Haven't got a mooring?

[carlt]

I thought the debate was doing ok?

 

I certainly havent meant to personally attack anyone, I'd like to think I could have this conversation with anyone here face to face?

I'd have a chat over a pint anytime Yammy. Somehow I think bikes travelling very fast round little islands would be higher on the agenda though.

[NB Alnwick]

I've been on BW waiting list for nearly two years now and am not near the top yet !!!

 

How do you know? We thought the same thing - then all of a sudden a letter came offering us the mooring we had always wanted! Be patient it'll come . . .

[grunders]

If you have paid your licence fee can you moor in the middle of nowhere for as long as you want? (innocent question, by the way, I don't understand the mechanics of all this mooring malarky)

 

OR is it that BW own all the towpath so you have to pay to moor anywhere for longer than [some specified length of time] or is it something in between?

 

I'm a tad confused

[mayalld]

I don't think you're the culprit Bones, I think it's me and mayalld who are raising the temperature too high.

 

I too apologise Tom or Sophie or both, and shall retire gracefully, wish everyone fair boating, and go and find the goat's eggs forum. There are plenty of unresolved issues there!

 

Are we raising the temperature too high?

 

That is one of the troubles with the net. lack of visual cues.

 

Clearly carlt and I have very different viewpoints.

 

Clearly neither of us thinks that the other's point of view is correct.

 

Clearly there will be those who think one or the other of us is 100% right, there will be those with views in between, and there will be those who think I'm a wishy-washy liberal, whilst carlt is a raging facist.

 

It is, however, debate. Putting forward your point of view. That is what forums are for, and they would be seriously dull places without debate.

 

Never mistake impassioned debate for animosity. I don't agree with carlt's POV, but it doesn't mean that I dislike him. On the contrary, whilst I disagree with many of his views, I respect him for the way that he puts forward views that might not be popular.

 

I suspect that we could have just the same debate in a pub over a pint or seven, and part as friends.

 

If you have paid your licence fee can you moor in the middle of nowhere for as long as you want? (innocent question, by the way, I don't understand the mechanics of all this mooring malarky)

 

OR is it that BW own all the towpath so you have to pay to moor anywhere for longer than [some specified length of time] or is it something in between?

 

I'm a tad confused

 

In the absence of any signed restriction, you may moor anywhere for a maximum of 14 days.

 

After 14 days, you must move on, and that is where the fun begins.

 

How far is far enough to have actually moved on, and how soon can you return.

 

Clearly moving 70' one way and 70' back every couple of weeks isn't playing by the "no more than 14 days in one place"

 

It is difficult to lay down what is and isn't OK (BW have tried and failed), but there is an inate sense of what is OK and what isn't.

 

Broadly speaking a "place" is a town or village, or in some cases a distinct rural area distant from any town or village.

 

So moving on to the next village every 2 weeks is fine. Moving backwards and forwards between 2 villages isn't.

[grunders]

After 14 days, you must move on, and that is where the fun begins.

 

 

Ok, I see now. I knew there were 14 day restrictions in some places but didn't realise that that applied everywhere unless otherwise specified.

 

Thank you.

[Lesd]

Are we raising the temperature too high?

 

That is one of the troubles with the net. lack of visual cues.

 

Clearly carlt and I have very different viewpoints.

 

Clearly neither of us thinks that the other's point of view is correct.

 

Clearly there will be those who think one or the other of us is 100% right, there will be those with views in between, and there will be those who think I'm a wishy-washy liberal, whilst carlt is a raging facist.

 

It is, however, debate. Putting forward your point of view. That is what forums are for, and they would be seriously dull places without debate.

 

Never mistake impassioned debate for animosity. I don't agree with carlt's POV, but it doesn't mean that I dislike him. On the contrary, whilst I disagree with many of his views, I respect him for the way that he puts forward views that might not be popular.

 

I suspect that we could have just the same debate in a pub over a pint or seven, and part as friends.

In the absence of any signed restriction, you may moor anywhere for a maximum of 14 days.

 

After 14 days, you must move on, and that is where the fun begins.

 

How far is far enough to have actually moved on, and how soon can you return.

 

Clearly moving 70' one way and 70' back every couple of weeks isn't playing by the "no more than 14 days in one place"

 

It is difficult to lay down what is and isn't OK (BW have tried and failed), but there is an inate sense of what is OK and what isn't.

 

Broadly speaking a "place" is a town or village, or in some cases a distinct rural area distant from any town or village.

 

So moving on to the next village every 2 weeks is fine. Moving backwards and forwards between 2 villages isn't.

