RCD certificate, outstanding mortgage

[Kernowdog]

Thanks Martin,

 

 

there is no clause about recompense,

[Guest]

Thanks Martin,

 

 

there is no clause about recompense,

Let us be totally clear here. I am talking about the agreement I signed with a reputable broker when I sold our boat.

 

You are a buyer, the agreement you will enter into when you make an offer is different from the agency agreement someone selling enters into with the broker.

 

Why not ask your broker for sample copies of both?

Edited October 4, 2015 by MJG

[rustydiver]

A reputable broker will do their best to ensure the ownership of a boat. They will also include a clause in the agreement with the seller that if it transpires the seller doesn't have the right to sell they will be pursued for recompense..

We have looked at a few boats and the last two brokers have told us that they will not offer a boat up for sale untill they have proof off ownership.

[Alan de Enfield]

We have looked at a few boats and the last two brokers have told us that they will not offer a boat up for sale untill they have proof off ownership.

 

I wonder what they consider to be 'proof of ownership' ?

 

As far as I am aware, in the UK, the only document that actually proves ownership (title) is the Small Ships Register (SSR) Part 1.

 

The commonly used SSR Part 3 does not prove Title, purely country of registration.

 

There may well be some but I don't think I have ever seen an SSR registered Narrowboat, but, it is fairly common on Motor Cruisers.

 

Any eligible pleasure craft owner can apply to register under Part I of the UK Ship Register. The advantages of Part I registration is that you can:

• prove title to your boat
• prove your boat’s nationality
• use the boat as security to obtain a marine mortgage
• obtain ‘Transcripts of Registry’, which show the boat’s previous owners and whether there are any outstanding mortgages

Part I registration costs £124. To be eligible you need to be one of the following:

• British Citizen
• British Dependent Territories Citizen
• British Overseas Citizen
• company incorporated in one of the EEA countries
• citizen of an EU member state exercising rights under articles 48 or 52 of the EU Treaty in the UK
• company incorporated in any British overseas possession which have its principal place of business in the UK or those possessions
• European Economic Interest Groupings

Part III is a simple and cheap form of registration that proves a boat’s nationality.

If your pleasure craft is under 24 metres you can register with Part III of the UK Ship Register.

Registration costs £25.

 

Eligibility to register

In order to be eligible, all owners must be resident in the UK for 185 days of the year and be one of the following:

• British Citizen
• non-UK citizens exercising their EU right of freedom of movement or worker’s right for establishment
• British Dependent Territories Citizen
• British Overseas Citizen
• British subject under the British Nationality Act 1981
• British National (overseas) under Hong Kong (British Nationality) Order 1986
• Commonwealth Citizen not falling within this list

Part III registration is not for:

• companies
• fishing vessels
• submersible ships
• boats 24 metres or over in length

[Murflynn]

The only proof of ownership that most sellers will have is the receipt from the previous seller, possibly accompanied by a short statement of the matter of the sale..

[Alan de Enfield]

The only proof of ownership that most sellers will have is the receipt from the previous seller, possibly accompanied by a short statement of the matter of the sale..

 

My point exactly.

Where is the 'proof of ownership' from the previous seller, or the one previous to him.

 

I could accept that a receipt from the manufacturer to MrX is a proof of ownership, but unless there is then a receipt from Mr X to MrY, to MrZ, then the trail is lost.

 

Brokers have no more ability to determine proof of ownership that the man in the street does, they purely rely on a statement to that effect from the seller.

 

Mind you - even a car's V5 (Log Book) states "this is not a proof of ownership" but we buy cars quite happily.

