Liverpool Boat Company

[blackrose]

As someone just trying to get a feel for the market (and thinking of buying second hand).....

If LBC are at the bottom/budget end of the market, what names are in the middle and high end.

 

Also, from the hull perspective what tends to be the differentiator between low end and high end?

Materials?, Build quality - alignment, welds, rivetting etc? Design and lines of the boat?

 

Will a LBC type hull tend to last less well? corrode quicker etc?

 

If I'm looking at second hand boats what are the good name hulls I should be looking out for (or who to avoid).

 

Sorry for what are probably really obvious questions but as a complete newcomer there's no point trying to bluff my way arond that I know this stuff.

 

Thanks

Derek

 

I wouldn't say LBC are at the bottom end of the hull market but they are good value for what you pay. The the steel is of the correct grade, the welding is good, the sides are straight, and they'll last as long as any other peice of steel that's left in the water as long as it's treated properly. On a new LB hull you're well advised to get it out of the water within the first year for reblacking, because their paint jobs (both above & below the waterline) aren't great.

 

If you take LB hulls as a benchmark then there are hulls from some more prestigious builders with more traditional designs & decorative steelwork which will give a more individual feel. At the other end of the spectrum there are low quality hulls from other builders with wonky sides, dodgy welding and possibly made from the wrong grade of steel.

 

Take a look around. Ask owners on the canals and rivers who their builder was & visit some builders too. Then youll become more familiar with good & not so good steelwork.

 

I did a lot of reserch before I bought mine. Without going into a 2 year monologue, just one word, Colecraft.

 

A neighbour of mine has a new fully fitted Colecraft. I can't really see that there's much difference between the quality of his steelwork and mine, although I do like his interior joinery, especially the solid ok beams that they've put across his ceiling.

Edited May 12, 2007 by blackrose

[Neil.A]

A neighbour of mine has a new fully fitted Colecraft. I can't really see that there's much difference between the quality of his steelwork and mine, although I do like his interior joinery, especially the solid ok beams that they've put across his ceiling.

 

I bought the hull only and had it fitted out at Shardlow.

[Timleech]

On a new LB hull you're well advised to get it out of the water within the first year for reblacking, because their paint jobs (both above & below the waterline) aren't great.

 

There are a good many other builders who skimp on the hull painting.

I reckon anyone with a new hull, unless they *know* it's been properly prepared & painted, would be well advised to have it repainted after 12 months.

 

Tim

[gary4lw]

Well I have for one and here it is:

 

Brilliant a fag packet engineer,sad to think they will all disappear when smokings banned all together

 

I bought the hull only and had it fitted out at Shardlow.

Would that be Dobsons or Shardlow Marina

[Neil.A]

Brilliant a fag packet engineer,sad to think they will all disappear when smokings banned all together

Would that be Dobsons or Shardlow Marina

Dobsons

Dean did the wood and Dave did the techie bits.

I'm a qualified electrician, so i know good workmanship when I see it.

 

Why the question

[gary4lw]

Dobsons

Dean did the wood and Dave did the techie bits.

I'm a qualified electrician, so i know good workmanship when I see it.

 

Why the question

Thinking of having our new one fitted out there,popped in to see them and like the look of their work: Gary

[Neil.A]

Thinking of having our new one fitted out there,popped in to see them and like the look of their work: Gary

 

Gary, If you need any more info pm me and I'll give you my number.

Neil

[NoFixedAbode]

Whats the opinions on Brayzel narrow boats near Garstang Lancashire.

 

Hi Buccaneer,

 

I see a lot of Brayzel boats and think they seem to be fairly well fitted out, but quite basic designs. They seem to use piper shells mainly unless you request otherwise, but they sure as hell aint cheap !

[lymmranger]

I was more than happy with my LBC shell..........

 

My Father is a highly qualified engineer and is also happy......

 

BUT if you want fiddly bits go elsewhere!

 

Mine is imacculately put together........

 

Several close neighbours were less fortunate. Usually rougher welds!

 

This however is not a phenomona unique cto LBC and of late ALL the shells I have seen them deliver have been spot on.

 

I would agree on the comments re paintwork though, I redid mine from bare metal up. A neighbour who did not has suffered with persistant rust........

 

Their primer doesnt always bond too well (But I believe this is again a "fixed" issue and no longer applicable)

 

In essence, unless you are "loaded" or a "snob" they are able to offer fantastic value.

 

After all there is no such thing as a "traditional boat" anymore and at canal speeds the LBC shell is just as capable as all the others

 

Lets use a "motoring" analagy, most of us drive ordinary family cars (mondeo/vectra) - ie a LBC!

