Trojan T-105 battery charging tips

[WotEver]

 

For No3 Let's put to rest (because it's been suggested twice now) that it has anything to do with the battery's 'internal resistance'. If that were the case then a DMM, which draws microamps, would not see a reduction in the resting voltage.

[WotEver]

... there was apparently not one boater who would get on their bike, or in their car or even walk to help the OP, sad.

If we knew where Tommy was I'm sure someone would have helped in person; I know I would if he is local. He's been asked more than once where he is but has declined to respond.

 

If you'd spent more time reading posts and less time pontificating, scaremongering, point-scoring, and offering poor or just downright incorrect 'advice' you would have seen that it's very common for members of this forum to help each other out in person.

[Graham.m]

If we knew where Tommy was I'm sure someone would have helped in person; I know I would if he is local. He's been asked more than once where he is but has declined to respond.

 

If you'd spent more time reading posts and less time pontificating, scaremongering, point-scoring, and offering poor or just downright incorrect 'advice' you would have seen that it's very common for members of this forum to help each other out in person.

 

Interesting, I know exactly where he is, now for someone who does not spend enough time reading posts etc how did I achieve that using only used the information on the site. Somehow I must read.

 

Interestingly he is only about 120 miles from you when are you leaving or is that too far.

 

As for him not being online yesterday he was busy celebrating ongoing NYE with friends.

 

Sorry you do not impress me one little bit.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Graham.m

[WotEver]

 

Sorry you do not impress me one little bit.

See now, that's the difference between you and the rest of us. We're not trying to impress - just help.

 

By the way, if you think I'm in The Midlands, I'm not. I'm quite near the south coast where I am arranging matters for my mother who passed away on New Years Eve.

[Graham.m]

For No3 Let's put to rest (because it's been suggested twice now) that it has anything to do with the battery's 'internal resistance'. If that were the case then a DMM, which draws microamps, would not see a reduction in the resting voltage.

 

lol It shows how little you know about taking readings with any meter. The very action of introducing a meter into a circuit alters the circuit impedances/resistances etc. Thus the reading is always affected by the meter the amount is controlled by the input impedance of the meter, the higher the input impedance the less the affect or error.

 

Perhaps you would be brave enough to post your version of the answer to your Q3.

 

As to you version for Q1, tell us more and define your words "will gas"?

 

BTW why would a DMM " not see a reduction in the resting voltage."?

See now, that's the difference between you and the rest of us. We're not trying to impress - just help.

 

By the way, if you think I'm in The Midlands, I'm not. I'm quite near the south coast where I am arranging matters for my mother who passed away on New Years Eve.

 

My sincere condolences

 

May I suggest that this conversation is continued another day.

[MtB]

See now, that's the difference between you and the rest of us. We're not trying to impress - just help.

 

By the way, if you think I'm in The Midlands, I'm not. I'm quite near the south coast where I am arranging matters for my mother who passed away on New Years Eve.

 

 

My condolences. A difficult time of year.

 

At least she got to see Xmas, unlike my dad who passed recently too.

[nicknorman]

Sorry to hear that Tony, never a good time but it's worse over the festive season. My mum is 93 and still going strong but I know it's only a matter of time before I get "that" phone call.

[WotEver]

Thanks for the condolences guys but popping onto here now and again helps to stop me dwelling on things. I know every inch of the M1, M40, and M25 after travelling them daily for the last three weeks.

 

As for #3, it's actually a trick question as the answer is 'nobody knows'. You'll now think I'm talking nonsense but when I have a little longer to word a post I'll explain why. Anybody who says they do know is either bullshitting or they've missed some important chemical facts.

[MtB]

Thanks for the condolences guys but popping onto here now and again helps to stop me dwelling on things. I know every inch of the M1, M40, and M25 after travelling them daily for the last three weeks.

 

 

Totally understand that. An illness and death in the family turns your life upside down and keeping a hold onto the routine things (like logging on here) help one in a small way to hold on to 'normality', whatever that is! This was my experience anyway...

[tommyleyland]

My condolences too.

 

Apologies, I was away celebrating like its 1999 again.

 

I'm based in Maple for now until the end of February.

 

When it was showing 7amps I think a laptop was charging at the same time so that might answer the question.

I am recharging again today and it's showing 15.15v 100% on the Smartguage and showing 15.4v 4.8ahs on the charger.

[WotEver]

My condolences too.

