Shortage of Calor Propane

[Alan Saunders]

My local distributer, Catley's in Devizes had no 13Kg propane Calor cylinders available today. Apparently they have had 120 plus on back order for a few weeks and it is rumored that a tanker has now left for the UK to resolve the problem.

 

6Kg propane cylinders were available but Calor do not allow the exchange of a 13Kg for a 6Kg cylinder even though I would want to swap it back when 13Kg cylinders became available. An alternative was to rent/buy a 6Kg cylinder for £40 + contents at £20+, 70% of the purchase charge being refundable on return of the cylinder with the appropriate certificate.

 

Fortunately, a local garage had just one 13kg cylinder but at a much higher price (£35.99) than I normally pay (£23.50) which should last me for a month. Otherwise the food that I have in the gas 'fridge would have to have been discarded within a day or two.

 

It is often advised that boats should have alternative forms of heating; as well as gas I have a solid fuel and a diesel heater but my only oven and 'fridge are gas powered. My cooking may now be limited to the solid fuel and diesel stove-top, BBQ and a camping stove.

 

Be aware that the availability of bottled gas is not assured, this is not the first time that Calor propane has been unavailable. By all means buy a spare cylinder now but please do not cause a further crisis by buying all the supplies that you can find.

 

Alan

[Alan de Enfield]

Carry a regulator for butane (the blue ones), there is no reason why you shouldn't use either / or (apart from Butane feezing up at higher temps than propane)

 

Swap your 'red' for a 'blue'- job sorted!!

[MtB]

Carry a regulator for butane (the blue ones), there is no reason why you shouldn't use either / or (apart from Butane feezing up at higher temps than propane)

 

Swap your 'red' for a 'blue'- job sorted!!

 

 

Beat me to it!!

[GoodGurl]

yeah what he said ^^^^^^^

[MtB]

yeah what he said ^^^^^^^

 

 

However, doesn't get around the problem of not having an empty blue bottle in the first place.

[bassplayer]

If propane and butane can be interchanged or even mixed, how come they don't use the same regulator connections? (probably a daft question)

[Alan de Enfield]

We can & do swap empty reds for full blues, and vice-versa at our local calor dealer.

[Guest]

If propane and butane can be interchanged or even mixed, how come they don't use the same regulator connections? (probably a daft question)

Because you need a regulator for both.

 

The exchange policy is based principally on cylinder size not type of regulator needed.

[GoodGurl]

you should also be able to swap a 13kg for a 6kg then back again.

[nicknorman]

If propane and butane can be interchanged or even mixed, how come they don't use the same regulator connections? (probably a daft question)

Pending an answer from someone who actually knows, I think it is because the gas pressures needed are different for the two gasses.

[Guest]

you should also be able to swap a 13kg for a 6kg then back again.

By 'should' do you mean that would be logical or do you mean you are allowed to within their hire agreement?

 

If the latter you are incorrect.

[GoodGurl]

By 'should' do you mean that would be logical or do you mean you are allowed to within their hire agreement?

 

If the latter you are incorrect.

i suppose that depends on your distributer

[Guest]

i suppose that depends on your distributer

Yes of course there are some who will interchange between groups however you then risk not having a cylinder of choice if someone won't swap you back.

 

I was referring to what Calor state.

[Stormbringer]

Pending an answer from someone who actually knows, I think it is because the gas pressures needed are different for the two gasses.

 

 

Is the correct answer !

 

37mb for Propane in the red bottles

30mb for Butane in the blue bottles

 

IIRC Butane has a higher calorific value (volumetric) and so requires less pressure to the appliances to give the same thermal output (kWh)

 

On caravans now they just use a bulkhead regulator set at 30mb for both fuels so I don't know how much affect the difference has in 'real life' ....

 

Cheers

Andy

[Guest]

Is the correct answer !

 

37mb for Propane in the red bottles

30mb for Butane in the blue bottles

 

IIRC Butane has a higher calorific value (volumetric) and so requires less pressure to the appliances to give the same thermal output (kWh)

 

On caravans now they just use a bulkhead regulator set at 30mb for both fuels so I don't know how much affect the difference has in 'real life' ....

 

Cheers

Andy

And we get a nice easy to screw on by hand cylinder connector too.....no spanner required.

 

I realise now why boaters don't get the same convenience...

[MtB]

 

 

Is the correct answer !

