Warning of aggressive dog nr Calf Heath

[Loafer]

I just thought I'd post this under a new thread, so that others not involved with my 'Dog Attack' thread can take note.

 

Our dog was attacked yesterday by an average-sized, black and sable, long-haired German Shepherd dog (not bitch). Its owner was a 5'10" male of wiry/medium build, looked in his 60's, no2 crew cut hair with designer type beard, all silvery grey. Awful teeth (graveyard thing) huge gaps between each tooth, rather than 'some missing' and looked like he enjoyed the daily company of several pints of ale, but little else. A scruffy-ish but not totally down-and-out individual and was possibly a boater.

 

This all took place on the pathway between Deepmore Farm and Calf Heath Marina, near to Deepmore Bridge 75 on the Staffs and Worcs. Where that track crosses the canal.

 

The owner was quite offensive to Mrs Loafer, who was on 'Dog Watch' for that particular walk, and didn't identify himself to her.

 

If anyone comes across this guy, I have a message for him. Please PM me! Or even better, Name and Shame.

 

Thanks all

 

 

PS he claimed that he walked his dog there for 5 years without any problems. Must be a local. Watch out if you're a small-dog owner.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Loafer

[Jerra]

It would appear to me this dog was dangerously out of control as Mrs Loafer would I am sure have had "reasonable apprehension that it will injure" her. Thus making it an offence under the dangerous dogs act. In which case has it been reported to the police?

[Loafer]

It would appear to me this dog was dangerously out of control as Mrs Loafer would I am sure have had "reasonable apprehension that it will injure" her. Thus making it an offence under the dangerous dogs act. In which case has it been reported to the police?

 

I spent an hour on that with WMP earlier. They were not interested. Dog v Dog isn't a reportable offence, it seems. The GSD made no attempt to bite the missus (but then neither would I under most circumstances). They wouldn't take a report on the issue.

 

Thank you for the suggestion though!

[Starcoaster]

WMP? I may be missing that acronym.

And yes, dog on dog flaming well IS a DDA offence-don't be fobbed off. The local council may well have a dog officer/police person-try contacting them directly.

It doesn't matter that the dog didn't try to bite your misses-the attack on your dog is enough, as is the reasonable concern/fear that she herself might have got hurt trying to intervene.

I am fairly well up on all of this at the moment, as it looks like I may be going to court myself with the owner of one such dog soon.

Check out this section of the DDA, recently updated to re-define the term public:

 

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview

 

 

It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, such as:

• in a public place
• in a private place, eg a neighbour’s house or garden
• in the owner’s home

The law applies to all dogs.

Out of control

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

• injures someone
• makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:

• it attacks someone’s animal
• the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

Penalties

You can get an unlimited fine or be sent to prison for up to 6 months (or both) if your dog is dangerously out of control. You may not be allowed to own a dog in the future and your dog may be destroyed.

If you let your dog injure someone you can be sent to prison for up to 5 years or fined (or both). If you deliberately use your dog to injure someone you could be charged with ‘malicious wounding’.

If you allow your dog to kill someone you can be sent to prison for up to 14 years or get an unlimited fine (or both).

If you allow your dog to injure an assistance dog (eg a guide dog) you can be sent to prison for up to 3 years or fined (or both).

Edited November 1, 2015 by Starcoaster

[MtB]

If you go back to the site of the attack at the same time of day, you might well encounter the dog/owner as humans are creatures of habit.

 

Might be an idea to moor your boat somewhere else though as he possibly recognises it and avoids walking past.

[Jerra]

 

I spent an hour on that with WMP earlier. They were not interested. Dog v Dog isn't a reportable offence, it seems. The GSD made no attempt to bite the missus (but then neither would I under most circumstances). They wouldn't take a report on the issue.

 

Thank you for the suggestion though!

It is true that a dog v dog situation isn't a reportable offence but it is an offence to have a dog so dangerously out of control that an individual thinks (yes just thinks) they might be injured it doesn't have to try to bite. I wasn't suggesting reporting as a dog v dog I was suggesting that your wife must have had a serious worry that she may be bitten. If so it is an offence under the dangerous dogs act.

 

I am not saying that the police would take any action on your report but if you were the 5th 6th 7th who knows how many then they may do something.

 

From www.doglaw.co.uk

 

This part of the Dangerous Dogs Act applies to every single dog in England & Wales, no matter whether it is a pure bred dog, cross or a mongrel and regardless of its size.

This is a criminal offence which can be brought against the owner of a dog (and if different the person in charge of a dog) if a dog is dangerously out of control. The offence applies regardless of where the incident takes place — even if it in your own home or garden.

'Dangerously out of control' is defined as being 'on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person or assistance dog'.

 

My bold.

 

There have been plenty of cases where an attack on a dog is followed by an attack on the person.

 

This is from Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 Section 3 by the way.

[Starcoaster]

A dog vs. dog situation is a reportable offence in its own right, even without adding fear of attack to the owner, because the attacking dog is, by virtue of their attack iteself, dangerously out of control.