Do we compare these to a RollsRoyce ??????????????????

[drunkensailor]

I own a 1981 LBC cruiser stern.

I think she's very well made, needed a bit of replating in 2005, and a few other jobs but I think that's reasonable for any 20+ year old boat.

All 3 of the people I know who have bought new LBC boats have been quite pleased, but two had leaky windows and one has had a few little jobs needed doing under guarantee, but LBC has sorted them quite quickly so it has not been a problem. Little teething troubles, I think are again reasonable, you'd get the same if you bought a new car.

Of course, I've seen lots of boats that are in a different league to them in terms of quality, but then the price reflects this. So you pays your money, you gets your choice.

[David Schweizer]

I own a 1981 LBC cruiser stern.

I think she's very well made, needed a bit of replating in 2005, and a few other jobs but I think that's reasonable for any 20+ year old boat.

All 3 of the people I know who have bought new LBC boats have been quite pleased, but two had leaky windows and one has had a few little jobs needed doing under guarantee, but LBC has sorted them quite quickly so it has not been a problem. Little teething troubles, I think are again reasonable, you'd get the same if you bought a new car.

Of course, I've seen lots of boats that are in a different league to them in terms of quality, but then the price reflects this. So you pays your money, you gets your choice.

My boat is 25 years old, and I would be mortified if I had to have overplating done at such a young age. I think your last sentence says it all, my boat cost £20,000 in 1981 how much was a Liverpool boat then?

[drunkensailor]

My boat is 25 years old, and I would be mortified if I had to have overplating done at such a young age. I think your last sentence says it all, my boat cost £20,000 in 1981 how much was a Liverpool boat then?

I think you're asking a lot of any 25 year old steel object that spends all of its time underwater to survive without decent maintenance. I suspect the bloke who owned my boat before me was a total idiot when it came to all of that judging by his (mercifully few)repairs. The one that springs to mind is the cold tap being held on with masking tape.

Any boat will need maintenance, dare I say even yours.

The fact that a lot of these "cheap" boats from companies such as Springer and LBC are still giving out faithful service 2 or 3 decades after they were built proves they're not nearly as bad as some people would have you think they are.

[Trafalgar Marine]

I would agree on the comments re paintwork though, I redid mine from bare metal up. A neighbour who did not has suffered with persistant rust........

 

Their primer doesnt always bond too well (But I believe this is again a "fixed" issue and no longer applicable)

 

In essence, unless you are "loaded" or a "snob" they are able to offer fantastic value.

 

After all there is no such thing as a "traditional boat" anymore and at canal speeds the LBC shell is just as capable as all the others

 

Lets use a "motoring" analagy, most of us drive ordinary family cars (mondeo/vectra) - ie a LBC!

Do we compare these to a RollsRoyce ??????????????????

My brother is down there most weeks and I know for a fact they have changed paint suppliers to international.

They have also moved more of the operation to TOWNSEND street and are building less boats to improve standards.

 

It's right about getting what you pay for though. You never know might be asking for a new day boat shell (one day). If I was in the market for a live-aboard though I would probably go for a more prestigious builder/fitter.

 

mondeo and vectra are good comparisons.

[blackrose]

My boat is 25 years old, and I would be mortified if I had to have overplating done at such a young age. I think your last sentence says it all, my boat cost £20,000 in 1981 how much was a Liverpool boat then?

 

I'm afraid it doesn't say it all, it's not that simple. I don't think you can take one example and use this to extrapolate into some hard & fast rule on how long it should be before a hull needs overplating.

 

Given the correct grade of steel used, hull wear & corrosion depends very much on a whole host of other variables: how thick the the hull was to start with, how it was treated and how often, how much it has been used, scraped, where it was moored and if there were stray currents present, whether enough anodes were attached, if a landline was connected and for how long, and if so whether any form of isolation was installed.

 

Liverpool Boats use 43A grade steel for their boats, the same as most reputable builders, so given the same hull thickness there is no reason their hulls should need overplating any earlier if they are used and maintained in exactly the same way.

 

Also, a steel hull is subject to wear and corrosion irrespective of the original cost.

Edited May 14, 2007 by blackrose

[cyclic]

I wouldn't say LBC are at the bottom end of the hull market but they are good value for what you pay. The the steel is of the correct grade, the welding is good, the sides are straight, and they'll last as long as any other peice of steel that's left in the water as long as it's treated properly. On a new LB hull you're well advised to get it out of the water within the first year for reblacking, because their paint jobs (both above & below the waterline) aren't great.

