CRT extended stay

[Jerra]

That's not really a comparison is it. Lol

The point I was making is a light hearted way is that (and I have never been charged for a missed appointment) charges are made by businesses for various things without their customers whinging about laws and permission.

[jenlyn]

I keep a logbook for my own interest and dating back to my sailing days.

 

I posted it as a counter to the repeated posts that constantly tell us what a bunch of b*stards CRT are and are constantly 'harassing' all us innocent boaters, my experience is that they are not and don't. (think I may have mentioned this in the OP ).

So you posted to cause some controversy, ok, well it worked.

What you need to bear in mind, is that your dealings with CRT only involve yourself.

Some frequently and sometimes daily deal with CRT on behalf of others, and therefore have a broader experience of how CRT behave.

Consequently, they feel the need to sometimes "out" their frustration.

 

A lot of the ideas CRT attempt to bring in can be ill thought out, and CRT being slightly hard of hearing, need to be shouted at in order for them to see sense.

The trust is getting better because those people you suggest "knock" CRT, are more often than not the ones who have made the trust see sense.

[bassplayer]

...to the repeated posts that constantly tell us what a bunch of b*stards CRT are and are constantly 'harassing' all us innocent boaters

Really?

 

My experiences so far are that CRT are accomodating (as you say) provided you let them know what the problem is. It's just that sometimes it feels like I'm asking for permission to deal with a problem they have created for pathetic reasons.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

So you posted to cause some controversy, ok, well it worked.

What you need to bear in mind, is that your dealings with CRT only involve yourself.

Some frequently and sometimes daily deal with CRT on behalf of others, and therefore have a broader experience of how CRT behave.

Consequently, they feel the need to sometimes "out" their frustration.

 

A lot of the ideas CRT attempt to bring in can be ill thought out, and CRT being slightly hard of hearing, need to be shouted at in order for them to see sense.

The trust is getting better because those people you suggest "knock" CRT, are more often than not the ones who have made the trust see sense.

Not quite sure why it would be considered 'controversial' that CRT aren't all a bunch of b*stards and out to harass all us innocent boaters, but hey ho!

 

What strikes me is that a lot of posters who continually harp on about CRT remind me of a certain Health Secretary (getting dangerously close to politics here ) in that they NEVER have a good word to say about them. EVERYTHING they post is negative (no names mentioned unless specifically asked ). This isn't how you create a constructive atmosphere. There is a method of working (I believe it is used in aviation) known as 'no blame' whereby problems are highlighted and methods of correction are agreed without the necessity of trying to find someone to blame. Perhaps if we could make use of this a bit more it may help. For those who wish to constantly berate CRT there was always the opportunity to step up to the plate before CRT was formed to tell the Government that they would run the canal system and how they would do it to best effect, I seem to recall a pretty deafening silence at the time

Really?

 

My experiences so far are that CRT are accomodating (as you say) provided you let them know what the problem is. It's just that sometimes it feels like I'm asking for permission to deal with a problem they have created for pathetic reasons.

But you're not asking for permission! If you have a legitimate reason you are merely informing them of it. It is only if you don't have a legitimate reason that problems arise.

[jenlyn]

Not quite sure why it would be considered 'controversial' that CRT aren't all a bunch of b*stards and out to harass all us innocent boaters, but hey ho!

 

What strikes me is that a lot of posters who continually harp on about CRT remind me of a certain Health Secretary (getting dangerously close to politics here ) in that they NEVER have a good word to say about them. EVERYTHING they post is negative (no names mentioned unless specifically asked ). This isn't how you create a constructive atmosphere. There is a method of working (I believe it is used in aviation) known as 'no blame' whereby problems are highlighted and methods of correction are agreed without the necessity of trying to find someone to blame. Perhaps if we could make use of this a bit more it may help. For those who wish to constantly berate CRT there was always the opportunity to step up to the plate before CRT was formed to tell the Government that they would run the canal system and how they would do it to best effect, I seem to recall a pretty deafening silence at the time

 

I've seen people with "after affects" from a meeting with CRT. I have even experienced those affects.

I can fully understand why some (seem to be)constantly (in your words) knock CRT, and I feel more often than not, they are justified.

 

If you had attended and sat through the South East VM workshops a couple of years ago, you would probably have been quite shocked at the devious and dishonest way they behaved.

Edited March 31, 2016 by jenlyn

[bassplayer]

...NEVER have a good word to say about them. EVERYTHING they post is negative (no names mentioned unless specifically asked)...

Go on then, who?

 

I think there are a few people on this forum who have had a very bad experience with CRT/BWB in the past (me included). It's understandable they may be bitter and twisted and it's good that we get to hear the other side of the story.

 

I've tried to put things behind me and move on. I'll carry on saying what I see, hear and think whether it be good and bad without bias.

 

For me the jury is out on CRT's motives (or the motives of those driving them). Time will tell in the end.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I've seen people with "after affects" from a meeting with CRT. I have even experienced those affects.

I can fully understand why some (seem to be)constantly (in your words) knock CRT, and I feel more often than not, they are justified.

 

If you had attended and sat through the South East VM workshops a couple of years ago, you would probably have been quite shocked at the devious and dishonest way they behaved.

The mere fact that you sat through the workshops would suggest that is isn't as 'devious and dishonest' as you portray. Truly devious and dishonest stuff takes place behind closed doors and you don't get to hear anything about it (don't ask me how I know ).

 

Go on then, who?

 

I think there are a few people on this forum who have had a very bad experience with CRT/BWB in the past (me included). It's understandable they may be bitter and twisted and it's good that we get to hear the other side of the story.