 

I know someone who moors up for two weeks in one place (not on any 24/48 hrs visitor moorings) then moves on two or three miles and stays there for a couple more weeks. This process continues for maybe three months, moving two or three miles every two weeks, he probably covers about 12-15 miles in total. He then cruises back to his original starting place and repeats the process. I know its not strictly sticking to the cc rules but I personally cant see what harm he's doing (no doubt other will).

Les

[gaggle]

kill them , sink the boat and set fire to the bodies , if they have pets on board cook and eat them.

i mean a line has to be drawn , no pay no play.

 

float along on your boat and enjoy the canals and your boat without worrying about what others are doing or not doing , or try to do this for most of the time.

fair enough at times some stuff will get your goat but some people make a life out of finding stuff to moan about , like the slow down merchants who stand and wait for boats to pass with the sole hope that one will be going a bit over tickover and allow them to jump up and wave their arms about.

have a moan and forget.

[carlt]

Never mistake impassioned debate for animosity. I don't agree with carlt's POV, but it doesn't mean that I dislike him. On the contrary, whilst I disagree with many of his views, I respect him for the way that he puts forward views that might not be popular.

 

I suspect that we could have just the same debate in a pub over a pint or seven, and part as friends.

Absolutely, but if other people are upset or concerned about the direction a debate may lead, and an obvious stalemate is reached, it's probably time to move on (and start the debate up again in a fortnight's time).

[mayalld]

Absolutely, but if other people are upset or concerned about the direction a debate may lead, and an obvious stalemate is reached, it's probably time to move on (and start the debate up again in a fortnight's time).

 

Hmm, of course those people could just be twitching the net curtains at the noise we are making!

[Sir Nibble]

"Look" says the man from BW, "we should put visitor moorings in this popular place".

Lots of OUR money is spent on said moorings.

"Look" say the wonderful colourful and cherished free spirits, "a place to live", and duly move in.

Result lots of our money spent, still no visitor moorings.

Some folks are upset by the "lots of our money spent" some by the "still no visitor moorings" and some by NASTY people complaining about the wonderful colourful and cherished free spirits who are only doing what's right with what's theirs.

 

I've thought of another one, and I think it's highly relevant.

 

One may, with a perfectly reasonable individualism say...

"There are rules. I didn't make them, nor was I consulted, they are not my rules and I do not own them. It is for those who make the rules to enforce them and I am under no obligation to do the job others have set before themselves."

 

Having looked at it this way, I feel that Carl's attitude springs from individualism and is to be respected.

This is not to say I agree, but that I believe I see the point, and respect the point of view as well as his right to hold it.

[mayalld]

I've thought of another one, and I think it's highly relevant.

 

One may, with a perfectly reasonable individualism say...

"There are rules. I didn't make them, nor was I consulted, they are not my rules and I do not own them. It is for those who make the rules to enforce them and I am under no obligation to do the job others have set before themselves."

 

Indeed so, and I woulod never claim that anybody has a duty to report an overstayer or licence dodger. That is down to individual choice.

 

However...

 

It is also an individual choice to decide to assist the navigation authority.

[Maverick]

We dont live in an ideal World and havnt done for a very long time. Its everyone for him/herself out there now and if that makes me selfish then fine, I'll join the majority and leave you dreamers to carry on.

 

The fault lies fairly and squarely with BW. They make the rules and dont police them and it pi***s off those of us that try to play by the rules only to be laughed at.

 

NOT ANYMORE.

[Grasshopper]

One may, with a perfectly reasonable individualism say...

"There are rules. I didn't make them, nor was I consulted, they are not my rules and I do not own them. It is for those who make the rules to enforce them and I am under no obligation to do the job others have set before themselves

 

Interesting. Although you could view the buying of a licence from BW for the boat as an implicit agreement that you will abide by their 'rules'. So licencing the boat and then not paying mooring fees or over staying on visitor moorings seems a bit wishy washy on the individualism front. Obviously the true individual shouldn't licence the boat either and just totally stick two fingers up at the forces of repression............

[carlt]

Indeed so, and I woulod never claim that anybody has a duty to report an overstayer or licence dodger. That is down to individual choice.

 

However...

 

It is also an individual choice to decide to assist the navigation authority.

I would stress I don't condone licence dodging or overstaying (on short term moorings, I find myself unmoved by people squatting in the middle of nowhere).

 

My attitude comes more from wanting my privacy and, therefore , respecting others.

