Sunshine Solar Inverters

[rogeriko]

That inverter weighs only 5.7 kilos that means it is a high frequency inverter with tiny small transformers, they are not good at running motors, pumps etc. The best inverters for motors etc are the low frequency types that have a large toroidal transformer inside. They weigh over 20 kilos for a 3000w inverter.

Read all the sales blurb on this page to understand. I dont know if their inverter is any good but the electronic theory is correct.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12000W-3000W-LF-Pure-Sine-Wave-Power-Inverter-48V-DC-230V-AC-3-5-LCD-UPS-Charger-/131508654971?hash=item1e9e86d37b:g:2WcAAOSwstxU3YRR

 

I install commercial inverter systems for a living.

[MarkHez]

I've been using a sunshine solar inverter for 12 months, my first one went knackered in 3 days running the fridge, it got replaced under warranty and this one has been perfect ever since.

[bozlite]

That inverter weighs only 5.7 kilos that means it is a high frequency inverter with tiny small transformers, they are not good at running motors, pumps etc. The best inverters for motors etc are the low frequency types that have a large toroidal transformer inside. They weigh over 20 kilos for a 3000w inverter.

Read all the sales blurb on this page to understand. I dont know if their inverter is any good but the electronic theory is correct.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12000W-3000W-LF-Pure-Sine-Wave-Power-Inverter-48V-DC-230V-AC-3-5-LCD-UPS-Charger-/131508654971?hash=item1e9e86d37b:g:2WcAAOSwstxU3YRR

 

I install commercial inverter systems for a living.

Interesting reading - thanks for that.

[George94]

That inverter weighs only 5.7 kilos that means it is a high frequency inverter with tiny small transformers, they are not good at running motors, pumps etc. The best inverters for motors etc are the low frequency types that have a large toroidal transformer inside. They weigh over 20 kilos for a 3000w inverter.

Read all the sales blurb on this page to understand. I dont know if their inverter is any good but the electronic theory is correct.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12000W-3000W-LF-Pure-Sine-Wave-Power-Inverter-48V-DC-230V-AC-3-5-LCD-UPS-Charger-/131508654971?hash=item1e9e86d37b:g:2WcAAOSwstxU3YRR

 

I install commercial inverter systems for a living.

 

I have a 3000 Watt Rich Electric low frequency inverter. It weighs 30 kgs.

 

Even on the cold setting, the inverter is incapable of running the washing machine because the slow-burn 300 Amp fuse burns every time I switch the machine on. The inverter will happily run an electric fire, so I don't think that it is to blame. Just a massive start-up current.

 

And no, I don't normally run electric fires from the inverter. That was just a test.

[IanD]

Interesting reading - thanks for that.

Also a load of cobblers. The peak/surge power of any inverter is nothing to do with the transformer, it's to do with the electronics -- any transformer can carry peak power for a few seconds far higher than the continuous power.

 

The "low-frequency transformer" inverters do all the switching to generate the sinewave (hopefully!) mains waveform at the battery voltage (primary side of transformer) and then just step the result up with a big 50Hz transformer, this is the cheapest and easiest way to do it but not always the most efficient (and is very heavy for high powers).

 

The "high-frequency transformer" inverters use more complex switching on both primary and secondary sides of the transformer, if properly designed (e.g. using zero-current or zero-voltage or resonant switching) they can be more efficient as well as much lighter (especially for high powers), but the design is considerably more difficult and complex -- and if you don't know what you're doing, much more likely to emit the magic smoke.

 

So if you're going for a cheap inverter from China, a low-frequency one is probably the safest bet. If you're going for a high-quality high-power one (e.g. Victron, Mastervolt) then a high-frequency one has advantages.

[Loafer]

Also a load of cobblers. The peak/surge power of any inverter is nothing to do with the transformer, it's to do with the electronics -- any transformer can carry peak power for a few seconds far higher than the continuous power.

 

The "low-frequency transformer" inverters do all the switching to generate the sinewave (hopefully!) mains waveform at the battery voltage (primary side of transformer) and then just step the result up with a big 50Hz transformer, this is the cheapest and easiest way to do it but not always the most efficient (and is very heavy for high powers).

