RYA Recognised Training, Whats the point ?

[seaandland]

Top Lock Marina trained me, but seriously whats the point if it doesn’t mean anything, Joe Bloggs can get in a boat with no experience and smashes your boat to bits; he would then just walk away saying sorry. The day as come when you should have to pass a test to cruise.

[carlt]

Top Lock Marina trained me, but seriously whats the point if it doesn’t mean anything, Joe Bloggs can get in a boat with no experience and smashes your boat to bits; he would then just walk away saying sorry. The day as come when you should have to pass a test to cruise.

 

First of all if someone damages your boat you, and he should be insured.

 

How many boats a year are 'smashed to bits'? Owning boats of a more fragile disposition than usual, I am very aware of checking for damage following a collision. The only time, for many years, I have ever been damaged was when a hire boat broadsided my dawncraft in high winds and popped some rubbing strake screws. The hire company slipped my boat for me and I was on my way again.

 

How many people die as a result of bad boating practice each year? Not enough to warrant a driving test I imagine. Maybe we should all be Corgi registered though? That seems to be the greater danger.

[David Schweizer]

Top Lock Marina trained me, but seriously whats the point if it doesn’t mean anything, Joe Bloggs can get in a boat with no experience and smashes your boat to bits; he would then just walk away saying sorry. The day as come when you should have to pass a test to cruise.

Having undergone full Boatmaster Licence training and assessment,which does provide you with an employment qualification, I can see your point. However, it could be that in the event of an Insurance Company trying to wriggle out of an accident compensation claim on the grounds of incompetence, you could use the possession of the training as some evidence of assessed competence.

[John Orentas]

Top Lock Marina trained me, but seriously whats the point if it doesn’t mean anything, Joe Bloggs can get in a boat with no experience and smashes your boat to bits; he would then just walk away saying sorry. The day as come when you should have to pass a test to cruise.

 

 

Lets not go down that route, the people that will have to pay will be us. I do think the same as Carl that you are exaggerating the dangers, if you are talking about narrowboats they are much more robust than you may imagine.

 

Training and examinations never did anything to change peoples behaviour, it just makes the consequences cost more.

[Jon]

You are right in the sense that the RYA course is not a formal qualification, however as more and more people do it, the better the general skill base will become.

 

Clearly there aree those out and about who still have lots to learn (myself included) and sometimes the only real way is the hard way. The worst I've ever managed to do is scrape the blacking on the side of a boat. I've seen others do worse, but mostly it's not a problem.

 

 

Jon

[seaandland]

Points Taken,, But the point is,, Whats the point.

 

My mum said, never point..

[DHutch]

Tbh, im not sure what your trying to attcheave here sea&land, certainly i feel you have made a fairly poor followup post.

 

For my own thoughts, i have to admit im with the others.

- Cars, most cappable of speeds in excess of 100mph, and able to leave/join the roads at almost any point, are potentialy extreamly dangerous. And as such, i think its more than appropreate to have a compulsary driving test. To insure that if nothing else, everyone at some point has the very basic priciples of car handling, road safety, and road markings/signage/conventions.

 

However, a narrowboat that is contrained to a narrow ditch not usally wide enough to even turn in, and a top speed of around 5mph. Although still potentially dangerous, is realisticaly no in the same legue, or even close.

- Also, as somtime that people do far more as a hobbie than a daily nessessity. The damage of introducing such a scheme would be far more harmfull.

 

My 12 yearold brother happly helms our 58ft, 22tonne steam narrowboat frequently. All be it with loose supervison from more experienced or elder crew. As i did at a simular age.

- However, i wouldnt expect him to so the same in a car. Or have done a training course in boat skills.#

 

 

 

 

However, as for "what is the point", i guess the reason is really just because some people WANT to learn how to do it better.

- Like the "passplus" non-compusary element of our raod driving lessons issue.

 

I learnt a lot of my boating knowlage from my mum, and my grandfather. Both of which have been boating (narrow and other) for a great many years.

- But for thoughs not blessed with such reletives, the RYA training scheimes are a good introduction to some of the finer points of boat handling.

 

 

Or somthing like that.

 

 

 

Daniel

[Shazza]

Tbh, im not sure what your trying to attcheave here sea&land, certainly i feel you have made a fairly poor followup post.

 

For my own thoughts, i have to admit im with the others.

- Cars, most cappable of speeds in excess of 100mph, and able to leave/join the roads at almost any point, are potentialy extreamly dangerous. And as such, i think its more than appropreate to have a compulsary driving test. To insure that if nothing else, everyone at some point has the very basic priciples of car handling, road safety, and road markings/signage/conventions.

 

However, a narrowboat that is contrained to a narrow ditch not usally wide enough to even turn in, and a top speed of around 5mph. Although still potentially dangerous, is realisticaly no in the same legue, or even close.

- Also, as somtime that people do far more as a hobbie than a daily nessessity. The damage of introducing such a scheme would be far more harmfull.

 

My 12 yearold brother happly helms our 58ft, 22tonne steam narrowboat frequently. All be it with loose supervison from more experienced or elder crew. As i did at a simular age.

- However, i wouldnt expect him to so the same in a car. Or have done a training course in boat skills.#

However, as for "what is the point", i guess the reason is really just because some people WANT to learn how to do it better.

- Like the "passplus" non-compusary element of our raod driving lessons issue.

 

I learnt a lot of my boating knowlage from my mum, and my grandfather. Both of which have been boating (narrow and other) for a great many years.

