eberspacher engineer

[curlass24]

Hi all,

 

Am new t this forum but my girlfriend and I recently purchased our first narrowboat, but unfortunatel the eberspacher central heating system which hasn't been used since last winter won't turn on.

 

We're currently moored in Uxrbidge and plan on bringing the boat across to east Lonon eventually.

 

Does anyone know of any engineers that could help with this in the Lonon area?

 

Many thanks

 

Malcolm

 

[Joe the plumber]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Stating the obvious, but you could ask Eberspacher who they recommend in your area.

 

I've a feeling if you can be a bit more specific about what's happening, you may well find someone on here can make suggestions

to help you do a bit of fault finding yourself.

[WotEver]

As above...

 

... won't turn on.

 

What happens?

[curlass24]

Am new to using it (but the previosu owener also had issues)

 

basically when you turn it on via the remote it says its on but nothing happens.

 

Have checked the fuses which are fine (the heating hadn't been used for around 8 months though..

 

Any Suggestions would be greatly appreicated!

[WotEver]

Are your batteries fully charged? What's the voltage?

[curlass24]

They're fully charged.

 

The boat has 4 leasure batteries..

 

I'm not sure what the voltage is though

Edited October 3, 2016 by curlass24

[Sea Dog]

They're fully charged.

 

The boat has 4 leasure batteries..

 

I'm not sure what the voltage is though

With respect Curlass, if you're not sure what the voltage is, you probably can't say with any certainty whether the batteries are fully charged.

 

There's many folk here who know their battery and charging system specifications very well and have a smart meter of some kind fitted but still struggle to get their head around the dark art of fully charging batteries! A quick search will find lots of evidence of that, and that's not me knocking them or you, it's a difficult area as the many threads will show.

 

I raise this because low voltage is, as you may now know, one of the most likely causes of problems with an Eberspacher. Not the only one, I hasten to add!

[curlass24]

Thanks, I'll check the voltage this evening.

 

What should it be?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

The problems we've had with our Eberspacher were as a result of the system being air locked so the first thing I'd try is to bleed the system (and radiators).

 

The nearest dealer I can see to you on their website who repairs inland waterway boats is at Shepperton http://www.pushtheboatout.com/

[Sea Dog]

Thanks, I'll check the voltage this evening.

 

What should it be?

Assuming you have the standard 12v system, about 12.6 volts or maybe a little more is usually taken as the resting voltage of a fully charged lead acid battery. AGMs are a bit higher, about 13v. Note the 'resting' part - you'll get wrong figures immediately after charging (high) or when under load (low). The Eberspacher doesn't need the full 12.6, but it does pack in on low voltage and it's easy for such dips to occur particularly when the batteries are under other loads too. An 11.8v figure rings a bell, but I could be wrong - someone may be along with that info as there are folk here who fit and fix these units and know them very well.

 

Eberspacher recommend that their wiring with its in-line fuse is connected directly to the battery (i.e. not through any switches or distribution panel) to reduce volts drop for this reason. If the previous owner has always had trouble, check this is the case.

 

Of course, as I said earlier, this is not the only possible fault, just a common issue. Hope that helps!

[NMEA]

Eberspacher recommend that their wiring with its in-line fuse is connected directly to the battery (i.e. not through any switches or distribution panel) to reduce volts drop for this reason. If the previous owner has always had trouble, check this is the case.

 

It's not to reduce voltage drop, it's to prevent the unit being accidentally subjected to a crash stop from full chat without going through the cool down cycle by total removal of the power. Because the latent heat is not being removed either by the blown air or coolant that can lead to warped and leaking heat exchangers and damaged ECUs. You shouldn't even wire them to the main isolator.

[Sea Dog]

It's not to reduce voltage drop, it's to prevent the unit being accidentally subjected to a crash stop from full chat without going through the cool down cycle by total removal of the power. Because the latent heat is not being removed either by the blown air or coolant that can lead to warped and leaking heat exchangers and damaged ECUs. You shouldn't even wire them to the main isolator.