 

The "high-frequency transformer" inverters use more complex switching on both primary and secondary sides of the transformer, if properly designed (e.g. using zero-current or zero-voltage or resonant switching) they can be more efficient as well as much lighter (especially for high powers), but the design is considerably more difficult and complex -- and if you don't know what you're doing, much more likely to emit the magic smoke.

 

So if you're going for a cheap inverter from China, a low-frequency one is probably the safest bet. If you're going for a high-quality high-power one (e.g. Victron, Mastervolt) then a high-frequency one has advantages.

 

Watch out if you buy Victron. 'High-frequency' there just means you have to get a new one more often!

[Montecarlo]

I've been using a sunshine solar inverter for 12 months, my first one went knackered in 3 days running the fridge, it got replaced under warranty and this one has been perfect ever since.

I've been using a sunshine solar inverter for 12 months, my first one went knackered in 3 days running the fridge, it got replaced under warranty and this one has been perfect ever since.

Thanks Mark, good to know they replaced it OK and that the subsequent one was OK. Know of 3 people now who have these and there happy with them. I've read some of the more technical posts and they don't really mean much.Someone tried to explain the workings to me...mentioned MOSFETs...whatever they are...I glazed over frankly!!

The fact the first one went doesn't mean too much, plenty of Sterling and Mastervolt ones go too!

[Montecarlo]

I've been using a sunshine solar inverter for 12 months, my first one went knackered in 3 days running the fridge, it got replaced under warranty and this one has been perfect ever since.

I've been using a sunshine solar inverter for 12 months, my first one went knackered in 3 days running the fridge, it got replaced under warranty and this one has been perfect ever since.

Thanks Mark, good to know they replaced it OK and that the subsequent one was OK. Know of 3 people now who have these and there happy with them. I've read some of the more technical posts and they don't really mean much.Someone tried to explain the workings to me...mentioned MOSFETs...whatever they are...I glazed over frankly!!

The fact the first one went doesn't mean too much, plenty of Sterling and Mastervolt ones go too!

[cuthound]

Also a load of cobblers. The peak/surge power of any inverter is nothing to do with the transformer, it's to do with the electronics -- any transformer can carry peak power for a few seconds far higher than the continuous power.

 

The "low-frequency transformer" inverters do all the switching to generate the sinewave (hopefully!) mains waveform at the battery voltage (primary side of transformer) and then just step the result up with a big 50Hz transformer, this is the cheapest and easiest way to do it but not always the most efficient (and is very heavy for high powers).

 

The "high-frequency transformer" inverters use more complex switching on both primary and secondary sides of the transformer, if properly designed (e.g. using zero-current or zero-voltage or resonant switching) they can be more efficient as well as much lighter (especially for high powers), but the design is considerably more difficult and complex -- and if you don't know what you're doing, much more likely to emit the magic smoke.

 

So if you're going for a cheap inverter from China, a low-frequency one is probably the safest bet. If you're going for a high-quality high-power one (e.g. Victron, Mastervolt) then a high-frequency one has advantages.

Absolutely right.

 

The reason why high frequency inverters were adopted by industry was to make them smaller and lighter for a given power. The higher the frequency any wound device (like a coil or transformer) operated at the smaller it can be.

 

Cheaper inverters use thyristors rather than power transistors, which switch at lower (usually mains) frequencies, and thus required larger transformers.

Watch out if you buy Victron. 'High-frequency' there just means you have to get a new one more often!

I have used Victron UPSs commercially (150-1000kVA) when i was working and they have proven to be very reliable.

 

My boat has an 8 year old Victron inverter on it, which is still going strong.

 

As you broke two of their inverters, I expect you were just unlucky.

 

Has anyone else suffered more than one unreliable Victron inverter?

[Loafer]

Absolutely right.

 

The reason why high frequency inverters were adopted by industry was to make them smaller and lighter for a given power. The higher the frequency any wound device (like a coil or transformer) operated at the smaller it can be.

 

Cheaper inverters use thyristors rather than power transistors, which switch at lower (usually mains) frequencies, and thus required larger transformers.

 

I have used Victron UPSs commercially (150-1000kVA) when i was working and they have proven to be very reliable.

 

My boat has an 8 year old Victron inverter on it, which is still going strong.

 

As you broke two of their inverters, I expect you were just unlucky.

 

Has anyone else suffered more than one unreliable Victron inverter?