- But for thoughs not blessed with such reletives, the RYA training scheimes are a good introduction to some of the finer points of boat handling.

Or somthing like that.

Daniel

 

I would like to do a similar course for my own benefit - so that I can feel more confident handling my own boat and to know that I'm less likely to cause damage or inconvenience to anyone else. As with driving a car, you cannot ever rely on other road users having the knowledge, experience and common sense to be as careful as you would like them to be, so you have to arm yourself with the experience and knowledge needed to anticipate other people's mistakes and have some strategy for for avoiding them.

[RobinR]

There is still value in the old saying "If you think training is expensive then try the lack of it"!

[John Orentas]

Informal training is one thing, but we all know that it will gradually turn into compulsion, in my few years of canal boating I have seen the pastime change from one with hardly any firm rules at all to one which is highly regulated with hundreds of little people all trying to make a living out of you. I have seen it happen before in other sports I have been involved with, scare stories of boats being "smashed to bits" by untrained loutish boaters and carbonised corpses being dragged out of boats on a weekly basis, we are already being fed this diet.

 

I believe many of you will live to regret this clamour for more and more regulation.

[Jon]

But the RYA course isn't about regulation. It's about givng new or inexperienced boaters the opportunity to learn boat handling skills, nothing more, nothing less. Also, the demographic of people using the waterways is much changed to how it used to be. More and more people are hiring from more and more different backgrounds therefore some rules need to be laid down so people know what the limits are, and those that act in an irresponsible or dangerous manner can be picked up on it for the benifit of all the other users...

 

 

Jon

[howardang]

My concern about the current RYA certificte is that it is mainly restricted to rudimentary boat handling, (and there's nothing wrong with that), but to my mind there is a need for something more. Many aspects of boating - etiquette, boat safety, gas, simple maintenance etc etc are not taught in the current course and there is an argument for an alternative which encompasses all the many aspects of boatmanship. It is evident from the number and range of questions which are asked on forums like this that there is a need for such a course.

 

Howard Anguish

[Jon]

I agree, there should be a 'boat owners course' too...

 

Jon

[Cafnod]

Fully agree with you John, about opening the door to regulation, and where such things lead. I find boating one of the few areas where I can escape it, although each year that escape from regulation is to a lesser extent as more regulations come along.

I have seen the same thing occur in the motorhome world where I was active for many years, owning motorhomes (self built and manufactured) up to 12 metres.

One only has to go to any yacht club and the first thing people wish to find out is ones position in the RYA evolutionary scale. There was quite a funny piece on this very topic in this months Practical Boat Owner.

Just to clarify matters about tuition I have held a class I LGV for a great many years, a car, motorcycle (both to IAM) licence and as a Travelling showman pulled up to three trailers, if they have not run out I also have somewhere, certificates for operating most kinds of plant as well.

However as Daniel has expressed it, boating is something one tends to pick up, we did some very basic boat handling with a friend and when they were seriously ill, had to go and move their boat the obligatory ten lock miles, this turned into nearly a five month cruise.

 

And yes accidents do happen, we were smacked rather badly by one hire boat twice in sucession last week, however all the courses in the world would not have helped, we were moored. The next day we were forced into bushes by another hire boat that was not properly controlled. I am not saying that it is just hire boats that do this, and most hire bases conduct BMF approved hand overs, which are to the highest industry standard.

 

I would also say, in all honesty when we cruised virtually constantly, three years ago,we good do just about anything with our narrowboat but certainly not now, when we dont use it very often. And, the enemy of the narrowboat that we could never overcome was wind.

Edited April 21, 2007 by Cafnod

[blackrose]

I believe many of you will live to regret this clamour for more and more regulation.

 

I don't think such a "clamour" really exists, but as the waterways become more crowded and traffic increases, so will that section of people on boats who aren't really interested & have no idea what they're doing. Then more accidents will occur and increased regulation is inevitable. I don't think you can move a boat in most of Europe without proof of some form of training and when visitors come to see me they're often amazed that I don't need any kind of licence to take my 30 tonne boat down the tidal Thames (apart from the recent VHF ruling of course).

 

As Daniel has said, boating is very safe compared to the roads, but locks are inherently dangerous places and some people using them don't seem to appreciate the hazards involved.

 

I don't want to see more regulation but it's bound to happen.

Edited April 22, 2007 by blackrose

[Cafnod]

Most of the European inland waterways are wider, deeper, full of commercial traffic and not safe places for narrowboats, there was an article in W/W a few years back on this very point, that is why the boats there require some sort of licencing in most cases. I think it is a bit like comparing the M1 to a footpath.

Compulsary licencing would strike a huge blow to the hire industry overnight, resulting in a considerable loss of revenue in commercial C & R licence fees to BW, together with the DEFRA cuts it might sound the death knell to some parts of the system.

[Canal Shop Man]

You are right in the sense that the RYA course is not a formal qualification, however as more and more people do it, the better the general skill base will become.

 

Clearly there aree those out and about who still have lots to learn (myself included) and sometimes the only real way is the hard way. The worst I've ever managed to do is scrape the blacking on the side of a boat. I've seen others do worse, but mostly it's not a problem.

Jon

Who checks the trainers? I have watched trainees pass by on one of these courses (by a company who shall remain nameless!) and the quality of the training is very poor.

[Cafnod]

If it is an RYA course I believe their position on the evolutionary scale is instructor examiner. The next one up is examiner examiner.

What they call the assesors of the examiners of the examiners I have no idea, possibly god?