 

Typical clauses from a brokers contract :

 

1.1. The following original Documents shall be prepared by the Seller and held by the Broker in advance of Completion and shall be delivered to the Purchaser on Completion;

1.1.1. The Builders Certificate and Bill of Sale and all subsequent Bills of Sale in the Seller’s possession relating to the Vessel;

1.1.2. A properly executed Bill of Sale relevant to the Purchaser in favour of the Purchaser or his nominee;

1.1.3. The Certificate of Registry in respect of the Vessel, if applicable;

1.1.4. Evidence by way of original or true copy documents, which have been certified as a true copy by practising lawyer, regarding the VAT status of the Vessel including Builder’s invoices, evidence of VAT payment and dates of arrival in the European Community;

1.1.5. Evidence of compliance with the Recreational Craft Directive;

1.1.6. An express written declaration by the Seller that at the moment of Completion and delivery to the Purchaser the Vessel is free of all debts, claims and charges of every kind;

1.1.7. Where the Seller is a company, certified true copies of the corporate authorities approving this Agreement and appointing the signatories for the Bill of Sale;

1.1.8. Any delivery order or authority necessary to enable the Purchaser to take immediate possession of the Vessel; and

1.1.9. Where applicable, an undertaking shall be given by the Seller to the Buyer to delete any Registry entry pertaining to the Vessel

Edited October 4, 2015 by Alan de Enfield

[valrene9600]

Why not provide a link to the sale. Folk on here might be able to help further either on the forum or by personal message if perhaps they know the boat.

[ditchcrawler]

In my honest opinion if a broker was honest he would never allow him or herself to be in a position to sell a boat fraudulently, they should be 100% sure of the ownership prior marketing but then what do I know.

There is no way a broker can be 100% unless he owned the boat himself from new. I could turn up to a broker with my boat, show the bill of sale when I bought it, receipts for the past few years but it could still have been stolen and resold 3 or 4 owners back.

 

 

I wonder what they consider to be 'proof of ownership' ?

 

As far as I am aware, in the UK, the only document that actually proves ownership (title) is the Small Ships Register (SSR) Part 1.

 

The commonly used SSR Part 3 does not prove Title, purely country of registration.

 

There may well be some but I don't think I have ever seen an SSR registered Narrowboat, but, it is fairly common on Motor Cruisers.

 

Any eligible pleasure craft owner can apply to register under Part I of the UK Ship Register. The advantages of Part I registration is that you can:

• prove title to your boat
• prove your boat’s nationality
• use the boat as security to obtain a marine mortgage
• obtain ‘Transcripts of Registry’, which show the boat’s previous owners and whether there are any outstanding mortgages

Part I registration costs £124. To be eligible you need to be one of the following:

• British Citizen
• British Dependent Territories Citizen
• British Overseas Citizen
• company incorporated in one of the EEA countries
• citizen of an EU member state exercising rights under articles 48 or 52 of the EU Treaty in the UK
• company incorporated in any British overseas possession which have its principal place of business in the UK or those possessions
• European Economic Interest Groupings

If I was to register my boat as part 1 how would I prove to the register that I am the legal owner at time of registration.?

[Alan de Enfield]

 

If I was to register my boat as part 1 how would I prove to the register that I am the legal owner at time of registration.?

 

No idea - never done a Part 1 registration.

 

I imagine a copy of the 'VAT Paid' certificate and the original builders certificates and bill of sale would help, but, TBH - haven't got a clue.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Hi,

 

Sorry if this has been covered before but I can't find what I'm looking for using the search function.

 

I'm in the process of buying our first narrowboat and have just recieved the paperwork from the broker and am very confuse about two points

 

1) Where the boat falls under the EU Recreational Craft Directive, it will be self certified by the builder and it is therefore impossible for any broker to guarantee that a craft actually complies. It then goes on about how we need to make sure it does.

 

Surely the vendor has to make sure of this before they can legally sell the boat? and is it a certificate the vendor/broker should be able to produce prior to purchase?

Roger

 

 

 

You have had lots of advice, and some of it good *Ally* . But if you wish to read it from the horses mouth so to speak, this is one of the best resources ever for anybody considering buying a boat http://www3.hants.gov.uk/tradingstandards/tradingstandards-recreational-craft.htm indeed anyone selling a boat too.

[matty40s]

Paper trail and license would be a good start

License is NO proof of ownership, I could rent a boat out and get the tenants to license it themselves.

The brokers with the best reputations on the cut cannot guarantee debt free ownership, but they do provide protection if their searches do not reveal some hidden aspect. Both Abnb and RugbyBoatSales give you a letter of assurance - with a statement outlining the limits of what they can achieve