Interesting, thanks, happy to be corrected. I was aware of the isolator bit, but I believed it was also to minimise joints for voltage drop reasons due to potentially high resistance connections at distribution panels, switches, etc. Still the right wiring advice for the OP though, i.e. direct to the battery with only it's own loom's in-line fuse, check?

 

Is about 11.8V the right figure or is it fuzzier than that on low voltage?

 

Curlass24 - NMEA is one of those folks I referred to who know this kit well.

[matty40s]

I would suggest removing the relay or all the fuses for 30 seconds, then re-installing and trying again.

If your batteries are still low, it still wont work, but this could correct other faults.

 

(Eberbastard owner for 10 years of a 17 year old unit and knows how to keep it going until it was well and truly knackered)- now has a lovely new unit

[NMEA]

Is about 11.8V the right figure or is it fuzzier than that on low voltage?

 

That's about right for a vehicle unit but if the correct marine version is fitted then some still work down to 10.5v but of course that is 10.5v at the ECU and under load not just the battery voltage.

[Arthur Brown]

An older Eber will want to draw in the order of 25A when starting up when cold, This will tax poor or flat batteries or poor installations.

[curlass24]

The problems we've had with our Eberspacher were as a result of the system being air locked so the first thing I'd try is to bleed the system (and radiators).

 

The nearest dealer I can see to you on their website who repairs inland waterway boats is at Shepperton http://www.pushtheboatout.com/

 

Assuming you have the standard 12v system, about 12.6 volts or maybe a little more is usually taken as the resting voltage of a fully charged lead acid battery. AGMs are a bit higher, about 13v. Note the 'resting' part - you'll get wrong figures immediately after charging (high) or when under load (low). The Eberspacher doesn't need the full 12.6, but it does pack in on low voltage and it's easy for such dips to occur particularly when the batteries are under other loads too. An 11.8v figure rings a bell, but I could be wrong - someone may be along with that info as there are folk here who fit and fix these units and know them very well.

 

Eberspacher recommend that their wiring with its in-line fuse is connected directly to the battery (i.e. not through any switches or distribution panel) to reduce volts drop for this reason. If the previous owner has always had trouble, check this is the case.

 

Of course, as I said earlier, this is not the only possible fault, just a common issue. Hope that helps!

Great thanks so much for the advice!

[Arthur Brown]

Eber also suggest running a diesel heater for five minutes every month regardless of the weather, just to keep the fuel in the feed pipe fresh. Clearly this hasn't happened. There is an awfull chance that the fuel in the pipe to the eber has lost some of the volatiles and started to thicken and perhaps gum up. Ebers work well when used regularly but when called on to work immediately after months of no use then they usually misbehave.

 

If you rely on an eber for heat then you NEED to be competent to maintain it and have a suitable set of tools and spares.

[WotEver]

Eber also suggest running a diesel heater for five minutes every month regardless of the weather, just to keep the fuel in the feed pipe fresh. Clearly this hasn't happened. There is an awfull chance that the fuel in the pipe to the eber has lost some of the volatiles and started to thicken and perhaps gum up.

But would that fit in with...

 

basically when you turn it on via the remote it says its on but nothing happens.

??

 

I'd have thought it would try to start, no?

 

Edit to replace a ! with a ?

Edited October 5, 2016 by WotEver

[NMEA]

But would that fit in with...

 

??

 

I'd have thought it would try to start, no?

 

Edit to replace a ! with a ?

Yes you are absolutely right, even if there is no fuel present it will give starting a try until the sequence gets to the stage where the sensors are looking for a flame and none exists, so a couple of minutes of whirring and ticking followed by silence. If t's all silence it means something has happened to make the thing decide not to even try, this is usually a sensor or ECU fault, it could also be in lock out after numerous false starts or not even getting a start signal from the controller, possibly no power to the heater main loom, the controller and main power have separate fused supplies so the controller would still function, though the controller "says" the heater is on it has no way of knowing if there is power to make it go. Really it's a matter of simple diagnostics, start from a basic point and then use the "if then go to" !if not go to" sequence.