 

Apologies, I was away celebrating like its 1999 again.

 

I'm based in Maple for now until the end of February.

 

When it was showing 7amps I think a laptop was charging at the same time so that might answer the question.

Happy New Year - I can't fault you. ?

 

Charging lappy at the same time - Sounds more like it. As I said at the time, it sounded like you had another load, with a constant 7A charge current. The SmartGauge readings were proving that you had got very close to 100% so nothing else made much sense.

 

Tony

I am recharging again today and it's showing 15.15v 100% on the Smartguage and showing 15.4v 4.8ahs on the charger.

If you can afford the fuel (and oil!) keep charging a while longer and see if you can get that current down to around 3.5A. By the way, it's 4.8A, not 4.8Ah.

 

Cheers

Tony

 

Totally understand that. An illness and death in the family turns your life upside down and keeping a hold onto the routine things (like logging on here) help one in a small way to hold on to 'normality', whatever that is! This was my experience anyway...

Alzheimer's is a vicious, cruel disease. In my mum's case it meant that we watched her effectively starve herself to death over the last few months. She looked like a skeleton when she finally passed.

[tommyleyland]

Happy New Year - I can't fault you. ?

 

Charging lappy at the same time - Sounds more like it. As I said at the time, it sounded like you had another load, with a constant 7A charge current. The SmartGauge readings were proving that you had got very close to 100% so nothing else made much sense.

 

Tony

 

If you can afford the fuel (and oil!) keep charging a while longer and see if you can get that current down to around 3.5A. By the way, it's 4.8A, not 4.8Ah.

 

Cheers

Tony

Ah ok thanks for the tip.

 

Yes I'll leave it going, I'm too hungover to pack it away anyway.

[Graham.m]

Ah ok thanks for the tip.

Yes I'll leave it going, I'm too hungover to pack it away anyway.

Good party then

[tommyleyland]

Haha not bad. Needed a release from staring at my batteries

[Graham.m]

Haha not bad. Needed a release from staring at my batteries

That does not surprise me:). Don't stare to much today. Just let them get on with it and let that current come down, the ideal is about 2.5A if the genny will let you get there.

 

Have a good day recovering

[Loafer]

The ideal can be more than that at Tommy's current charger settings of 15.1V.

 

2.5A would be ideal (1% of C20) if he was longer-term charging at 14.8 or less. He'll be a 'boater's 100% charged' with 5-6A at 15.1V

Edited January 2, 2016 by Loafer

[Loafer]

Tommy, welcome back with your hangover.

 

I do wish this thread had never started - you are now worried about stuff that you should have never been worried about.

 

Forget all the arguing and point-scoring at your expense. Most of it is nit-picking and silly. Just trust that your Trojans WILL gain capacity over a month or a few. We're ALL agreed on that.

 

Meanwhile, charge them as you think best, given all the posts above and the information available. You won't hurt 'em as long as you check the acid levels and don't let them discharge below 50% on yer gauge.

 

Happy New Year!

 

In a month or so, we'll go through a proper Equalisation charge using your Sterling and your genny.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Loafer

[Loafer]

Thanks for the condolences guys but popping onto here now and again helps to stop me dwelling on things. I know every inch of the M1, M40, and M25 after travelling them daily for the last three weeks.

 

As for #3, it's actually a trick question as the answer is 'nobody knows'. You'll now think I'm talking nonsense but when I have a little longer to word a post I'll explain why. Anybody who says they do know is either bullshitting or they've missed some important chemical facts.

 

I'll hold you to that, and not even attempt to look it up! Meanwhile, condolences on your loss. Mine was 2012.

[tommyleyland]

Tommy, welcome back with your hangover.

 

I do wish this thread had never started - you are now worried about stuff that you should have never been worried about.

 

Forget all the arguing and point-scoring at your expense. Most of it is nit-picking and silly. Just trust that your Trojans WILL gain capacity over a month or a few. We're ALL agreed on that.

 

Meanwhile, charge them as you think best, given all the posts above and the information available. You won't hurt 'em as long as you check the acid levels and don't let them discharge below 50% on yer gauge.

 

Happy New Year!

 

In a month or so, we'll go through a proper Equalisation charge using your Sterling and your genny.

Haha don't worry I'm not worried anymore. The more I know the more I can understand what's happening and how to properly fix it.

 

I have faith they'll gain more capacity and I'll stick to my clockwork charging regime.