 

I've tried to put things behind me and move on. I'll carry on saying what I see, hear and think whether it be good and bad without bias.

 

For me the jury is out on CRT's motives (or the motives of those driving them). Time will tell in the end.

The initials of one were included in my original post.

[jenlyn]

The mere fact that you sat through the workshops would suggest that is isn't as 'devious and dishonest' as you portray. Truly devious and dishonest stuff takes place behind closed doors and you don't get to hear anything about it (don't ask me how I know ).

 

 

I don't have to ask you how you know.

The simple answer is, you don't know, you weren't there. So you can only make assumptions.

[Jerra]

it's good that we get to hear the other side of the story.

That is part of the problem for me we only hear the boaters side of the story never the other side.

[bassplayer]

That is part of the problem for me we only hear the boaters side of the story never the other side.

Well it's true we rarely hear CRT's reasons for doing things. Mind you, if you have ever been to one of their meetings you may well remain none the wiser.

[Hawthorn]

There is no "permissible " overstay, as no one gives permission. The CRT has no authotity to give any permission. The enforcement officer has no authority, anymore than a lollypop lady. Nor are you required to provide evidence, if CRT are not happy they have the option of presenting evidence to a court. If you abuse the right to overstay you could find yourself in court with no evidence or any defence, and you loose. Its fair all round.

Very succinctly put. ....'reasonable in the circumstances...' depends on the circumstances. Not moving in the direction of your choice, because the direction of your choice is not available may be considered reasonable by some, it may be considered unreasonable by others. WV decided that he would alert CRT. This is an acid test. If it was thought that overstaying was not reasonable, he would have received a pretty clear piece of advice. As was stated they cannot give permission, but if they disagree with you as to the definition of what is 'reasonable' in a given set of 'circumstances', they can refer this to a higher authority for determination.

[gaggle]

Very succinctly put. ....'reasonable in the circumstances...' depends on the circumstances. Not moving in the direction of your choice, because the direction of your choice is not available may be considered reasonable by some, it may be considered unreasonable by others. WV decided that he would alert CRT. This is an acid test. If it was thought that overstaying was not reasonable, he would have received a pretty clear piece of advice. As was stated they cannot give permission, but if they disagree with you as to the definition of what is 'reasonable' in a given set of 'circumstances', they can refer this to a higher authority for determination.

Which they refuse to do ? do they not instead remove your licence and go to the higher authority to get you removed from the waterways they control.

[CDS]

The mere fact that you sat through the workshops would suggest that is isn't as 'devious and dishonest' as you portray. Truly devious and dishonest stuff takes place behind closed doors and you don't get to hear anything about it (don't ask me how I know ).

 

The initials of one were included in my original post.

Come on now,don't be vague,out with it man!

[Mike Todd]

If I was going to miss an appointment with my dentist I would inform him for two reasons.

 

First and perhaps most important it is courteous.

 

Second unless you are careful they charge for missed appointments, I can't quote any law which gives them the power (perhaps they don't need one ).

In fact the situation with doctors and dentists is not all the dissimilar to the CCing. If you persistently abuse the system (eg frequently missing appointments and nit telling them) they are entitled to drop you from their list and you will have to go elsewhere. AFAIK, they don't even have to go to court over it.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Which they refuse to do ? do they not instead remove your licence and go to the higher authority to get you removed from the waterways they control.

I think you've rather accelerated the process a bit haven't you? First they will notify you that you have been staying somewhere for too long (apparently by text as one guy at Rugby told me he waits for the text then moves on). If you choose to ignore the 'advice' then when your licence comes up for renewal they tell you of their concerns over your lack of movement and will offer you a short term licence to give you the opportunity to comply with the conditions that you agreed to when you initially took out your licence. If after these efforts at compliance fail then they will refuse you a licence which is where your account comes in, it is however a little way down the road rather than the almost instant 'begone!' implied by your post

[jenlyn]

I think you've rather accelerated the process a bit haven't you? First they will notify you that you have been staying somewhere for too long (apparently by text as one guy at Rugby told me he waits for the text then moves on). If you choose to ignore the 'advice' then when your licence comes up for renewal they tell you of their concerns over your lack of movement and will offer you a short term licence to give you the opportunity to comply with the conditions that you agreed to when you initially took out your licence. If after these efforts at compliance fail then they will refuse you a licence which is where your account comes in, it is however a little way down the road rather than the almost instant 'begone!' implied by your post

You wanna tell your mate not to rely too heavily on those txts. They stop after a while, and you just get refused a licence at renewal.

[bassplayer]

In fact the situation with doctors and dentists is not all the dissimilar to the CCing. If you persistently abuse the system (eg frequently missing appointments and nit telling them) they are entitled to drop you from their list and you will have to go elsewhere. AFAIK, they don't even have to go to court over it.

If you abuse the dental system by missing an appointment you may be delaying someone else getting treatment to eliviate their pain (or worse).

 

Is anyone really suggesting that this analogy is equivelent to not informing CRT that you need to stay on a mooring a bit longer than it says on a CRT sign?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

You wanna tell your mate not to rely too heavily on those txts. They stop after a while, and you just get refused a licence at renewal.

I have to say that I thought his approach a little, shall we say, unwise. I pulled in to moor at Newbold, not realising that I initially pulled into the Long Term Permit Holders section. Asked him if it was 14 day mooring and he told me that it was OK to moor as long as you like, which is where his method of waiting for the texts kicked in. Once I found where the 14 day moorings were I moved on to them and left him to it