 

There are folk who look at my boats and think I am squatting and living life on the cheap, despite the fact that since my solar panels were stolen I can't afford to live on the boat and have moved back into the house. We're better off now despite not having the rental income coming in (50 miles a day commute from boat to work and school reduced to a 5 minute walk and our weekly leccy and heating bill has become monthly.). If I were to judge every scruffy boat (or posh one, I know of one guy who's boat was 5 years old when he finally got caught and was asked to get himself an index no.) then I'd have to doff my cap meekly everytime someone made a derisory comment going past my beautiful boats.

 

My personal opinion is, however, if you want to dodge the system then you should keep your head down and not affect anyone elses life, like those folk who lived in mud huts in the middle of nowhere, in wales for years.

 

Removing boats from the water doesn't increase income, it costs money, therefore any means BW can use to secure payment should be used, including pressurising local authorities to treat licences as rent for people entitled to housing benefit.

 

A person I knew was proud of the fact he'd never had a licence or paid a mooring in over 15 years of boating, and yet he qualified for income support and dla, so housing benefit should have been a doddle but the system didn't allow him to claim, without a mooring, so he didn't bother. Every time BW took a boat off him, he went and got another, and this normally meant an old wooden one. He is probably responsible for the destruction of more wooden boats than anyone, since BW stopped burning, breaking and sinking them in the 60s/70s. Maybe if BW had liaised with the relevant authorities and sorted out some housing benefit for his licence, he wouldn't have cost so much in money, boats or time.

[Sir Nibble]

Interesting. Although you could view the buying of a licence from BW for the boat as an implicit agreement that you will abide by their 'rules'. So licencing the boat and then not paying mooring fees or over staying on visitor moorings seems a bit wishy washy on the individualism front. Obviously the true individual shouldn't licence the boat either and just totally stick two fingers up at the forces of repression............

 

I think you miss my point. I do not suggest that failing to abide by the rules is an act of individualism. Only that if others break the rules one can as an individual choose to say, "Not my problem, they're BW's rules, it's BW's problem to enforce them, and I would find it easier to get on with my life if other people didn't lay their problems on me".

[StoneHenge]

Lots of interesting points on here. What I will say (and it is purely a personal point of view) is that I intend to pay for my license and moorings fees and try not to overstay anywhere. That's just me making me feel better when I go to sleep at night. Just because it's the way I am.

 

If you chose not to pay for them, well, that's your choice, and I'm not going to hate you for it, as long as you show respect for the water and others around you.

Edited May 2, 2007 by StoneHenge

[Supermalc]

If a car is taking up a disabled parking space, with no badge, that is ignorant, selfish behaviour.

 

As I think you know, I agree with most of your views Carl, only there are exceptions which you may not know about.

 

Despite what others think, I can't work (that is not only don't want to, but can't) By 'can't' I mean I cannot leave my home and go somewhere on a daily basis without succuming to serious discomfort, resulting in my being unable to function. This may be after a day, or a few days, or weeks, or months, even up to a year.

 

As much of the world must now know, I only get IC........the lowest anyone gets to live on in this country. Since I have been living alone since July 1993 I must do my own shopping etc. So when I go to Tesco's who's car parks are full of invalid spaces, single mothers and baby spaces, wheelchair only spaces, I'm too idle to not take the closest parking space to the door spaces, I have to park at the furthest space in the park, the closest available. Then have to find a trolley to use as a walking frame to make my way to the store to by my bread loaf, milk and a few tins of no frills beans.

 

OK I'm in a bit of a mood today, as I've overdone it again.

 

I've just had a few really good days - be kind to Malcolm days, which usually set me up for weeks.

 

Wednesday I had a boat trip to Boston

Thursday my friends girl friend rang to ask if I wanted a trip to the coast.......to my old home which I haven't visited this year, and seems to be the best anti-depressant since I've lived here in 1979.

Friday Roy rang to ask if I wanted my boat towing back to Southrey behind his. Walked from Southrey to Kirkstead then boated back. Later went to boat club then across town to meet my friends to arrange Saturday

Saturday had a short boat trip with my friends, then another upstream to Bardney to restock, empty etc. Saw others for the first time this year, who were genuinely delighted to see me. In the evening, went to town with my friends from earlier and enjoyed a night out around town for the first time for what?????? 15 years.

Sunday, hangover only lasted about 1/4 hour (must put antihangover pills in Bud) had another boat trip with some people I've just met, and who rang Saturday. Upsteam to Bardney and Fiskerton Fen to enjoy their picnic lunch, before back through lock and around to Trywhitt for a pint, in ever improving weather. Found a bike in the skip.