 

37mb for Propane in the red bottles

30mb for Butane in the blue bottles

 

IIRC Butane has a higher calorific value (volumetric) and so requires less pressure to the appliances to give the same thermal output (kWh)

 

On caravans now they just use a bulkhead regulator set at 30mb for both fuels so I don't know how much affect the difference has in 'real life' ....

 

Cheers

Andy

 

Yes the two gasses run at different pressures here in the UK.

 

But the 30mb thing for both is interesting. I've heard this mentioned before. Apparently it's the norm sur le continent, and being adopted here too.

 

Especially interesting as I renewed my LPG for Boats qualification earlier this year and I asked about this, to be told they know nothing about it which is odd, as they are usually right on the money with new developments. Time was short of the training course and I couldn't find any authoritative reference to it on the day so I had to let it drop.

[Stormbringer]

And we get a nice easy to screw on by hand cylinder connector too.....no spanner required.

 

I realise now why boaters don't get the same convenience...

 

Yes - the hand wheel fittings are nice !

However they are the same thread in the propane bottle valve (as the 13kg ones)so could possibly be used on a boat set up - the different 'ends' are only on the bottle end of the HP pigtails, the regulator end is common to all types....

Most butane cylinders (certainly in the caravan sizes) have those push fit and lock type of fittings at the bottle but again the regulator end is the same as the propane

 

Cheers

Andy

[Stormbringer]

 

Yes the two gasses run at different pressures here in the UK.

 

But the 30mb thing for both is interesting. I've heard this mentioned before. Apparently it's the norm sur le continent, and being adopted here too.

 

Especially interesting as I renewed my LPG for Boats qualification earlier this year and I asked about this, to be told they know nothing about it which is odd, as they are usually right on the money with new developments. Time was short of the training course and I couldn't find any authoritative reference to it on the day so I had to let it drop.

 

The adoption of the (as you correctly say) European Standard has been in force in this country (along with the standardised 30mb regulator) since 2003 !

So hardly a new development ! ALL new caravans built in the UK have had this set up since 2003 / 2004

 

Cheers

Andy

[MtB]

Weird. I was doing LPG for boats and for park homes. Caravans are a closely related but different qualification I don't hold.

 

Maybe the trainer was in denial as he could see the amount of time that would get wasted on an irrelevant side issue if he allowed discussion of it to commence!

[Stormbringer]

Weird. I was doing LPG for boats and for park homes. Caravans are a closely related but different qualification I don't hold.

 

Maybe the trainer was in denial as he could see the amount of time that would get wasted on an irrelevant side issue if he allowed discussion of it to commence!

 

Very likely ! Especially if its getting on for beer o'clock !!

 

 

Edited to apologise to the Alan (the OP) for the slight derailment OT !

Edited August 26, 2015 by Stormbringer

[Nige G]

 

 

However, doesn't get around the problem of not having an empty blue bottle in the first place.

Plenty on eBay for a fiver or thereabouts.

[blackrose]

There's no shortage of 13kg calor propane in my area. So if the OP has a car or knows someone with a car, perhaps another solution is to go elsewhere to buy it.

[cotswoldsman]

No shortage on River Avon for £21.50

[gazza]

From the calor site.....

 

Cylinder exchange policy

 

The handy diagram below is to help you understand which gas bottles you are eligible to exchange for your empty one. It is free of charge, if you already have a Cylinder Refill Agreement.

 

Show less

 

There are five gas bottle groups as shown below. You can exchange a gas bottle within the group, without having to pay for an extra Cylinder Refill Agreement. If you wish to exchange your gas bottle, for a bottle in another group, then your purchase will be subject to an extra Cylinder Refill Agreement at an additional cost shown in table below. To exchange a gas bottle online, please visit the gas bottle section of our online shop and your local Calor stockist will deliver your order, direct to your door.

 

http://www.calor.co.uk/gas-bottles/buying-gas-bottles/gas-refills-exchanges-returns

 

If you can't be arsed to click the link The groups of interest to most are:-

 

A = 4.5kg butane/3.9kg propane

 

B = 7kg butane/6kg propane

 

D = 15kg butane/13kg propane

[mark99]

I would imagine the wobbe index of the gasses differs hence to maintain same heat in given flame and to ensure flame stability in a given orifice, the pressure is reduced.

Edited August 27, 2015 by mark99