Eberspacher heating?

[damdna]

Hi all.

 

I'm writing this in a hurry so haven't time to trawl through what is probably a huge number of posts re the installation of Eberspacher heating. Do redirect me with links if you know where my thread is already answered. :-)

 

I live aboard a 70 footer at Droitwich and the Glembring stove I have installed, with its back boiler, is reasonably efficient but due to the tiny hole designed into the stove lid, the entire boat and its contents, including me and my Pooches, have a permanent whiff of diesel about them.

 

As a student nurse, I can no longer go to work smelling like a fuel canister! I'm considering installing Eberspacher heating for radiators along the boat and a solid fuel stove in the main cabin. The boats I've stayed on where these are installed smell like homes and not garage forecourts! This is my dream....

 

What are you experiences of Eberspacher or similar systems, have you installed it and had a nightmare or a genuine success?

 

Do let me know.

 

Cheers.

 

D

[dccruiser]

Hi, have one in my 60 footer i fitted last year, not lit my solid fuel stove since as the eberspacher and rads keep the boat toasty warm .... if you would like any in depth advice regarding installation etc, please feel free to pm me , installation can be as easy as a 12 volt supply a switch a supply of diesel and an exhaust.

I still have several used ones if you are interested along with wiring looms and timers etc.

 

Rick

[Alan de Enfield]

Another happy Eberspacher customer of many years.

 

'Instant heat', if you get any smells it needs servicing but in normal use it is 'smell-free'

 

Just remember not to run it for 'a few minutes', otherwise it will 'carbon-up'.

When you put it on, leave it running for a minimum of an hour.

Make them 'work hard' (don't get one that is too big - ie huge wattage) as if they continually cycle on & off they will 'carbon up'.

5Kw seems to be the 'normal size' for a NB

 

Get the 'right size for the boat' and "Robert is your mother's brother"

[Sea Dog]

Get the smallest that meets your needs so it works hard since its short cycling on low load conditions that shortens their life (Eber published their own findings on this and it's available on pdf from their website iirc). 5kW might be right in a 70ft with plenty of rads, but if a 4kW will just about do from your calcs, go with it.

 

 

Edited to change 'calls' back to 'calcs'

Edited October 24, 2016 by Sea Dog

[RichM]

I have one for hot water and radiators, including 2 near useless fin rads. Works a treat and gives me hot water within 30 mins though I always leave it running for at least an hour. It's on a timer which is handy as I can ensure I have hot water/heating for when I get back home from work etc.

 

One thing to note is that they sound like jet engines spooling up on startup so if you need to fire it up early in the morning or late at night, the neighbours may not appreciate. Once it has started up after about 10 minutes they're much much quieter though some may still complain

[damdna]

This is incredible feedback. Thank you all. With the original installation of the Glembring diesel stove, I had a diesel tank installed under the foredeck. Any idea if this could still be used to feed fuel to the Eberspacher, even if it's installed at the stern in the engine compartment? And is it BSS standard to install in the engine compartment or can it be installed internally? Sorry to be dim!

[BlueStringPudding]

There are quite a few people who find them very unreliable though, as a quick search of the forum will show lots of previous posts saying that (mine is a swine and after not working for seven years, worked for four or five months and has been on the blink again for nearly two years). Other brands of diesel fired central heating are available.

Edited October 24, 2016 by BlueStringPudding

[damdna]

There are quite a few people who find them very unreliable though, as a quick search of the forum will show lots of previous posts saying that (mine is a swine and after not working for seven years, worked for four or five months and has been on the blink again for nearly two years). Other brands of diesel fired central heating are available.

Have to say...I'm certainly not struck on any particular brand. I'm just determined to have a warm 70 ft boat!!

[dccruiser]

There are quite a few people who find them very unreliable though, as a quick search of the forum will show lots of previous posts saying that (mine is a swine and after not working for seven years, worked for four or five months and has been on the blink again for nearly two years). Other brands of diesel fired central heating are available.

if its a d5w i have at least 6 working units sat in my garage collecting dust!

 

Rick

[chubby]

Personally , i'd be wary of having an eber / webasto as the main form of heating as i think theyre a problem waiting to happen . Thing is if they go wrong then fixing them is either very " involved " , or expensive or both .

If you fix it yourself it takes time ( did for me but im not technically minded) & effort . If someone fixes it youre looking at £60 plus per hour even if u can find someone. If it lets you down in midwinter then thats not good .

To me , & its an opinion only , simple is always best . The less that can go wrong , the less will go wrong .

Don t get me wrong , i think theyre great . I run mine most days for hot water for one hour . I stripped it down 2.5 yrs ago and its been 95% fine since .

BUT

I wouldnt like to rely on it for heating as such .

