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pete harrison

Water Cans and Handbowls

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For anybody interested in acquiring a piece of Ron Hough's paintwork this Dipper looks like pretty good to me, especially as it appears to be unused:

 

edit = I have stopped collecting for now so I will not be bidding.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bargeware-Canalware-Narrowboat-Dipper-decorated-by-Ron-Hough/143223786724?hash=item2158cd8ce4:g:SDUAAOSwCVhcvI7J 

Ebay.jpg.236d465456550329a3a1a6accc8b2e3e.jpg

Edited by pete harrison

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There is a very good handbowl somewhere in the mud on the Henley Reach.  The missus asked for some water, so I reached over the side, forgetting that we were travelling at eight knots.  Took it right out of my hands.

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10 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

There is a very good handbowl somewhere in the mud on the Henley Reach.  The missus asked for some water, so I reached over the side, forgetting that we were travelling at eight knots.  Took it right out of my hands.

I have never lost a Handbowl (or used one to scoop water from the canal / river) but I have lost a couple of Cans over the years.

 

The first was when we were fetching unconverted BADSEY and BARNES back to Birmingham having just bought them in 1988. We were somewhere around Linford when my heavily pregnant wife (now ex-wife) came forward to pass me a cup of tea. Although on cross straps the stern of the unattended butty went under the trees and she could not get back quick enough at the cost of a brand new Phil Speight painted Can.

 

The most recent Can I lost was twelve years ago when I was assisting a charity move their unconverted pair from Stoke Bruerne to Braunston. I was lockwheeling with the pair going up Buckby locks abreast (with the motor on the offside) when from the lockside I heard the crunch of my Cans being crushed under the arch of a bridge, the steerer having taken down the chimney but not moved the Cans (I do not remember having to move Cans going up Buckby). One of my Cans was crushed beyond repair whilst the other remained in service once 'reshaped' with a windlass. The steerer was apologetic but you can imagine my thoughts.

 

The loss I regret the most is a brand new hand operated Klaxon horn, so new I had not had the opportunity to bolt it down. That horn can be found at the top of Knowle locks. The loss that annoyed me the most was when I was running camping boats and my cabin was 'burgled' by the kids I had on board, but I did not find out until they had gone home.

 

Happy days :captain:

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2 hours ago, pete harrison said:

For anybody interested in acquiring a piece of Ron Hough's paintwork this Dipper looks like pretty good to me, especially as it appears to be unused:

 

edit = I have stopped collecting for now so I will not be bidding.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bargeware-Canalware-Narrowboat-Dipper-decorated-by-Ron-Hough/143223786724?hash=item2158cd8ce4:g:SDUAAOSwCVhcvI7J 

Ebay.jpg.236d465456550329a3a1a6accc8b2e3e.jpg

 

That is a very nice bowl, and at it's present price would be a bargain. It isn't very old, probably painted in the last ten years, and would have cost something like £30 then.

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Cut and paste of what I just said on Facebook about this.......

Quote

 

But it's not a dipper is it? - it's a corn bowl. It's "seemingly never used" because it was painted for the modern day tourist market, not an old boating family. Funnily enough I acquired one of those (but in black) many years ago,and it has hung on various walls, and I'm now sat below it on "Flamingo" . I had no idea it was Ron's work until a friend who has had many items painted by Ron over the years stepped on board and saw it, and immediately said "Ron Hough" Very simply painted, not a traditional working boat item, normally, I think, but still a nice item. I'm not paying £45 plus for another though!

I realise I'm taking a risk, I'm now waiting to get shot down and told that they were an item regularly found in working boat cabins.

 

 

21 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

That is a very nice bowl, and at it's present price would be a bargain. It isn't very old, probably painted in the last ten years, and would have cost something like £30 then.

Sticking my neck out again, (!)but the one you identified as Ron Hough's work on Flamingo looks remarkably similar (other than being based on black not green), and it's been in my ownership over 40 years.  My initial thoughts would have been that this one could have been painted as long ago as that, but you know his work far better than I do David.