Monday went for coffee after invite from M8s girl friend, who also wanted help wire stripping (that's WIRE STRIPPING for the scrap copper, just in case you misread ) then rebuilt bike ......... conned managed to get good discount on new tyre and tube from local bike shop.

Yesterday, despite sore hip, went to Southrey, managed a bike ride, the first for several years, then sorted the tent out that I'd found on the riverbank earlier in the year.......all in brilliant sunshine, with Roy in the best of spirits with his shirt off, sanding and painting his boat. As he said he could not have been happier.

 

Today, hip pain much worse, can hardly walk. I struggled to drive back yesterday, but supplies are low, Barney needs a walk, and house is a mess....much more than normal as I've been doing the projects......computers, boats, bikes etc. And it is the Kyme get together which I'd like to go to on Saturday.

 

Moral .......... DON'T upset me today :cheers:

[StoneHenge]

Forgive me for being off topic, but it's people like you Malcolm who really need these spots. I get annoyed when people use the parent and child spots to park in and they have a teenager with them or even worse no kids at all. Perfectly able bodied people. If I saw someone who was struggling to walk etc, I wouldn't bat an eye lid.

 

I find it as inconsiderate as using disabled spaces when you are not disabled, or have a temporary disability (which I believe should allow you to use spaces like these if you don't have help).

 

Hope your pain eases. As a sufferer of a long term neck problem (from severe whilpash six years ago), I know only too well about those good days and bad days.

[Grasshopper]

think you miss my point. I do not suggest that failing to abide by the rules is an act of individualism. Only that if others break the rules one can as an individual choose to say, "Not my problem, they're BW's rules, it's BW's problem to enforce them, and I would find it easier to get on with my life if other people didn't lay their problems on me".

 

Possibly I did. But then I was only using it as a hook to spin off what was a weak attempt at humour. Failed again..........

 

Now that I do understand, I suspect rather a lot of the population subscribe to that form of individualism. 'Nothing to do with me, Guv.........'

[fender]

It is in my own interest to ensure that people don't get away without paying.

 

In that case it is also essential to ensure that people dont get richer than others. Fair?

[Duchess Omnium]

I bought a boat in October. I am the third owner. I guess the rules have changed a bit, but she has been on the same mooring -- in fact within a few hundred yards of where she was built -- since she was launched 10 years ago, so moorings must have been transferable five or so years back.

 

I loved the relatively isolated spot where she was, about nine miles from where I work. There are no services -- no water, no elsan, no electricity, no towpath lighting -- though there is a nearby pub and a place to park. The community is wonderful.

 

The vendor explained to me that he couldn't transfer the mooring to me. He was completely honest. But what he, and loads of other people, said to me was that BW was so disorganised that I could probably get a legal mooring anyway. Spots stayed empty and unpaid for for ages! I should just hang loose and then after awhile drive to the office with my cheque book abnd say, you haven't allocated my mooring to anyone else and here I am to pay.

 

I even talked to a BW warden who told me that if I was on the waiting list it was BW's responsibility to find me a spot -- he was not the only responsible, reasonable boat owner who said this to me. I did go into this optimistically, I have to admit, but not blind.

 

So, I was a visitor for two weeks, and then, as it turned November, I paid for a winter mooring. I could have just stayed there for nothing, in fact, but I really, really wanted to be legal and to play it by the book.

 

When the license came due a couple of months later they were happy to license the boat on the basis of my winter mooring. But unfortunately, on the 31st of March BW weren't as disorganised as I had been led to believe and "my" mooring was allocated to someone else.

 

I moved down the line to just after the end of the permanent moorings site. It is actually rather dodgy there, with bits of the bank having fallen away, and probably not ideal for visitors anyway. It doesn't actually even say "14 day moorings" but I know that is the rule. And so far the area isn't a bit crowded and there is plenty of space behind me that no one has occupied. I guess it will get busier in the summer though -- although I am also told that there are boats in the area that haven't either paid or been moved on for years...

 

I take Pangolin regularly on little day trips along the canal, but I am singlehanded and still inexperienced and need a visiting crew to help, so we don't go far and I tend to end up back where I started. Since mid April, I fknow I have been a squatter, an illegal, an evader of payment.

 

My feeling is, I haven't introduced a new boat onto the canal. My boat isn't occupying any more space than it ever did. I am on the waiting list for a permanent mooring anywhere within a pretty big radius (but BW rules say I cannot be on a waiting list for more than 3 spots -- I have emailed them for advice on how long the waiting list is, whether I should choose a different three slots, whatever, but no answer). I would very much like to be legal and be ALLOWED to pay...