See the direct link to the Gov. website above that includes the latest amendments to the act.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Starcoaster

[Jerra]

A dog vs. dog situation is a reportable offence in its own right, even without adding fear of attack to the owner, because the attacking dog is, by virtue of their attack iteself, dangerously out of control.

See the direct link to the Gov. website above that includes the latest amendments to the act.

Thank you for the correction.

[Loafer]

WMP? I may be missing that acronym.

And yes, dog on dog flaming well IS a DDA offence-don't be fobbed off. The local council may well have a dog officer/police person-try contacting them directly.

It doesn't matter that the dog didn't try to bite your misses-the attack on your dog is enough, as is the reasonable concern/fear that she herself might have got hurt trying to intervene.

I am fairly well up on all of this at the moment, as it looks like I may be going to court myself with the owner of one such dog soon.

Check out this section of the DDA, recently updated to re-define the term public:

 

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview

 

 

Thank you for that SC. We have no idea who the guy is though. He buggered off, hurling abuse and some spit. That is a problem.

 

WMP - West Midlands Police.

 

I may soon be able to check this out further, but right now we're just happy that our poor little bugger is in good hands. Even if we have a case, we don't have any evidence of a crime - although there probably WAS one according to you guys.

 

Quite honestly, we're worn out now and I'm surrounding the best part of a bottle of wine. Being Sunday an' all. And no dog.

 

Mrs Loafer is quite tough, and wasn't about to pursue it with the owner. If it had been me, I would probably have done nothing more to exacerbate the situation either, except I maybe would've taken an iPhoto of his back as he went away.

 

I I was a big scary bloke, he would have been at the vet's along with our dog!

[Loafer]

Mrs L was never in fear of being attacked by the dog, she says. It wasn't that bad a dog. It just didn't like ours, who is well-known around our several 'home' areas, for being completely placid and fun. Can't convince anyone of that really - everyone's dog is delightful to their owners.

 

I wouldn't want the dog punished. I would like to trap the owner's delicate parts in an old fridge door but I'll be happy just dreaming about that tonight!

Starcoaster, when I'm suitably able to communicate with council admin staff with a hundred phone calls, I might have a go.

 

But it isn't going to happen until we've got him chasing tennis balls again - and I'm sober enough to throw them for him!

[Jerra]

I'll be happy just dreaming about that tonight!

Glad everything has turned out as well as could be hoped for. Enjoy your dreams :-))

[the barnacle]

i live just up the road and go along that section on my bike in the winter / with my dog or fishing with the kids, if i come across him i will let you know - and thanks for the info on the area wouldnt like to think what i would do if his dog had my lad,

[Loafer]

i live just up the road and go along that section on my bike in the winter / with my dog or fishing with the kids, if i come across him i will let you know - and thanks for the info on the area wouldnt like to think what i would do if his dog had my lad,

 

Good on you barnacle. Thanks. Just don't hit him or anything please! Just tell him he traumatised my dog and wife, whichever is which, and prevented me from going to the pub for the next eight weeks.

 

 

 

THEN hit him!

[alan_fincher]

Whilst the police may fail to show interest there should be some kind of Warden associated with a local council that does.

 

Assuming South Staffordshire covers the area, I can't actually find anything on their website about dangerous dog reports, but this document relating to strays does give this phone number for the Dog Warden Service.

 

Dog Warden Service
Telephone: (01902) 696000

 

Worth a call, because in our experience they are more likely to acta if a number of complaints are received about the same dog, and they may already have "previous" recorded against this one.

[Loafer]

Whilst the police may fail to show interest there should be some kind of Warden associated with a local council that does.

 

Assuming South Staffordshire covers the area, I can't actually find anything on their website about dangerous dog reports, but this document relating to strays does give this phone number for the Dog Warden Service.

 

Dog Warden Service

Telephone: (01902) 696000

 

Worth a call, because in our experience they are more likely to acta if a number of complaints are received about the same dog, and they may already have "previous" recorded against this one.

 

Alan

 

I gather from my call to the police that I should contact the 'kind soul'. ('Council', with a Wolverhampton accent?)

 

Trouble is we're off up the Shroppie as soon as we can get out of here, and we're now behind schedule for a meeting with some boaty chums up there. Of course that's not important, if our boy is tits up.

 

I'm really saying that we'll end up not being 'arsed', once we get our boy back, and we'll 'deep-six' the whole issue.

 

Thank you for the links though. I may well use them when able to think properly again. What time is it now? Blimey! It's still early! Soon Mrs Loafer will have 2 casualties on her hands!

[Mrs Trackman]

There's a certain long narrow boat which is often on the trent and Mersey between great haywood and fradley - though I've seen it in many places, that has a very large, scary (to me) dog running up and down the tow path. I'm no dog expert but it looks to me like a rottweiller (?). I imagine it's owner would say it's a lovable friendly dog and it may well be but I find it very scary. I also imagine dogs like to roam freely but should dogs be loose on tow path?

[Loafer]

Glad everything has turned out as well as could be hoped for. Enjoy your dreams :-))

 

Ta mate.

