Yarwoods steel quality

[Pluto]

That's interesting.

I wonder if the British Isles Transprt "A" Shortboats and the Longboats (Ambush etc) on the L&L, were built using copper bearing steel, as they worked across the Mersey and had round Chines.

You could ask that of all the L&LC metal short boats, as they were expected to work in the docks and across to Birkenhead. Even ignoring the last three, which were in thinner high tensile steel, there does seem to be a difference between pre and post war boats. Of course, Low Moor Iron was historically the preferred material for boats, though the quality and composition of wrought irons can often be speculated on as well.

[John V]

In view of the comments in the list I found, as to being suitable only for gas shielded arc welding as opposed coated electrode arc welding.

Did Yarwoods use gas shielded welding as opposed to flux coated rods possibly for the speed of assembly and were then able to use special steels (for what ever other reason) that were not suitable for other yards still using conventional stick welding ?

Were Yarwoods a high volume yard that would have invested in the more costly equipment needed ?

[RLWP]

We are all learning as well as inputting our own knowledge.

 

I am not sure Richard wasn't right in terms of why this steel was used in this particular instance but generically copper-bearing steels do have increased strength, workability and corrosion resistance compared to standard low carbon mild steel.

 

It is entirely possible the use of copper-bearing steel was an empirical decision based on all three factors but if I had to put a fiver on any one of those singularly, based on the discussion above I would go with workability. Which means I don't necessarily agree with my own initial post on this subject!

 

JP

 

Do be aware that, like any of these alloys, copper improves the 'performance' of the steel only in small and controlled amounts. Too much copper in steel may reduce the desired characteristics which is why I linked to an article about removing copper from steel

 

Of course, the most bizarre alloying material requiring the closest control is carbon - and without carbon it's just iron

 

Richard

[jenevers]

there does seem to be a difference between pre and post war boats.

A difference in what respect?

In view of the comments in the list I found, as to being suitable only for gas shielded arc welding as opposed coated electrode arc welding.

Did Yarwoods use gas shielded welding as opposed to flux coated rods possibly for the speed of assembly and were then able to use special steels (for what ever other reason) that were not suitable for other yards still using conventional stick welding ?

Were Yarwoods a high volume yard that would have invested in the more costly equipment needed ?

I'm talking about the riveted boats? Edited February 20, 2016 by jenevers

[John V]

I'm talking about the riveted boats

 

In that case maybe they were using it because it was freely available as being unsuitable for use by other firms/industries who were welding

[gazza]

In view of the comments in the list I found, as to being suitable only for gas shielded arc welding as opposed coated electrode arc welding.

Did Yarwoods use gas shielded welding as opposed to flux coated rods possibly for the speed of assembly and were then able to use special steels (for what ever other reason) that were not suitable for other yards still using conventional stick welding ?

Were Yarwoods a high volume yard that would have invested in the more costly equipment needed ?

GMAW or Metal Active Gas welding (often incorrectly referred to as MIG where I is For Inert) as we refer to it was pioneered in the states in 1940. It was often called the CO2 process as that was the most commonly used shielding gas. I'm sure it didn't gain a good foothold in production use in the UK until the 50's.

 

Some interesting stuff on here http://www.weldinghistory.org/whfolder/folder/wh1900.html

[Pluto]

A difference in what respect?

IIRC, the pre-war boats are fully riveted, while post-war some of the plates are welded to form longer sections and then riveted onto the frames.

[pete harrison]

That's interesting.

I wonder if the British Isles Transprt "A" Shortboats and the Longboats (Ambush etc) on the L&L, were built using copper bearing steel, as they worked across the Mersey and had round Chines.

All of the boats built in the early to mid 1930's by W.J. Yarwood and Sons Ltd. for British Isles Transport Ltd. are described in their 'Yard Book' as being built of steel, i.e. no embellishment of detail apart from being a steel lighter or steel motor barge

[jenevers]

All of the boats built in the early to mid 1930's by W.J. Yarwood and Sons Ltd. for British Isles Transport Ltd. are described in their 'Yard Book' as being built of steel, i.e. no embellishment of detail apart from being a steel lighter or steel motor barge

Do you have a copy of their Yard Book?

GMAW or Metal Active Gas welding (often incorrectly referred to as MIG where I is For Inert) as we refer to it was pioneered in the states in 1940. It was often called the CO2 process as that was the most commonly used shielding gas. I'm sure it didn't gain a good foothold in production use in the UK until the 50's.

Some interesting stuff on here http://www.weldinghistory.org/whfolder/folder/wh1900.html

Thanks

 

Btw am I the only person on this forum who can see a hauntingly evil face in your avatar? Look at it from a distance, squint and a spooky face will become apparent!!!!

[gazza]

Do you have a copy of their Yard Book?

Thanks

 

Btw am I the only person on this forum who can see a hauntingly evil face in your avatar? Look at it from a distance, squint and a spooky face will become apparent!!!!

I'd never noticed that! Perhaps that's the root of our current malaise? Northampton Saints have had what you could call a stuttering campaign this year!

 

Forgot to mention, it's a sad fact that War, the mother of all invention as with many things helped push the advancement in welding.

Even Ti welding much used in the space race had the ulterior motive of flinging bigger ICBM at the Ruskies

Edited February 23, 2016 by gazza

[pete harrison]

Do you have a copy of their Yard Book?

Thanks

Yes

[jenevers]

Yes

Gasp! But how,why, when, where, who?

[pete harrison]

Gasp! But how,why, when, where, who?

It is freely available to see at Cheshire Records Office, although this is believed to be their 'best' version as I have also seen a very rough version in several different hands - and including further detail.

 

I also have a few other bits and pieces that some people find moderately interesting

[AMModels]

It is freely available to see at Cheshire Records Office, although this is believed to be their 'best' version as I have also seen a very rough version in several different hands - and including further detail.

 

I also have a few other bits and pieces that some people find moderately interesting

Now I undertsand the emoticon at the end of your posts Pete. Its for your status as Captain Understatement, 'few bits and pieces that some people find moderately interesting' indeed!!