BW to Auction Moorings

[anhar]

They've been giving better public services since 1789 and still do. How long do they need to go on for to prove you wrong?

However any kudos the French may have earned since 1789 is destroyed by the fact that since 1789 and probably for long before the revolution too, their women in general don't shave their legs or armpits, though smart Parisan ladies now mostly do. I'd rather have rough public services and smooth women Carl.

 

And before you suspect that I'm being too serious, perhaps I should add that I am taking the french.

 

regards

Steve

Edited May 31, 2007 by anhar

[blackrose]

maybe I did not express myself correctly.

 

the French national debt is one of the highest in Europe and raising, this was (rightly) one of the focuses of the recent presidential election. They may have some of the best services, but they cant afford them.

 

This is not sustainable.

 

You may be right, but by the same token is an economically disparate and socially fragmented society sustainable?

 

I wasn't proposing we adopt the French system, I'm just arguing for a bit more balance.

Edited May 31, 2007 by blackrose

[carlt]

maybe I did not express myself correctly.

 

the French national debt is one of the highest in Europe and raising, this was (rightly) one of the focuses of the recent presidential election. They may have some of the best services, but they cant afford them.

 

This is not sustainable.

Maybe they should switch to the American system, no public services and an even bigger national debt.

 

Aside from that, if the figures weren't being massaged by Mr.Brown so effectively (a little trick he picked up from the real Tories), our National Debt would exceed France's.

 

Give me their debt, their public services, their far more transparent political system and their better and cheaper waterways system over ours any day.

Edited June 1, 2007 by carlt

[Djuwenda]

Maybe they should switch to the American system, no public services and an even bigger national debt.

 

Aside from that, if the figures weren't being massaged by Mr.Brown so effectively (a little trick he picked up from the real Tories), our National Debt would exceed France's.

 

Give me their debt, their public services, their far more transparent political system and their better and cheaper waterways system over ours any day.

 

 

you are assuming the French govt does not "massage" their figures?

 

actually I think you are making a lot of assumptions, I could of course be wrong.

The public services are very good, granted. But I am sure you will agree this no good if you cant fund it? I think you could compare that to somebody who lives above their means, relying on credit.

 

The French politcal system may look more transparent, but it suffers the same problems as the british one. I feel there is even more corruption in France.

 

waterways... the french waterway community does not seem anywhere as large and vibrant as the British one. Granted they have big canals, but growing up there as a kid in the countryside, I never met anybody who lived on the local navigable river, which is well maintained and useable by crafts.

 

And then there all the issues you dont mention: Racism is more present than here, social problems and ghettoes (remember the cars burning last christmas?) the very slow economic growth, high unemployement, bleak employement prospects for young people (ever wondered why there are so many young French people in London?)

 

France is also

-quite poor at manufacturing goods (except for luxury goods),

-very good at coming to standstill when public sector workers decide they are not happy with their lot

-very heavy on taxes- indeed a lot of French see the UK as a tax Haven!

-very stuck on its own ways and often struggling to move on-

-not a good place to be an entrepreneur

 

 

I could go on for quite a bit, but I suppose you see where I am going.

 

 

the grass is not always greener....

[Neil.A]

Sorry if its already been done, but it might help if we all signed this

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/moorings/

 

Neil

[mayalld]

Sorry if its already been done, but it might help if we all signed this

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/moorings/

 

Neil

 

What on earth makes you think that?

 

You surely don't imagine that signing a petition is going to make the slightest difference.

[Hekaterine]

It is incorrect to say there is no competition in the moorings market - there are lots of non-BW marinas, in fact they outnumber the BW marinas.

 

Yeees, but aren't we specifically talking about towpath moorings here? I'd argue that the 'market' for towpath moorings may be different than that for marina moorings i.e. people are looking for different things from each.

 

Also, the canals are run by British Waterways (a government department - correct me if I'm wrong) whereas BW marinas are run by BW Marinas Ltd. It may be an arm's length company but its duty to its users is different IMHO i.e. BW have a responsibility to all users of the waterways, and that they are sustainable, and able to be used, cycled along, fished in, boated on etc whereas BWML run marinas.

