lockage fee of £25 per boat per lockage Appropriate Canal and River Licence Long Term Licence holders (River & Canal or River Only) benefit from a number of inclusive lock passages: 12 Months -16 lock passages, 6 Months - 8 lock passages 3 Months-4 lock passages."

 

Not entirely sure that this information is correct as it was off the CRT website.

 

Maybe someone can phone the lockie...

Ok, I only had a 1 month licence when I came through. But anyway, my point is that potentially could one have paid for a licence online and still be refused entry because CRT lockkeepers couldn't take cash payment for lockage fees?

Edited December 9, 2016 by blackrose

[Paul C]

 

No, as is CRT's current advice (yes, I know that is in defiance of the law but this is CRT) the issue being that an official of CRT refused to check CRT's records and thus placed a boat, and people's lives, in danger.

 

I can see that the concept of duty of care has disappeared in your mind probably at the same time as Thatcher's ascendency of the Principle of Me First.

 

I suppose you would be happy in your conscience that your actions in this situation put lives in danger. After all, they should have display the license. Remind me, where in the byelaws does it say the penalty for breach is death?

 

Thanks for answering the question. The 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are a figment of your overactive imagination, since I have been careful to only ask the simple (obvious) question here, I have not offered an opinion on the rightness/wrongness of this issue.

[Geo]

 

...thought you were going to work....

lol I haven't worn a top hat for years, as for gloves lol last time at Buck Have.

Been there for nearly 4 hours,but didn't want you to get lonely .

Edited December 9, 2016 by Geo

[Geo]

Well, according to Nicknorman we can't believe what he says either..

And you believe what NickNorman tells you. lol

You get a number of free passages though the lock, depending on the duration of your CRT licence (3 months or above)

"Fees for leisure craft passing through the Sea Lock at Sharpness. Lockage fee of £25 per boat per lockage Appropriate Canal and River Licence Long Term Licence holders (River & Canal or River Only) benefit from a number of inclusive lock passages: 12 Months -16 lock passages, 6 Months - 8 lock passages 3 Months-4 lock passages."

 

Not entirely sure that this information is correct as it was off the CRT website.

 

Maybe someone can phone the lockie...

Puzzled as to why you can't phone the lock keeper yourself?

[WotEver]

Someone else who can't read threads.

[matty40s]

Someone else who can't read threads.

No, it's the same one....

[Guest]

By phone would be a better option.

 

The internet is full of out of date information across a range of subjects.

 

Speaking to a person where you are heading for will get you the up to date information for the place you are destined.

Unless one speaks to the lockie of course (a person I assume?) who it appears may not be giving the right info.

 

This reminds me of a song about a bucket with a rusty base.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Guest

[WotEver]

This reminds me of a song about a bucket with a rusty base.

 

[Guest]

The whole thing appears to be farcical in that the OP was told "you have to do it online now" yet the information online appears to state that the system is unchanged. Somebody somewhere needs a kick where the sun don't shine.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Guest

[Paul C]

Sounds like the lockie uncharactaristically lost the key to the cashbox? I agree, the evidence here is incredibly weak that an actual policy change has occurred, it looks like a lockie just not doing their job properly. Would welcome clarification/firm evidence either way.

[PaulG]

And you believe what NickNorman tells you. lol

 

Puzzled as to why you can't phone the lock keeper yourself?

Because I believe that large public organisations (for example, a navigation authority) have a duty of care to ensure that information pertaining to the usage of the navigation that is published on the internet is accurate.

Especially so in cases where the accuracy (or the lack of it) of the information could impact upon the safety of the public.

 

So I don't consider it necessary to phone the lockie.

Others, however, disagree with me.

[Guest]

Because I believe that large public organisations (for example, a navigation authority) have a duty of care to ensure that information pertaining to the usage of the navigation that is published on the internet is accurate.

Especially so in cases where the accuracy (or the lack of it) of the information could impact upon the safety of the public.

 

So I don't consider it necessary to phone the lockie.

Others, however, disagree with me.

Agree, especially where safety is likely to be compromised. Updating a web site is not difficult; even I can do it.

[hounddog]

 

 

2) Once you start dealing with conventional international law, you are in a space where there are few absolutes, and no written corpus that might be definitive. So far as I can see, there is pretty much universal agreement amongst jurists that there is a right to safe haven for the occupants of a vessel. So far as the vessel itself is concerned, there is very wide agreement that there is a similar right, but there is NOT universal agreement.

 

So your thesis is that this convention of maritime law doesn't and shouldn't apply to the UK?

That there isn't and should not be a right of safe haven for vessel and crew in British waters?

 

Even for you this seems a tad out there simply to make an argument.

[mayalld]

 

So your thesis is that this convention of maritime law doesn't and shouldn't apply to the UK?

That there isn't and should not be a right of safe haven for vessel and crew in British waters?

 

Even for you this seems a tad out there simply to make an argument.

 

No, my thesis is nothing of the sort, and it is quite an extraordinary leap to suggest that.

 

Furthermore, I was answering a question as to the strict legal position, rather than about my views.

 

For the sake of completeness, my persona view is that CRT should ALWAYS provide safe haven.

 

The strict legal position is that anybody refusing safe haven to the occupants of the vessel IS in breach of customary international maritime law. Anybody affording safe haven to the occupants but NOT the vessel MAY be in breach.

[hounddog]

Glad to hear it.

 

So, when the lockkeeper at Sharpness says to me, hypothetically, I can't let you in because I can't accept your cash, and I say "I checked your website" and he says "the policy has changed", what is the next step?

[Naughty Cal]

Glad to hear it.

 

So, when the lockkeeper at Sharpness says to me, hypothetically, I can't let you in because I can't accept your cash, and I say "I checked your website" and he says "the policy has changed", what is the next step?

Moor on the waiting pontoon and ring CRT to get a licence?