 

I'll keep you updated with the progress, happy new year too!

[Graham.m]

1. The answer you were struggling to avoid is 13.5V

 

2. Yes. As I said, it was an easy question.

 

3. No.

 

Sorry I do not agree

[WotEver]

 

Sorry I do not agree

I didn't expect you to.

[WotEver]

 

 

 

I don't think you do, else you would have known that T105s arrive with only 70% capacity, that Trojan recommend a charging voltage of 14.8 and that is what you would be guiding people so they got the best out of the batteries not ignoring the specialists Trojan, engineers not salespeople. I find it interesting that your knowledge is so extensive about Trojan batteries you did not know those simple facts and fear someone who asked Trojan. The two of you cry is either he doesn't know or he googles. The art of being a good engineer is not to know it all but to know where to find it, check it and how to use the information.

 

As for real world experience I suspect I may have a bit more that either of you both at home and abroad

 

So for your benefit, BTW note he/she is an Engineer so will know what he/she is talking about

 

Facts anyone considering buying Trojan T105s should consider, they only arrive with 70 approx capacity, the recommended charging voltage is 14.8V the T105 takes of the order of 75 cycles to reach its advertised capacity arriving at 168Ah approx.

From: *******@trojanbattery.com

To: *********.com

Subject: Trojan Battery Contact

Date: **************

 

Hi,

Our T105 is rated at 225 amp hours. This is the 20 hour rating. The recommended charge voltage is 2.45 volts per cell or 14.8 volts for a 12 volt system. It takes about 75 cycles for our flooded batteries to reach their peak performance (capacity) but brand new batteries should provide around 70% of their peak capacity. For the T105, 70% of peak is about 168 amp hours.

 

Please let me know if you have other questions.

 

Have a Happy New Year,

 

***************

Technical Support Engineer

Trojan Battery Company

 

 

Are you willing to guarantee to every member of the forum your advice and pay for replacement batteries on failure?

Let's put this one to bed too.

 

Stacey Delzeit, a technical engineer at Trojan (note that I don't mask names) writes "The float voltage for our flooded batteries is 13.5 volts for a 12 volt system2.25 volts per cell. The higher voltage around 15.1 volts is the daily charge, and the equalization charge which should be performed monthly for 2 hours can be 15.5 volts."

 

So that simply confirms what we were saying, namely 14.8 or 15.1 are both 'about the correct voltage' for charging a T105.

 

Tony

[WotEver]

 

Oh, one other thing that you queried a while back. The same engineer confirmed my statement that T105s should be charged daily even if the discharge is shallow.

[Graham.m]

Let's put this one to bed too.

 

**********, a technical engineer at Trojan (note that I don't mask names) writes "The float voltage for our flooded batteries is 13.5 volts for a 12 volt system2.25 volts per cell. The higher voltage around 15.1 volts is the daily charge, and the equalization charge which should be performed monthly for 2 hours can be 15.5 volts."

 

So that simply confirms what we were saying, namely 14.8 or 15.1 are both 'about the correct voltage' for charging a T105.

 

Tony

 

Oh, one other thing that you queried a while back. The same engineer confirmed my statement that T105s should be charged daily even if the discharge is shallow.

 

Interesting that you did not post the email and you make the definite statement as to the source of the email I posted, I am aware of other support engineers at Trojan.

 

To me it is rude to publish the name of a person on any public forum without that person having the right to refuse.

 

The question I would like you to obtain the answer to from Trojan is how long a battery in continuous use on a liveaboard can be left before charging, assuming the DoD does not exceed 50%.

 

What you are suggesting is that Trojans that have been discharge to DoD 5% or 15% must be recharged every 24 hours or damage could ensue.

I didn't expect you to.

 

But then you have not posted your answers with proofs

Edited January 4, 2016 by Graham.m

[WotEver]

The question I would like you to obtain the answer to from Trojan is how long a battery in continuous use on a liveaboard can be left before charging, assuming the DoD does not exceed 50%.

That was more or less the question that I asked although I actually asked it in a more direct fashion. My question was "what is the minimum depth of discharge after which you would recommend a charge?" The response was to "charge them on a daily basis".

 

I haven't posted the entire email trail because there was much to-and-froing and it would be tedious for others to read as well as pointless.

 

I don't tell lies, I have stated verbatim what I was told by Trojan. Why would I do otherwise?

 

Tony