[Neil.A]

What on earth makes you think that?

 

You surely don't imagine that signing a petition is going to make the slightest difference.

 

It may well not, but at least it keeps the agenda on a higher profile.

You shouldn't judge others by you're own standards, some of us have the stomach for a fight.

[carlt]

It may well not, but at least it keeps the agenda on a higher profile.

You shouldn't judge others by you're own standards, some of us have the stomach for a fight.

Waving a cyber petition in bliar's face is hardly a fight.

[Neil.A]

Waving a cyber petition in bliar's face is hardly a fight.

My moorings are under threat, mate. Thees a lot more going off down here than you might imagine.

[Lesd]

Sorry if its already been done, but it might help if we all signed this

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/moorings/

 

Neil

 

Signed. Blair may not listen but if enough people sign then at least BW won't be able to say we all want their crazy new mooring policy. Come public consulatation time it could prove useful. Apathy, as usual, is our worse enemy here !

Good luck Neil

[carlt]

My moorings are under threat, mate. Thees a lot more going off down here than you might imagine.

Sorry if I came across as glib Neil. It's just that after the govt. put the middle finger up at 2 million petitioners over the road pricing scheme my faith in the 'downing street petition site' is a little low.

 

Oh and never underestimate my imagination. I sat down under a JCB when they were trying to dig up my moorings a few years ago.

[Neil.A]

Signed. Blair may not listen but if enough people sign then at least BW won't be able to say we all want their crazy new mooring policy. Come public consulatation time it could prove useful. Apathy, as usual, is our worse enemy here !

Good luck Neil

Great post Les, all that needs to be said.

 

Sorry if I came across as glib Neil. It's just that after the govt. put the middle finger up at 2 million petitioners over the road pricing scheme my faith in the 'downing street petition site' is a little low.

 

Oh and never underestimate my imagination. I sat down under a JCB when they were trying to dig up my moorings a few years ago.

Sorry for snapping as well Carl, I shouldn't have. If we all stand up and be counted It just may make a difference. as opposed to sitting on our arses, doing nothing and letting the world and his dog ride roughshod over us all.

p.s Ta for the advice

[carlt]

Great post Les, all that needs to be said.

Sorry for snapping as well Carl, I shouldn't have. If we all stand up and be counted It just may make a difference. as opposed to sitting on our arses, doing nothing and letting the world and his dog ride roughshod over us all.

p.s Ta for the advice

No probs Neil, it's your home they're taking. If you think it will help then we should all sign.

[Neil.A]

No probs Neil, it's your home they're taking. If you think it will help then we should all sign.

We are all in the same boat <groan> it cant do any harm.

I'm a member of another non boating forum 55 of those members so far have signed it. Only a couple have an interest in boats, but all have an vested interest in not being screwed by this govenment and its quango's.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Neil.A

[GRPCruiserman]

We are all in the same boat <groan> it cant do any harm.

I'm a member of another non boating forum 55 of those members so far have signed it. Only a couple have an interest in boats, but all have an vested interest in not being screwed by this govenment and its quango's.

 

I took part in two seperate demonstrations against the speed limit on Windermere. The speed limit was objected to not only be owners of speed boats and jetskis etc, but also local businesses (many which have now gone under or significantly downscaled), and many local residents who feared the change in chrachter of the Lake which has all subsequantly proved to be true and has actually happened.

 

The speed limit was lobbied for by a small number of people who wanted it badly and who were in a position of authority which allowed them to get their way. There were no financial arguements FOR the speed limit, simply a wish to make the lake like others in the Lake District.

 

As a result, many hundreds of people have suffered, many loosing their livelihoods and way of life, including financial ruin and the destruction of businesses built up over decades. The entire area is now largely a ghost town and even when a further appeal was heard, the speed limit has still remained.

 

On the canals, the government is behind anyscheme which 'lets them off' using tax payers money to finance anything that does not loose them votes, and the vast majority of people in this country do not realise just how much the canals cost to maintain and retain, although a large proportion of canal users (walkers, cyclists etc) are using a national assett which if were a public park would be financed by the government, either local or national.