Edited by alan_fincher

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16 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I realise I'm taking a risk, I'm now waiting to get shot down and told that they were an item regularly found in working boat cabins.

I posted the link to this Dipper more as an opportunity for somebody to acquire a piece of Ron Hough's work in as new condition rather than its historical integrity as a piece of working narrow boat equipment.

 

Whether Dippers were used extensively on narrow boats I very much doubt, but I have found it useful to have one in the engine room for scooping small amounts of water from the canal when cleaning in there :captain:

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12 hours ago, Ray T said:

From the museums at Stoke & Ellesmere.

DSCF2392.JPG

30261212_10155259322632341_8337035883840536576_n.jpg

 

Have they noticed they are missing yet Ray? ??

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12 hours ago, Ray T said:

And Foxton.

 

Foxton March 2011 040.jpg

I'd forgotten quite what an unusual style Mary Matts painted in.

Sorry Mary, but not to me taste at all.

 

It seems a shame (to me at least), that museums can't actually manage to display original authentic items, rather than latter day attempts to replicate the tradition.

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3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

It seems a shame (to me at least), that museums can't actually manage to display original authentic items, rather than latter day attempts to replicate the tradition.

More likely to get nicked?

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Interestingly (to me at least!), someone has said in a parallel discussion on Facebook that " Tom Rolt, Tim Wilkinson and Susan Wolfitt all talk about dippers when they are clearly referring to a handbowl. "

 

This backs up my thoughts that the two were interchangeable terms for the same item, and that item was not what is being offered here on e-Bay.

I feel that whilst these corm bowls now be called dippers, that historically that name was given to the larger hand bowls, and has since been hi-jacked for the smaller item.

Can anybody produce pictures of the corn bowl type of "dipper" actually in use by old working boaters, please?

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2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Interestingly (to me at least!), someone has said in a parallel discussion on Facebook that " Tom Rolt, Tim Wilkinson and Susan Wolfitt all talk about dippers when they are clearly referring to a handbowl. "

 

This backs up my thoughts that the two were interchangeable terms for the same item, and that item was not what is being offered here on e-Bay.

I feel that whilst these corm bowls now be called dippers, that historically that name was given to the larger hand bowls, and has since been hi-jacked for the smaller item.

Can anybody produce pictures of the corn bowl type of "dipper" actually in use by old working boaters, please?

It will be in the same photo which portrays a working boatman sporting a bowler hat and red and white spotted neckerchief!

Edited by David Schweizer

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3 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

all talk about dippers when they are clearly referring to a handbowl. "

  

This backs up my thoughts that the two were interchangeable terms for the same item

A handbowl is a bowl for holding water while you wash, or whatever.

A dipper is for dipping water out of the cut.

Why the confusion?

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4 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

It will be in the same photo which portrays a working boatman sporting a bowler hat and red and white spotted neckerchief!

Found a bowler but not a spotted neckerchief yet.

David Blagrove &  Ron Withey.jpg

 

ETA found a spotted neckerchief. :D

David B dot.JPG

Edited by Ray T

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39 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

A handbowl is a bowl for holding water while you wash, or whatever.

A dipper is for dipping water out of the cut.

Why the confusion?

Because some of us suspect that the feed scoop “dipper” is a modern introduction (in the 60s) and hand bowls just may have been alternatively known as dippers in the 1940s and before.  The literature seems to back this up.  I have an open mind.

Paul

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^^^^^^^

Exactly this!

 

 

1 hour ago, Chris Williams said:

A handbowl is a bowl for holding water while you wash, or whatever.

A dipper is for dipping water out of the cut.

Why the confusion?

Surely a hand bowl was filled by dipping water out of the cut as well, so it is perfectly possible, (which as Paul says as some sources actually suggest), that a dipper was originally just another name for a hand bowl.

 

Either way I'll wager that the dipper for sale here hasn't been dipped in the cut too often, (if at all!).

Edited by alan_fincher

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2 hours ago, Ray T said:

Found a bowler but not a spotted neckerchief yet.

David Blagrove &  Ron Withey.jpg

Ah yes, but wasn't David playing the role of Churchill in the Stoke Bruerne Village at War Festival at the time, hence the bowler?