If you have a diesel tank at the front would it be worth considering a Refleks stove with back boiler ? Far more reliable i d suggest and this will allow usage of the diesel tank u already have .

OR go super simple and have a solid fuel stove again with back boiler . I love a coal fire , theres really nothing as good in depths of winter - very cosy , very comforting but dirtier than a refleks stove .

The solid fuel stove will be cheaper to run but dust is an issue . The Refleks will be cleaner but pricier to run - your call .

 

I think either of these options are better than an eber

 

I expect with a 70 ft boat it ll be difficult to heat thoroughly and u may find parts furthest from the stove cooler if you dont plan well . My boats 58 ft and the very back of boat gets cold in deep winter . Ive bought a seperate Taylors heater for the bedroom but not fitted it yet , just for the very coldest months ( im a southener & gone soft in my mid 40s ) .

Theres many options and a fair bit of planning involved - 70 fts alot to keep warm and so altho i d happily endorse ebers ( mine at least ) id steer clear of having to " rely " on one but for hot water mines great .

cheers

Edited October 25, 2016 by chubby

[Sea Dog]

It's all the same to me whatever brand you choose, but I think Eberspacher in particular get quite a lot of undeserved bad press on reliability. The main issues they suffer from, like most of the brands, are poor installation and being used too lightly. Trying to use them as you would use domestic central heating, particularly with a room thermostat, results in them short cycling which is very bad for them. Just use it in bursts, no need for a room stat (set it at max if you have one), and shut it down once it starts short cycling. The (701?) timer unit does a 1 hour burst at the press of a button so, as long as there's a reasonable load on the circuit, it pretty much takes care of that itself.

 

If you do fit one, here's a tip: our timer is located by the bed so it's really handy to press on waking to get up to a toasty boat in winter! It will do a 7 day program, but if you're shift working as a nurse (or retired and get up at random hours) that'd be a faff.

 

Member NMEA knows all these units very well and is very generous with his advice and assistance. If you're going to fit one, he might be a good first point of contact.

 

I'd also second the point about a second source of heating. Solid fuel is the popular choice, and the Eber (or whatever) and a SF stove work well together, with the Eber providing hot water and getting the boat warm whilst the fire reawakens on cold mornings. Comfort wise, the combination is hard to beat, but if either plays you up or you run out of fuel, you have an alternative whilst you get sorted.

[David Mack]

I expect with a 70 ft boat it ll be difficult to heat thoroughly and u may find parts furthest from the stove cooler if you dont plan well . My boats 58 ft and the very back of boat gets cold in deep winter .

So many boats have the stove next to the front doors, so its hardly surprising the heat doesn't always reach the back of the boat. Better to have the stove central.

[chubby]

definately true . Mines at the front and i d rather it wasnt . This is my first boat and u learn as u go along . One lesson learnt for boat two is the stove goes elsewhere and if not it must be capable of having a back boiler plus rads installed . I guess it could be moved but the upheaval and cost combined with a distinct lack of free time to do the work means it ll stay as it is and i ll fit my Taylors heater in November in the back just for the worst of the winter nights .

That said the stove does a good job , but at the back its effects are noticeably less and thats on a 58 foot trad .

Edited October 26, 2016 by chubby

[Sea Dog]

So many boats have the stove next to the front doors, so its hardly surprising the heat doesn't always reach the back of the boat. Better to have the stove central.

As does mine and in an ideal boat it might be more central. However, it does keep most of the boat toasty and, on those rare occasions when the back end is so cold that the electric blanket alone doesn't cut it, running the Eber for a bit uses very little diesel. You'd have to do that a lot to make moving a stove make financial sense.

[damdna]

Personally , i'd be wary of having an eber / webasto as the main form of heating as i think theyre a problem waiting to happen . Thing is if they go wrong then fixing them is either very " involved " , or expensive or both .

If you fix it yourself it takes time ( did for me but im not technically minded) & effort . If someone fixes it youre looking at £60 plus per hour even if u can find someone. If it lets you down in midwinter then thats not good .

To me , & its an opinion only , simple is always best . The less that can go wrong , the less will go wrong .

Don t get me wrong , i think theyre great . I run mine most days for hot water for one hour . I stripped it down 2.5 yrs ago and its been 95% fine since .

BUT

I wouldnt like to rely on it for heating as such .

If you have a diesel tank at the front would it be worth considering a Refleks stove with back boiler ? Far more reliable i d suggest and this will allow usage of the diesel tank u already have .

OR go super simple and have a solid fuel stove again with back boiler . I love a coal fire , theres really nothing as good in depths of winter - very cosy , very comforting but dirtier than a refleks stove .

The solid fuel stove will be cheaper to run but dust is an issue . The Refleks will be cleaner but pricier to run - your call .