 

The opportunity here for the government in the form of British Waterways is that they have, and continue to, created a situation where demand for moorings far outstrips the supply of the same. This has been done over a number of years and has been done with public money and business like knowledge to promote and build up demand for use of the canals. This has been promoted as a good yhing to boaters with the continual promises that more users mean bigger incomes and lower costs to boaters.

 

It is obvious to me that the hidden agenda was to create a high enough demand for moorings that sufficient numbers o well off people were able to afford to buy their way up the ladder and beat the waiting lists so as to greatly increase income from boaters and so reduce the financial commitment of the government.

 

Beleive me, this is not what I would like to see, but I do feel that this is the tip of the ice berg, and will carry over on to Marinas owned by BW (hence their purchase and transfer free of charge to the company BWML from the government owned BW, and then licences.

 

As long as BW and the government are happy that there will be sufficent wealthy peopl to pay the money to keep boats in this way, then this will continue. The government are not concerned with the heritage value, simply the books balencing, and it is my belief that we have all been conned by a business plan constructed many years ago.

 

This situation is going to get worse, not better, and there is very little, as minority users (in numbers) of the canals, that boaters can do about it.

 

I sold my boat last year as I beleive that small, cheap boats, which hardly exist now anyway, will disappear from the canals and will become pretty much worthless in years to come as the running costs will simply be too high, as ther are now for me, and the only boats we will see will belong to the very rich who can afford liceces, moorings etc.

 

I hate this situation as I loved cruising the canals, but I am sad to say that I am now resigned to the fact that I will never get to use the canals again.

 

I am this year still a member of my local boat club, and attented the Annual Rally at Spring Bank Holiday. British Waterways had stopped almost all the usual facilities and public orientated events occuring in one way or another, and simply were not interested in attracting the general public. This is a big change from som years ago when they actively encouraged lesser welloff people to attend.

 

This is a sad situation, but unless you are very rich make the most of it whilst you can. I miss my boat more than I can put in to words, but I'm learning to live with it and have expanded my other hobbies.

 

Happy cruising for now.

Edited June 8, 2007 by GRPCruiserman

[fender]

I hope someone is happy that there are to be fewer online moorings on the Regents Canal

 

http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/content/...3A52%3A21%3A780

[tired old pirate]

Surely if everyone just refused to submit any tenders the scheme would fail? It wont happen though will it. Would it be worth attempting to organise on this? Some form of direct action will be the only way to get heard as we are up against money.

 

The proposed changes make a lot more sense of what was happening at the marina I used to moor at (£4k a year) I couldnt work out what they were up to but I think I have a handle on it now.

 

There are a lot of spaces available there now but you will be told its full if you try to get in, waiting list is 'years long' As spaces became available they were left empty and i couldnt work out why, but i now think that they are waiting for the rush of panicking boat owners who are willing to pay anything to get 'safe', shiny boat folk there were being heavily wooed and scruffety boat folk are being encouraged to move on. I believe that they are just clearing as much space as possible to prepare for the influx of people willing to pay more.

 

I certainly felt that liveaboard folk caused too much admin and grief by moaning about facilities and just generally being there all the time (have heard this from staff). I really felt like they would much prefer the spaces available to go to 'money is not really a problem' and 'we use the boat several times a year and on nice weekends people' Nothing wrong with folk rich enuff to do that but I'm not exactly what I call on the breadline (income £24k) and feel priced out of the mooring situation, I pay £310 a month for my boat mortgage which has still got 8 years to go, my last marina mooring was coming out at more a month than my boat payments! I cant afford it. Simple as that.

 

I am left bridgehopping and will stay that way, I have attempted to put my name on the waiting list for BW moorings which I could afford,but the lists are closed I would like an online mooring as it would make my life easier in some ways but I'm starting to think that I just dont want to play the whole mooring game. Its nice out on the cut and I dont believe that the legislation and guidance on cc'ing is enforceable or legal. If it was there would be precedants and evictions all over the place surely...?

 

Think a legal challenge to any action taken against bridgehoppers at judicial review level would pick up just a few issues, finishing up with a human rights challenge on article 8 'right to family life' challenge. why do I feel a cold chill?