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58 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Ah yes, but wasn't David playing the role of Churchill in the Stoke Bruerne Village at War Festival at the time, hence the bowler?


No to be pedantic, I don't think David ever played Churchill - at one stage that was Ken Roseblade, but the name of the more recent one's name escapes me.

 

David played "the Man from the Ministry", and came around the boats regularly, asking questions why we were tied up for so long, and not going off to load.  On one occasion he also insisted on trying to get Cath to tell him whether she was pregnant!

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3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Surely a hand bowl was filled by dipping water out of the cut as well, so it is perfectly possible, (which as Paul says as some sources actually suggest), that a dipper was originally just another name for a hand bowl.

I have always thought using a Handbowl to scoop water from the canal is a particularly dirty thing to do. I have only ever used a Handbowl for domestic purposes with water coming from either a Can, the kettle or occasionally a tap. I do not understand how anybody could use the same receptacle for both food preparation and canal water, especially when canal water was considerably more polluted in working days than it is today. In post 302 Chris Williams eludes to how cumbersome a full or even filling Handbowl can be, and I have heard the term Handbowl and Dipper used to describe the same item.

 

I still stand by what I wrote in post 308 "Whether Dippers were used extensively on narrow boats I very much doubt, but I have found it useful to have one in the engine room for scooping small amounts of water from the canal when cleaning in there.".

 

edit = I highlighted the Dipper for sale as an opportunity for somebody to acquire a piece of Ron Hough's work in 'as new' condition and not its historical connection with narrow boats :captain:

 

edit 2 = When I used to help out on 'historic' charity boats I saw the Handbowl used as an overnight chamber pot on several occasions, which is why I always took my own Cans and Handbowl with me.

Edited by pete harrison
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16 hours ago, pete harrison said:

I saw the Handbowl used as an overnight chamber pot

Well, yes - that is the other use for it.  Dam' cold going round to the bucket in the engine 'ole in the middle of the night.

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On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 16:56, pete harrison said:

For anybody interested in acquiring a piece of Ron Hough's paintwork this Dipper looks like pretty good to me, especially as it appears to be unused:

 

edit = I have stopped collecting for now so I will not be bidding.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bargeware-Canalware-Narrowboat-Dipper-decorated-by-Ron-Hough/143223786724?hash=item2158cd8ce4:g:SDUAAOSwCVhcvI7J 

Ebay.jpg.236d465456550329a3a1a6accc8b2e3e.jpg

Sold this afternoon for £107.00 plus £5.50 P&P - but not to me :captain:

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When lead cables were in use in the telecommunications world similar "scoops" were used for melting lead in to "wipe" the cables to lead sleeve of a joint. Also called a p*ss pot. @cuthound should relate to this. :)

 

See the source image
 
I rescued one and it is now my dipper.
 

DSCF5800.jpg

Edited by Ray T
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1 hour ago, pete harrison said:

Sold this afternoon for £107.00 plus £5.50 P&P - but not to me :captain:

I really must take more care of the one hanging on the wall next to me.

 

My son actually managed to knock it out of an pen side hatch on the Coventry, and I assumed that was the end of it.

 

He insisted on magnet fishing, which given it was mid channel, and we didn't know the exact spot it went in, seemed hopeless.

We were telling him we simply had to move on, when he triumphantly pulled it out, mostly unscathed.

 

It was only later it was identified as a Ron Hough painted item, so I'm glad he got his own way.

 

Miraculously whilst looking for the corn bowl, David also pulled out a useable mooring rope (on the magnet!)

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@Ray T

 

Ray I'm genuinely intrigued by the conversations that have kicked off (particularly on Facebook) about what a "Dipper" was in working boatmen days.

 

There seems to be strong documentary evidence the name actually was used interchangeably with Hand Bowl.

 

Can you please ask your working boatmen friend what his memories are on this point, and whether the smaller corn bowl type item as sold here was regularly found in working boats.

(I'll laugh if he says "not if we had to pay £107 for one!")

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