Edited October 5, 2016 by NMEA

[MtB]

Am new to using it (but the previosu owener also had issues)

 

basically when you turn it on via the remote it says its on but nothing happens.

 

Have checked the fuses which are fine (the heating hadn't been used for around 8 months though..

 

Any Suggestions would be greatly appreicated!

 

 

Have you tried downloading and reading the manual?

 

Most manuals have a fault tracing section which should help you pin down the fault.

 

Or if not, call the manufacturer. Most give technical fault-finding assistance on the phone.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Yes you are absolutely right, even if there is no fuel present it will give starting a try until the sequence gets to the stage where the sensors are looking for a flame and none exists, so a couple of minutes of whirring and ticking followed by silence. If t's all silence it means something has happened to make the thing decide not to even try, this is usually a sensor or ECU fault, it could also be in lock out after numerous false starts or not even getting a start signal from the controller, possibly no power to the heater main loom, the controller and main power have separate fused supplies so the controller would still function, though the controller "says" the heater is on it has no way of knowing if there is power to make it go. Really it's a matter of simple diagnostics, start from a basic point and then use the "if then go to" !if not go to" sequence.

That suggestion I'm curious about. Our Eberspacher is as temperamental as they come and when it wouldn't work in icy cold weather when we were in Birmingham I was told by the guy there who sells diesel and does boat maintenance that, because I'd tried a number of times it had probably 'locked out' and would need reprogramming. We didn't use the heater again (solid fuel stove came into play) and when we got to Braunston I got someone to look at it there. His view was that it was probably air locked and proceeded to bleed the system. I asked him whether it might have 'locked out' and his opinion was that he'd never heard of one doing that. With his help we got the thing going again and since then it still remains temperamental but I can now tell by the sound of it whether it is going to fire up or not. A continuous hum means that it isn't going to fire up but a wavering hum means that it is (eventually). If I switch on and get the continuous hum I immediately switch off, leave it for 20 seconds and try again. There have been occasions where I've switched it on and off 20 or 30 times and, following the view of the guy in Brauston it has never 'locked out', so the question is do these these units 'lock out'?

[Arthur Brown]

Some ebers most definitely DO lock out with too many false starts. You will I presume have downloaded, read and understood the operating instructions for your particular eber, Sometimes doing the right things the right way makes things work.

 

Good clean fuel and a healthy battery are a good start when working on a reluctant eber. Is it correctly installed, as the instruction book? -it matters.

[NMEA]

If I switch on and get the continuous hum I immediately switch off, leave it for 20 seconds and try again. There have been occasions where I've switched it on and off 20 or 30 times and, following the view of the guy in Brauston it has never 'locked out', so the question is do these these units 'lock out'?

Some models do some don't but you are switching yours off rather than allowing it to recognise a fault and shut down using a fault recognition counter on the way to a safety lock out, so even if your model was one of the type that does lock out it would not. There really is no such thing as temperamental heater, only a poorly installed and or poorly maintained one, give them volts, decent fuel, and keep the chamber and glow pin or plug free of excess carbon and they will start. All other symptoms should be properly diagnosed and rectified just like your engine, but what would I know, it's not as though I'm factory trained and take refresher courses, have service bulletins sent to me every week and work on the things every day is it? If you download the manual (or ask me for one) you will know for sure if your model has lock out or not.

Edited October 6, 2016 by NMEA

[Sea Dog]

[quote name="NMEA" post="1894619" timestamp="147573491

There really is no such thing as temperamental heater, only a poorly installed and or poorly maintained one...

 

We'll said, Sir; the nail on the head!

 

I'd probably add 'faulty' and 'misused' to your list, which then also applies to virtually any equipment or system. One may add 'poorly designed' but, in the case of the Eberspacher and it's ilk, I think misuse is probably more correct. Of course, where the cost or disruption involved in correcting it is prohibitive, sometimes manageable temperamentality is worth living with. Doesn't make it right though, does it, and total failure is then likely at some (inconvenient) time in the future.