There's a certain long narrow boat which is often on the trent and Mersey between great haywood and fradley - though I've seen it in many places, that has a very large, scary (to me) dog running up and down the tow path. I'm no dog expert but it looks to me like a rottweiller (?). I imagine it's owner would say it's a lovable friendly dog and it may well be but I find it very scary. I also imagine dogs like to roam freely but should dogs be loose on tow path?

 

Whoo that's a whole new subject!

 

Probably not, in the true definition of being 'under control'. I, however, am guilty of having a dog that doesn't HAVE a lead, except one that we use occasionally for pubs that insist on them. His 'lead' is me. If I whistle, he's by my heel. Sheep or not, he's not interested in them in the slightest. We had THAT discussion when he was about 2 1/2.

 

I don't know the boat you describe, sorry.

[Loafer]

If you go back to the site of the attack at the same time of day, you might well encounter the dog/owner as humans are creatures of habit.

 

Might be an idea to moor your boat somewhere else though as he possibly recognises it and avoids walking past.

 

He never knew we were boaters. Never saw him walk past our boat. But I like the way you're thinking!

 

If only I had both the time and the stature!

[Loafer]

If you go back to the site of the attack at the same time of day, you might well encounter the dog/owner as humans are creatures of habit.

 

Might be an idea to moor your boat somewhere else though as he possibly recognises it and avoids walking past.

Sorry MtB I missed this one.

 

It did cross our minds to go and lie in wait for him nearby. Mrs L wasn't interested, preferring to move away and forget about him, which we are doing. She was of the opinion that it would only cost us lots of time and end up coming to nothing, because he was completely belligerent and insisted that our dog started it. I would like to throttle the f*^@£Er but I'm nowhere near 'ard enough!

[Loafer]

i live just up the road and go along that section on my bike in the winter / with my dog or fishing with the kids, if i come across him i will let you know - and thanks for the info on the area wouldnt like to think what i would do if his dog had my lad,

 

If you do come across him, perhaps you could pass on my views? I'm sure you know what they are. His dog gave us a very poorly and subdued dog, a distressed wife, and over £700 including £60 on taxi fares. His dog just walked away with him, totally unscathed apart from a hefty kick in the side from Mrs L. There'll be another £30 in taxis tomorrow to have his drain removed.

 

Thanks barnacle

 

Whilst the police may fail to show interest there should be some kind of Warden associated with a local council that does.

 

Assuming South Staffordshire covers the area, I can't actually find anything on their website about dangerous dog reports, but this document relating to strays does give this phone number for the Dog Warden Service.

 

Dog Warden Service

Telephone: (01902) 696000

 

Worth a call, because in our experience they are more likely to acta if a number of complaints are received about the same dog, and they may already have "previous" recorded against this one.

 

Thanks Alan - I rang that number and they aren't interested either. They say there's nothing they can do since we don't have a name and address. Even then, they were only going to write to him - but they can't.

 

They suggested I rang the police, but it was the police that suggested I ring the council.

 

All very unsatisfactory. If this GSD now gets a taste for nibbling on smaller dogs, and then perhaps escalates to small children, there doesn't seem to be a darned thing I can do about it!

 

Short of organising a vigilante group, I'm out of ideas.

 

To all those of you who took the time to find relevant bits of law, I agree with you all and I have read them myself. It seems that any process would require the co-operation of the dog owner. That was never going to happen here. Ho hum. I'm nearly as sore as our dog.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Loafer

[Barry]

Perhaps a letter to the local MP - and the local Chief Constable, pointing out that the police are being selective in how they interpret the guidance?

[Loafer]

There's a certain long narrow boat which is often on the trent and Mersey between great haywood and fradley - though I've seen it in many places, that has a very large, scary (to me) dog running up and down the tow path. I'm no dog expert but it looks to me like a rottweiller (?). I imagine it's owner would say it's a lovable friendly dog and it may well be but I find it very scary. I also imagine dogs like to roam freely but should dogs be loose on tow path?

 

No, not really, but this wasn't on the towpath. We never use a lead, because he will come to heel with a short whistle, and we keep him in sight. He is very obedient. Being on a lead would not have helped this situation, because the offending dog was not - and it therefore had the freedom to attack.

Perhaps a letter to the local MP - and the local Chief Constable, pointing out that the police are being selective in how they interpret the guidance?

 

Thanks Barry. If I thought it would help, maybe I would. But it will only serve to keep us here even longer. Fortunately we had JUST gone past an imminent stoppage at Gailey, or else we'd have been a bit schtuck.

[valrene9600]

Ring the police who say ring the council and round in circles you go. The police would only send a letter, mind boggling. No wonder people just deal out their own justice. The victim it seems matters less and less. He deserves a good slap, a real good slap.

[Loafer]

Ring the police who say ring the council and round in circles you go. The police would only send a letter, mind boggling. No wonder people just deal out their own justice. The victim it seems matters less and less. He deserves a good slap, a real good slap.

 

If I had had the power, he would have had one!

 

ETA: 3'had's in the same sentence. That can't be right.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Loafer

[madcat]

If the police don't deal with things properly it leaves an opening for rough justice . Not recommended and with plenty of scope for error