 

I bought my 2000 build, fully fitted, LBC nb last year. The previous owners were enthusiastic, but not necessarily competent in their maintainance efforts, but even so the topside paintwork will last for another year.

The blacking was Comastic, ex factory, and I had that re-done last month. The survey showed the plating (10-6-5-4)to be better than average, and I know that she has been hooked up to a shoreline for a few years, so I replaced the Anodes all round, which were a bit sad at the bow, but other than that, it was what I budgeted for, and no worse than I expected.

 

I'd say that for the money, I got what I paid for, and have no complaints, other than picky detail

[NoFixedAbode]

Sorry folks,

 

I have to defend myself here, I originally posted because somebody asked for opinions about liverpool boats and I didn't want to be in a position in future where somebody could say "you could have warned me but you didn't" so I posted a breif note implying that I was unhappy with them whilst at the same time trying not to upset jon by slagging of the a company on the forum. I sent personal mails to those people who were interested in my experiences, since then I watched this thread and read several posts by various people who if they are not on commision should be.

 

I was more than happy with my LBC shell..........

 

Good I never said they were all crap !

 

My Father is a highly qualified engineer

 

so am I.

 

and is also happy......

 

Good

 

BUT if you want fiddly bits go elsewhere!

 

I dont, I just want the right pieces, the right shape, in the right place and welded together properly.

 

Mine is imacculately put together........

 

Good

 

Several close neighbours were less fortunate. Usually rougher welds!

 

This however is not a phenomona unique cto LBC and of late ALL the shells I have seen them deliver have been spot on.

 

I would agree on the comments re paintwork though, I redid mine from bare metal up. A neighbour who did not has suffered with persistant rust........

 

Their primer doesnt always bond too well (But I believe this is again a "fixed" issue and no longer applicable)

 

In essence, unless you are "loaded" or a "snob"

 

I am neither, If I was loaded I would have done as I was advised to do by a liverpool boats employee and hired a solicitor.

 

they are able to offer fantastic value.

 

I thought so too thats why I ordered one.

 

After all there is no such thing as a "traditional boat" anymore and at canal speeds the LBC shell is just as capable as all the others

Lets use a "motoring" analagy, most of us drive ordinary family cars (mondeo/vectra) - ie a LBC!

Do we compare these to a RollsRoyce ??????????????????

 

No, but to continue your motoring analogy, how would you feel if you ordered and paid for a mondeo but recieved a 1970's monday morning british leyland allegro (complete with square steering wheel!) ?

 

After examining my shell I was advised by a number of people (including one marine surveyor) to contact trading standards, but in the end I didn't bother, people like me dont win against big companies like that, they can afford all the lawyers. I decided to live with what I have got, after all it is partly my own fault for being stupid enough to pay for something I hadn't even seen finished.

I have fixed what I can and will live with the rest by re-designing things to fit.

[WJM]

I have a LBC shelled boat and it is great - no problems - love it. I am new to narrowboats and bought this one second-hand last year. I almost ordered a +£100k bespoke at Crick last year and I am so glad I didnt. After a year with this boat (and some serious mileage) my ideas on what I want in a boat have changed totally. Had I gone bespoke and expensive I would be feeling very stupid now, saddled with the wrong boat that cost a fortune and wont sell easily. One day I might get around to having a masterpiece created but for now my LBC gives me an easy in-easy out narrowboat experience.

[Gary Peacock]

Don't you think this would be just best left at they build good boats at a good price and don't pretend to be the builders of bespoke top of the line hulls or fit outs.

 

I think that just about somes it up.

 

Any builder is only as good as the last hull they built and everyone will have the occasional one that in all honesty isn't their best, the more they produce the more the chances of things slipping occasionally but by using your own common sense or a surveyor any reputable builder will correct any problems prior to delivery. (Or you simply refuse to take delivery.)

 

Do not judge any builder by what they built 10 years ago or last year, go look at the last boat they built! (This is a pearl of wisdom worth remembering! )

[blackrose]

Sorry folks,

 

I have to defend myself here, I originally posted because somebody asked for opinions about liverpool boats and I didn't want to be in a position in future where somebody could say "you could have warned me but you didn't" so I posted a breif note implying that I was unhappy with them whilst at the same time trying not to upset jon by slagging of the a company on the forum. I sent personal mails to those people who were interested in my experiences, since then I watched this thread and read several posts by various people who if they are not on commision should be.

 

There's really no need be defensive.

 

I can't see any posts on this thread which have tried to contradict your personal negative experiences with LBC, and while we can appreciate that you might feel bitter, perhaps you should also try to respect the positive experiences of others.