 

Maybe not on CWDF!

[steve hayes]

Absolutely right.

The reason why high frequency inverters were adopted by industry was to make them smaller and lighter for a given power. The higher the frequency any wound device (like a coil or transformer) operated at the smaller it can be.

Cheaper inverters use thyristors rather than power transistors, which switch at lower (usually mains) frequencies, and thus required larger transformers.

 

High frequency switching is how ALL modern and efficient power supplies / inverters work. Think back a few years (not too many) to remember how big and heavy a plug in phone charger was and then look at how reliable, small, light and cool your modern iPhone /android/ whatever charger is.

[Loafer]

Absolutely right.

The reason why high frequency inverters were adopted by industry was to make them smaller and lighter for a given power. The higher the frequency any wound device (like a coil or transformer) operated at the smaller it can be.

Cheaper inverters use thyristors rather than power transistors, which switch at lower (usually mains) frequencies, and thus required larger transformers.

 

High frequency switching is how ALL modern and efficient power supplies / inverters work. Think back a few years (not too many) to remember how big and heavy a plug in phone charger was and then look at how reliable, small, light and cool your modern iPhone /android/ whatever charger is.

 

They're not charged by AC though. It's much simpler to provide a low-voltage, low current, stable DC supply, innit?

[cuthound]

They're not charged by AC though. It's much simpler to provide a low-voltage, low current, stable DC supply, innit?

True, but switched mode power supplies enable much less copper to be used (smaller transformers and chokes), so cheaper to produce, hence their popularity.

[Justme]

 

I have a 3000 Watt Rich Electric low frequency inverter. It weighs 30 kgs.

 

Even on the cold setting, the inverter is incapable of running the washing machine because the slow-burn 300 Amp fuse burns every time I switch the machine on. The inverter will happily run an electric fire, so I don't think that it is to blame. Just a massive start-up current.

 

And no, I don't normally run electric fires from the inverter. That was just a test.

 

 

300amp fuse for a 3000 watt constant inverter seems low.

 

My Victron 3000Va needs a 400amp fuse.

[George94]

 

 

300amp fuse for a 3000 watt constant inverter seems low.

 

My Victron 3000Va needs a 400amp fuse.

 

You may well be right, but that is what the manufacturer recommends. That's interesting information regarding the fuse on your Victron. Perhaps I will try uprating mine.

[cuthound]

3000 watts at 12 volts is 250 amps. Even at the usually battery cut-off voltage of 10.5 volts 3000 watts is 286 amps, so 300 amps is fine.

 

Perhaps the Victron has an overload facility, and the larger fuse is to allow for this?

[Justme]

 

You may well be right, but that is what the manufacturer recommends. That's interesting information regarding the fuse on your Victron. Perhaps I will try uprating mine.

 

 

The victron does have a double peak output.

3000 watts at 12 volts is 250 amps. Even at the usually battery cut-off voltage of 10.5 volts 3000 watts is 286 amps, so 300 amps is fine.

 

Perhaps the Victron has an overload facility, and the larger fuse is to allow for this?

 

 

Can I have the inverter that you have that is 100% efficient?

[cuthound]

The victron does have a double peak output.

 

 

Can I have the inverter that you have that is 100% efficient?

The typical efficncy of a modern inverter will be better than 90%, so a 300 amp fuse is still there or thereabouts.

 

Also most nominal 3000 watt (3000VA) inverters are actually rated at 2500 watts.

[Justme]

Yes however I am sure that the fuse carries the full va amps.

 

If a 300a was ok then i am sure that Victron would spec one & not the 400a they do spec.

[George94]

Yes however I am sure that the fuse carries the full va amps.

 

If a 300a was ok then i am sure that Victron would spec one & not the 400a they do spec.

 

Having looked again at the instructions, I can't find any mention of 300 Amps for the fuse. Just the word "appropriate". The inverter had a 300 Amp fuse when I bought the boat and I must have dreamt that that was what was recommended.

 

Moral: Never assume.

 

Action: Buy a couple of 400 Amp fuses.

 

BTW, it says it is 83% efficient at full load, and consumes 4W in standby mode.

[smileypete]

If the inverter is pulling batt voltage down to 10.5V and is 80% efficient, then 3kW will pull around 360A from the batts.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited March 19, 2016 by smileypete