Paraffin Cabin Heating

[FORTUNATA]

I need a heating system for a 24 foot GRP. I am a bit wary of a wood burner espcially as a GRP roof isn't like steel and also the paint gets messed up. There is a paraffin range of boat heaters but don't know if they're legal inland. The diesel ones tend to be quite expensive. Some sailors have stated the paraffin heater system is easy to install but to be careful of carbon monoxide and to have an alarm.

[Paul C]

Link?

[Paul C]

ETA: do you have a link to the particular paraffin heater you're considering. There are a wide number of paraffin heaters, some of which are safe and some which aren't.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Parafin when it burns gives off fumes and water so it must be vented to the outside.

[FORTUNATA]

Not at this stage as my phone can't copy and paste. The one the sailors were using has a battery and dial. It has an exhaust too. I think woodburners are best but location is tricky (without breaking out fixtures). The main problem there too would be cinders and debris on the roof.All I know about paraffin is what I googled but price of the heating system is a factor and cost of the fuel. Gas I've never really liked. Diesel seems pretty costly to set up.

[Gordon Munk]

Taylor's diesel or paraffin. Mutt's danglies, very easy to install and run, self contained. I prefer the diesel as the paraffin is pressurised. Totally suitable for GRP.

[Guest]

I need a heating system for a 24 foot GRP. I am a bit wary of a wood burner espcially as a GRP roof isn't like steel and also the paint gets messed up. There is a paraffin range of boat heaters but don't know if they're legal inland. The diesel ones tend to be quite expensive. Some sailors have stated the paraffin heater system is easy to install but to be careful of carbon monoxide and to have an alarm.

I seem to recall that you always have shore power? I suspect a small electric fan heater would soon warm a 24 ft boat up. Dry heat from electricity, next to zero installation cost will pay for a fair bit of leccy. Some fan heaters have a room thermostat built in, but if not you could easily install one.

I have known people heat small caravans this way successfully.

A lot would depend on what price you pay per unit of course.

[Alan de Enfield]

One litre of Parrafin produces one litre of water.

 

With a paraffin heater you will always be damp, damp makes you feel cooler so you have the heater on more, to get warm , generate more water vapour. and around and round it goes.

 

When 1st married we lived in an old static caravan with parrafin heaters - within a matter of weeks our clothes (in the wardrobe) where covered in white and green mould.

 

If you use paraffin then you either need to vent it outside, or run a dehumidifier 24/7

[Jrtm]

Ive been using pretty much only paraffin heating and cooking from day 1 of being on boats save for 2 months of using gas till this day. Paraffin is grait till you a need it in a hurry or be get it too hot. Its not flamable untill hot or pressurised but can be far far fumier than diesel or other heaters.

I have used portable and a fixed paraffin stuff and portable is what i would use every time. You can even get little heaters that will happly cook on or heat a kettle while heating up. My heater one warms up the a back cabin in around 10 mins in cold weather and will have the kettle hot in 5-10 by time ive woken up the kettle is hot and i then am warm enough to be assed to lite the stove.

Edited September 15, 2016 by billybobbooth

[Arthur Brown]

Kerosene is harder to find in my experience, it can also be more expensive. ONLY if you can find a good, close and cheap supply is kerosene worth the bother.

 

Diesel is available on the cut duty free for heating, it's also available at every automotive fuel stop at full DERV price.

 

 

The moisture that really does come from stoves comes from the burning fuel, if it gets into the living space then the fumes are getting into the living space too, the fumes KILL.

 

ANY fuel burned for heat makes moisture and some carbon monoxide, you must ensure that the exhaust is correctly and completely vented to outside, whatever the stove and fuel.

 

Be certain that you can supply the electricity that your stove may need, An Eber may take up to 25a for a minute on start up.

[MtB]

All I know about paraffin is what I googled but price of the heating system is a factor and cost of the fuel. Gas I've never really liked. Diesel seems pretty costly to set up.

 

 

Paraffin is typically about £8 a litre when sold in coal merchants, so its the most expensive of all the fuels to heat yer boat with.

[Chertsey]

One litre of Parrafin produces one litre of water.

 

Is that physically (chemically) possible?

 

We have a portable paraffin heater which we use (carefully) in the hold, and I haven't noticed excess condensation, though I can't say we've done a scientific test. I prefer it to gas because it's completely worry free when not in use. Not much of a comparison with a fitted system though. Paraffin is hard tio get hold of cheaply; Turners at Wheaton Aston used to work out about half the price of buying it in 4l containers. I remember being told that no paraffin is produced in Britain now but all has to come from Germany. We used to cook with it too but that was hard work, and we have now discovered ethanol!

[FORTUNATA]

The consensus seems to be paraffin isn't so fantastic due to the scarceness of the fuel and the fumes. Catweasel is correct electric is available here but past experience tells me Winter can really kick in. If your roof is covered in snow you may need serious heat. How much are diesel systems? What about oil heaters or white spirit Norwegian heaters? Or could I use coal and a custom made pot-belly? As Catweasal said electric helps but I need severe weather back up.

[Alan de Enfield]

Is that physically (chemically) possible?

 

 

 

It is a well known fact (within the building / housing industry) here is an extract from the 1st hit on google

 

Conditions for condensation

In Britain, condensation in houses is mainly a winter problem particularly where warm moist air is generated in living areas and then spreads to the colder parts of the building.

The moisture in the air comes from a number of sources within the house. Water vapour is produced in relatively large quantities from normal day to day activities. A five person household puts about 10 kg of water into the air every day – that’s over two gallons. Here’s how:

• breathing (asleep) 0.3 kg

• breathing (awake) 0.85 kg

• cooking 3 kg

• personal washing 1.0 kg

• washing and drying clothes 5.5 kg

• heating - especially paraffin and flueless gas heaters.