 

I think either of these options are better than an eber

 

I expect with a 70 ft boat it ll be difficult to heat thoroughly and u may find parts furthest from the stove cooler if you dont plan well . My boats 58 ft and the very back of boat gets cold in deep winter . Ive bought a seperate Taylors heater for the bedroom but not fitted it yet , just for the very coldest months ( im a southener & gone soft in my mid 40s ) .

Theres many options and a fair bit of planning involved - 70 fts alot to keep warm and so altho i d happily endorse ebers ( mine at least ) id steer clear of having to " rely " on one but for hot water mines great .

 

The Glembring stove is identical to the Refleks stoves - tall, cylindrical, steel and chrome and drip fed from the tank in the foredeck. It's just not heating the boat that well. It's placed pretty centrally in the boat too and has a back boiler with a pump to distribute the water around the piping circuit.

 

I think what's part of the problem is that the pipe carrying the heated water to the rear radiator is tucked under the gunwale and it simply gets cooled by external temperatures before it gets to the rad.

 

As the stove is my only source of heat, and pretty inefficient in a 70 ft boat, I realised I need to change things around. So I figured I'd look at installing a system like Eberspacher and have a solid fuel stove in my lounge. I need to sort this REAL SOON as the rear of the boat stays cold and I want to avoid the common problems of damp and mould.

 

Regarding the noise of Eberspacher (or similar) systems, many on our marina have them installed and the noise is far from nuisance level. You really have to walk close to the boats to even hear it properly.

 

Last winter, I ended up using a small electrical fan heater to warm the stern end of the boat and to make the bathroom a tolerably warm place to wash etc. At a cost of about £8 a day on hook up leccy!!! WHAAAAAT???

 

We have the usual community spirit on the marina and neighbours who know you'll be home from work soon will happily pop round and light your heating so it's snug to get home to. Something I could activate remotely would be awesome!

Edited October 26, 2016 by damdna

[chubby]

ive just googled as ive not seen the glembring heater before . Looks a handsome bit of kit . Is yours big enough for the job - i see there are several sizes ?

Having the pipes behing the cabin linings isn t great as the copper pipes act like a radiator aswell . Thats a shame .

Has it been serviced in recent times ? I doubt there should be a diesel smell in the boat and so this may indicate a fault .

 

Your idea of a stove at the front and a ln eber for heating & hot water is certainly worthwhile . My opinion is that i wouldn t want to RELY on the eber alone .

You could consider fitting a solid fuel stove where the glembring is now or as you say fit a new install towards to front . Its likely to sting a bit in the wallet but that glembring could be sold if no longer needed .

As others too have said , if installed correctly your eber will be fine and along with a solid fuel stove the combination should meet your needs . This is the set up i have on a 58 ft trad and it s good but in the depths of winter my bedroom at the back is cold so im putting in a taylors heater on the rear bulkhead . I still think if at all possible utilsing a back boiler is a worthwhile effort for a 70 ft boat

cheers

Edited October 26, 2016 by chubby

[damdna]

ive just googled as ive not seen the glembring heater before . Looks a handsome bit of kit . Is yours big enough for the job - i see there are several sizes ?

Having the pipes behing the cabin linings isn t great as the copper pipes act like a radiator aswell . Thats a shame .

Has it been serviced in recent times ? I doubt there should be a diesel smell in the boat and so this may indicate a fault .

 

Your idea of a stove at the front and a ln eber for heating & hot water is certainly worthwhile . My opinion is that i wouldn t want to RELY on the eber alone .

You could consider fitting a solid fuel stove where the glembring is now or as you say fit a new install towards to front . Its likely to sting a bit in the wallet but that glembring could be sold if no longer needed .

As others too have said , if installed correctly your eber will be fine and along with a solid fuel stove the combination should meet your needs . This is the set up i have on a 58 ft trad and it s good but in the depths of winter my bedroom at the back is cold so im putting in a taylors heater on the rear bulkhead . I still think if at all possible utilsing a back boiler is a worthwhile effort for a 70 ft boat

cheers

Hey Chubby. I believe my stove is the largest available but it still doesn't do the job. The piping issue sucks a big one because the heat loss from the water is genuinely terminal - that rear rad literally doesn't heat on the coldest of days, so that with the small leccy heater, a really freezing week, of which there may be many, can cost a small fortune!!

 

Lots of replies warn against relying on Eber for heating. Is it really that bad? (edited to change autocorrect beer back to Eber)

Edited October 26, 2016 by damdna

[BlueStringPudding]

 

Lots of replies warn against relying on Eber for heating. Is it really that bad? (edited to change autocorrect beer back to Eber)

For many boaters, yes. Try searching words like "Eberspacher problem" or "Eberspacher unreliable" in this forum or even Google to see what I mean. There are many accounts of repeated and expensive problems with them. If someone already has one installed it's worth doing some work on them but for a new installation I recommend avoid avoid avoid!!!