Edited May 15, 2007 by blackrose

[John Orentas]

Sorry folks,

 

I have to defend myself here, I originally posted because somebody asked for opinions about liverpool boats and I didn't want to be in a position in future where somebody could say "you could have warned me but you didn't" so I posted a breif note implying that I was unhappy with them whilst at the same time trying not to upset jon by slagging of the a company on the forum. I sent personal mails to those people who were interested in my experiences, since then I watched this thread and read several posts by various people who if they are not on commision should be.

After examining my shell I was advised by a number of people (including one marine surveyor) to contact trading standards, but in the end I didn't bother, people like me dont win against big companies like that, they can afford all the lawyers. I decided to live with what I have got, after all it is partly my own fault for being stupid enough to pay for something I hadn't even seen finished.

I have fixed what I can and will live with the rest by re-designing things to fit.

 

 

Hi Mark.

 

I would say that you have every need to defend yourself, but not by innuendo, this is an open forum if there was something wrong with the boat you bought you should have said so in matter of fact way. All this skulking about telling us that you have PM'd people advising them not to buy a certain type of boat, "but I won't go into detail because I don't want to cause any trouble", (I paraphrase). To me this is cowardly rubbish and it is the most damaging form of libel and by far the most difficult to defend against.

 

A bit like saying I won't leave my cousin alone with my daughter but I won't say why because I don't want to cause any trouble.

 

I say that you should either go to litigation against your builder or shut up. You might find yourself in court whether you like it or not.

[tomsk]

Hi Mark.

 

I would say that you have every need to defend yourself, but not by innuendo, this is an open forum if there was something wrong with the boat you bought you should have said so in matter of fact way. All this skulking about telling us that you have PM'd people advising them not to buy a certain type of boat, "but I won't go into detail because I don't want to cause any trouble", (I paraphrase). To me this is cowardly rubbish and it is the most damaging form of libel and by far the most difficult to defend against.

 

A bit like saying I won't leave my cousin alone with my daughter but I won't say why because I don't want to cause any trouble.

 

I say that you should either go to litigation against your builder or shut up. You might find yourself in court whether you like it or not.

 

Sound advice from the bearded 'Arbiter of Truth', saucers of milk all round

[lymmranger]

I must be getting old........

 

It used to be me jumping down everyones throat.........

 

I thought my comments were balanced???????????

 

(for once )

 

[Chertsey]

Hi Mark.

 

I would say that you have every need to defend yourself, but not by innuendo, this is an open forum if there was something wrong with the boat you bought you should have said so in matter of fact way. All this skulking about telling us that you have PM'd people advising them not to buy a certain type of boat, "but I won't go into detail because I don't want to cause any trouble", (I paraphrase). To me this is cowardly rubbish and it is the most damaging form of libel and by far the most difficult to defend against.

 

A bit like saying I won't leave my cousin alone with my daughter but I won't say why because I don't want to cause any trouble.

 

I say that you should either go to litigation against your builder or shut up. You might find yourself in court whether you like it or not.

 

I think this is rather harsh of John. It's in the nature of a forum like this that people DON'T want to go public with negative comments precisely because of the fear of ending up in court for libel - which is why forum owners/mods are also inclined to put a stop to it. It means that whenever somebody asks a straightforward question like 'are x's boats any good' people with positive experiences will happily make them public but people with negative experiences will prefer to say so privately. So unless you read between the lines you are bound to get an unbalanced picture. The person who asked the original question may get the full spectrum of opinions and experiences because they get the PMs, but the other readers will only see the positive side. Nothing you can do about it, just be aware of it. Sometimes people will do their best to tread that fine line with the best of intentions to warn others (as they see fit) without potentially getting themselves or the forum into trouble, and sometimes they won't succeed.

[anthony]

I often wonder why people really think Liverpool Boats are cheap.

There are other firms that supply boats of similar cost.

A 55ft sailaway nowdays is typically 24 grand give or take a bit so take your pick.

 

In Johns defence he has liverpool boat and its a nice boat.

Edited May 15, 2007 by anthony

[Jus73]

Thinking of having our new one fitted out there,popped in to see them and like the look of their work: Gary

 

If you're in the area you may wish to consider Kingfisher Narrowboats who I've used to do some of the Joinery work on both of our hire boats, H2O & H3O. Their main work is producing 2-3 fully fitted boats a year on Piper Shells. Their very friendly and knowledgeable with a superb standard of workmanship.

 

An example of their work can be seen here

 

Cheers

 

Just