 

For every litre of paraffin burnt over one litre of moisture vaporises into air. Every carbon fuel produces some amount of water from combustion. (1 kg of water equates to about 1 litre)

 

 

From :

https://www.coastlinehousing.co.uk/sites/default/files/.../Condensation%20Leaflet.pdf

Using 'non-flued' gas appliances such as a 'super-ser' also produces 1 litre of water per 1 litre of gas burnt which is 'vented' into the room.

 

The unfortunate thing is that it is generally the 'poorer' in society who have to rely on this type of heating in their homes.

[Paul C]

Is that physically (chemically) possible?

 

We have a portable paraffin heater which we use (carefully) in the hold, and I haven't noticed excess condensation, though I can't say we've done a scientific test. I prefer it to gas because it's completely worry free when not in use. Not much of a comparison with a fitted system though. Paraffin is hard tio get hold of cheaply; Turners at Wheaton Aston used to work out about half the price of buying it in 4l containers. I remember being told that no paraffin is produced in Britain now but all has to come from Germany. We used to cook with it too but that was hard work, and we have now discovered ethanol!

 

Shamelessly copied and pasted:

 

 

CxHy + (x+ 1/4 y) O2 ---> xCO2 + 1/2 yH2O

 

if this happens to give fractional coefficients

then multiply all by the lowest common denominator

 

(From https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121002124117AA5zRzq)

 

Now, paraffin (aka kerosine) has typically 6-16 carbon atoms (ie x= 6 to x=16). If it were all alkane C_nH_(2n+2), then that's C₆H₁₄ to C₁₆H₃₄. So its far worse, actually around 12l of water vapour is produced per litre of paraffin burnt.

[Texasboater]

How about charcoal?

 

 

http://www.hampshireheaters.co.uk/

[Chertsey]

OK, I believe you, but can someone explain it in English for someone with a Grade C O Level in Chemistry from 1981?

 

The paraffin is some sort of (complex?) hydrocarbon and bits of it are grabbing loads of oxygen from the air to combine with its hydrogen to make lots of water and bits of its carbon are grabbing more oxygen to make presumably carbon dioxide and/or carbon monoxide, plus depositing more carbon everywhere as soot, and these reactions produce heat... Is that what the equation means?

Edited September 15, 2016 by Chertsey

[FORTUNATA]

A possibility. The price hit me though like a ten ton truck. 800 quid is a pretty big spend for us skinflints.

[magnetman]

I spent a slightly unconfortable winter living in a 24ft grp motorsailer off grid about 10 years ago. I put a Davey Hotpot in there. Nice little stove but a pita to keep it in.

 

I think if I were doing it again I would go for a small Refleks or Taylors diesel stove. There was a LPG unit called Cosy Cabin which is interesting (a flued gas heater) but overall when availability and overall safety is factored in I think diesel is probably the way to go.

 

There are some very nice little diesel stoves on eBay now and then. Another one us Glembring and another one is Sigmar.

 

There was a nice charcoal burner called the Pansy but not sure whether charcoal is available for sensible money.

 

Just for information the Taylors and similar paraffin burners have flues so they are not likely to generate moisture in the cabin.

 

Paraffin/kerosene is expensive in small quantities but can be very cheap in bulk but then you have to think about storage.

[Paul C]

OK, I believe you, but can someone explain it in English for someone with a Grade C O Level in Chemistry from 1981?

 

The paraffin is some sort of (complex?) hydrocarbon and bits of it are grabbing loads of oxygen from the air to combine with its hydrogen to make lots of water and bits of its carbon are grabbing more oxygen to make presumably carbon dioxide and/or carbon monoxide, plus depositing more carbon everywhere as soot, and these reactions produce heat... Is that what the equation means?

 

 

1. Everything (in organic chemistry) burns to make carbon dioxide and water (CO₂ and H₂O)

2. All the C atoms end up on carbon dioxide; all the H atoms end up on the water.

3. Paraffin has loads of C atoms on each blob of it, and even more H atoms per blob

4. Because of 3, loads of water is produced per quantity of paraffin

 

(I know there's a ton of assumptions in there - the assumptions are applicable here).

[Texasboater]

This one is a bit better than 800 quid!

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/331958120965?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

[magnetman]

Yes the Pansy is a nice unit.

 

I have always wondered whether it is actually possible to buy charcoal at a sensible price per kg during the winter. Have never looked into it properly so perhaps it is but I seem to think that it would not stand up against coal or diesel as a cost effective full time heating.

 

This assumes the use would be full time which I don't think has been mentioned unless I missed it.

Edited September 15, 2016 by magnetman

[Tacet]

 

 

Paraffin is typically about £8 a litre when sold in coal merchants, so its the most expensive of all the fuels to heat yer boat with.

 

Currently about £1.75 per litre from B&Q and rather less elsewhere, if you can be bothered.

[magnetman]

 

Currently about £1.75 per litre from B&Q and rather less elsewhere, if you can be bothered.

About twice the price of diesel. Definitely a lot cheaper if you can store a lot of it. unlikely on a 24ft GRP cruiser but you never know.

 

I think MtB probably meant £8 for the more commonly sold 4 litre prepacked paraffin usually found in garden centres and diy outlets.

 

£8 a litre does sound extremely extreme

 

 

When I was a lad the local hardware sold "pink paraffin" you had to bring your own can and they filled it up. This was in the 80s.

 

I expect elfin safety has seen them off.

[Chertsey]

 

When I was a lad the local hardware sold "pink paraffin" you had to bring your own can and they filled it up. This was in the 80s.

 

I expect elfin safety has seen them off.

I suspect more likely lack of demand has killed it off. Turners still sold it as of last year. I was a big fan, until I discovered easier, less sooty alternatives.