 

My advice would be to ask for experiences of other brands of diesel fired central heating like Webasto or Hurricane so you can compare the pros and cons of new installations of those instead.

Edited October 26, 2016 by BlueStringPudding

[damdna]

For many boaters, yes. Try searching words like "Eberspacher problem" or "Eberspacher unreliable" in this forum or even Google to see what I mean. There are many accounts of repeated and expensive problems with them. If someone already has one installed it's worth doing some work on them but for a new installation I recommend avoid avoid avoid!!! My advice would be to ask for experiences on other brands of diesel fired central heating like Webasto or Hurricane.

Hello Bluestring. I'm open to ideas - genuinely so. Eberspacher is among a small host of manufacturers and any solution by any of them that gets a my boat heated will be champion. I know of Webasto and I'll google Hurricane.

[Alan de Enfield]

As always there are two sides to the coin - we have had around 20 boats in the last 30 years (I get easily bored), I would guess that out of those, 7 (at least) have had their sole method of heating via an Eberspacher, or Webasto equivalent.

 

This includes 4 Steel NBs and 4 GRP cruisers and includes both 'Blown Air' and 'Hot water' systems.

 

Our current boat has an Eberspacher blown air system as its sole source of heating, and our new boat will be having an Eber (or similar) hot water system fitted next Spring and it will also be the sole method of heating.

 

I agree that it is 'better' to have at least 2 methods of heating, cooking, propulsion, whatever, but sometimes space & / or budgets don't allow.

[BlueStringPudding]

Great. Certainly a solid fuel stove as your main form of heating is probably the best idea (most reliable, easy to maintain and cost effective) and then to back that up with something like diesel fired central heating (which is more expensive to install and to run, requires both fuel and electricity, needs more complex maintaining, may have occasional reliability glitches in the future but when it works well is conveniently hands-off technology so useful for cold mornings and hot showers) is a good way to go

Edited October 26, 2016 by BlueStringPudding

[damdna]

Thanks again, guys/girls (...no idea who is which is what or when...oh sod!)

 

I can see I'm looking at a fair bit of dosh here but I see it as worthwhile if I can live comfortably (read...'warm') on board. I had my boat stripped out years ago and redesigned the interior along with having 8 feet of the front internal accommodation cut away to create the foredeck. This now contains the water tank and the diesel tank (for heating). It's just become clear that the diesel stove itself isn't enough and with the smell (and it's hard to get it serviced...the technicians seem to live in Denmark!!....) it's becoming a bit of a git to tolerate.

[Sea Dog]

Lots of replies warn against relying on Eber for heating. Is it really that bad? (edited to change autocorrect beer back to Eber)

And, for balance, no.

 

There were many posts, there were many issues, lots were badly installed, many were too big for the job, all were running on high sulphur fuel (no longer available), many were used in a way which was asking for trouble (short cycling).

 

Domestic gas fired central heating it's not. However, I'd offer that the right sized model, installed correctly and run with mechanical sympathy is quite likely to do pretty well.

 

Have a search, read a bit, and make your own mind up.

 

 

 

Edited to add: as far as "rely on" is concerned, whatever you chose have an alternative. A system such as the Eberspacher/Webasto or whatever and a solid fuel stove is probably the most popular combination.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Sea Dog

[tizzy]

Whatever you do ,if you are in a marina and want to stay friends with your neighbours don't fit a Mikuni boiler ! My Brother in law has one on his boat which is moored next to ours and when it fires up it sounds like a jet engine !!!! It is so bad we have swapped our moorings round so his exhaust isn't under our bedroom window which has helped a bit.

[damdna]

And, for balance, no.

 

There were many posts, there were many issues, lots were badly installed, many were too big for the job, all were running on high sulphur fuel (no longer available), many were used in a way which was asking for trouble (short cycling).

 

Domestic gas fired central heating it's not. However, I'd offer that the right sized model, installed correctly and run with mechanical sympathy is quite likely to do pretty well.

 

Have a search, read a bit, and make your own mind up.

Thanks, Seadog. That's about right, by the sound of it.

In the event that I install some system in the engine compartment/around the stern of the boat, this will render the foredeck fuel tank redundant. Would anyone be able to venture as to the possibility of incorporating this tank at the bow into a system at the stern? Would diesel-carrying piping be ok over such a distance?

 

And bear with me, folks. I've never ever known anything about the tech aspects of cars or boats!! Just saying...

Edited October 26, 2016 by damdna