Edited June 14, 2007 by tired old pirate

[buccaneer]

Here is a e-mail I was sent recently,I am on the waiting list,well was, I have a GRP boat I have a mooring be thought it was time for a change of scenery.

This will now be for only NB's but if as we have read above it will affect all boats that are moored close by online whether steel or plastic.

 

BARTON GRANGE GARDEN CENTRE AND MARINA

 

Many thanks for expressing an interest in mooring your boat at our new marina at Brock. The project is finally taking shape and we expect to open in spring 2008.

 

 

 

 

After much deliberation, we have decided our marina will be for steel hulls only. Looking at the questionnaire you kindly filled in, I am unsure as to whether your boat is a fibre glass or a steel hull boat. If you could contact my Personal Assistant, Tracy Curran, on 01772 867315 or email her at tracy@bartongrange.co.uk with further details, I would be very grateful.

 

 

 

Once again, may I take this opportunity to thank you for your interest in the marina; your patience in waiting for feedback has been very much appreciated.

 

 

 

We look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

Guy Topping

 

Managing Director

 

I was on this waiting list for over a year I think I was one of the first to formally apply.

[Grasshopper]

After much deliberation, we have decided our marina will be for steel hulls only.

 

Hmmm. They obviously don't like Sea Otters either then..............

[GRPCruiserman]

Here is a e-mail I was sent recently,I am on the waiting list,well was, I have a GRP boat I have a mooring be thought it was time for a change of scenery.

This will now be for only NB's but if as we have read above it will affect all boats that are moored close by online whether steel or plastic.

 

BARTON GRANGE GARDEN CENTRE AND MARINA

 

Many thanks for expressing an interest in mooring your boat at our new marina at Brock. The project is finally taking shape and we expect to open in spring 2008.

 

 

After much deliberation, we have decided our marina will be for steel hulls only. Looking at the questionnaire you kindly filled in, I am unsure as to whether your boat is a fibre glass or a steel hull boat. If you could contact my Personal Assistant, Tracy Curran, on 01772 867315 or email her at tracy@bartongrange.co.uk with further details, I would be very grateful.

 

 

 

Once again, may I take this opportunity to thank you for your interest in the marina; your patience in waiting for feedback has been very much appreciated.

 

 

 

We look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

Guy Topping

 

Managing Director

 

I was on this waiting list for over a year I think I was one of the first to formally apply.

 

This is disgusting!! How dare they!! It's pure discrimination. I have written them an e-mail expressing my disgust, and I urge others who feel the same to write a similar e-mail.

Edited June 14, 2007 by GRPCruiserman

[carlt]

This is disgusting!! How dare they!! It's pure discrimination. I have written them an e-mail expressing my disgust, and I urge others who feel the same to write a similar e-mail.

The towpath just outside sounds just the place to hold the first annual wooden, glassfibre and concrete boat rally.

[Typowriter]

What really comes across after reading BWs press release, Eugene's comments etc is that BW has no idea what it is doing with this "trial". Typically of a government department it has come up with some bullshit notion and quoted "transparency and efficency" like all the rest of the spin addicted money grabbing bastards as justification to do whatever the hell they like.

It's time this nonsense stopped and people started being a bit more fucking honest about things.

It is vastly unfair on anyone on the waiting list already. Also, the non-acceptance of new applications seems very curious and I would almost take it as evidence that this "trial" is going to get automatic approval at the end of the 12 month period. Why otherwise would people be turned away from what they already know to be a lengthy wait?

 

 

(Can you tell I'm angry?)

Edited June 14, 2007 by Typowriter

[Neil.A]

I wonder if BW will be issuing a statement with their tender Paperwork:

"BW accepts no responsibillity for damage caused to your boat by people on waitng lists you have jumped in front of."

Just a thought....

Edited June 14, 2007 by Neil.A

[Typowriter]

I wonder if BW will be issuing a statement with their tender Paperwork:

"BW accepts no responsibillity for damage caused to your boat by people on waitng lists you have jumped in front of."

Just a thought....

The "trial" certainly isn't going to promote a community atmosphere. Then again they're very keen on the line "blah blah we aren't a housing authority" or some bollocks.