Winter Moorings 2015 / 2016.

[cotswoldsman]

I am a CCer (although doubtless not 'proper' or 'genuine' in the eyes of many here as I don't CC in order to do as many miles as possible over the course of the year and instead gently bumble around so I don't see it as tiring).

 

 

 

That's fine but as we say we are all different

[matty40s]

Winter stoppages will start on November 2nd and run to mid March with a 2 week break for Christmas.

So CRTs Winter is longer for maintenance than it is for boaters.

 

Ground as hard as rock has never affected my boating, ice has though.

[churchward]

I think the bit you are missing for those that want to move every month is the fact that you are in that case only paying for 14 days. So for example if they are priced at the same as last year you are paying about £100 to moor for 14 days. The great thing about the last year's moorings is you had complete flexibility so you could maybe stop in one place for 5 weeks the next for 7 weeks etc.

I see the point. It is a pity they haven't allowed more flexibility in the length of time in one place say in 1 week blocks at least rather than 1 month blocks if I have understood it correctly.

[Jambo]

That's fine but as we say we are all different

 

Indeed we are but I would suggest that if a continuous cruiser needs 5 months off in a year then it might be worth starting to take things a bit easier when cruising.

 

5 months of winter moorings has probably been a significant contributor to the congestion situation in London so paring it back is a good thing imo. C&RT have gone much further though and pushed all WMs way out (Greenford and Enfield are the most central). It'll be an interesting winter in London if these proposals stay as they are.

[cotswoldsman]

I see the point. It is a pity they haven't allowed more flexibility in the length of time in one place say in 1 week blocks at least rather than 1 month blocks if I have understood it correctly.

Not sure about 1 week blocks as during the winter VM's change to 14 days by default. So my point was you can do 14 days anyway so what you are paying for is another 14 days. For most boaters they have to move every 14 days for water anyway so why not just move to another VM or wherever. Just move the required 1 km, just don't forget your ruler.

Indeed we are but I would suggest that if a continuous cruiser needs 5 months off in a year then it might be worth starting to take things a bit easier when cruising.

 

5 months of winter moorings has probably been a significant contributor to the congestion situation in London so paring it back is a good thing imo. C&RT have gone much further though and pushed all WMs way out (Greenford and Enfield are the most central). It'll be an interesting winter in London if these proposals stay as they are.

 

Look if you don't like winter moorings that is fine by me but a lot did though from what I am seeing on Facebook a lot that took them last year are not going to bother this year, the result being you end up with the same number of boats but less income.

[churchward]

Not sure about 1 week blocks as during the winter VM's change to 14 days by default. So my point was you can do 14 days anyway so what you are paying for is another 14 days. For most boaters they have to move every 14 days for water anyway so why not just move to another VM or wherever. Just move the required 1 km, just don't forget your ruler.

I meant that 1 week blocks (or rather multiples of) would allow what you said was useful last year staying for 5 or 7 weeks as per your example. Indeed if someone (as I pointed out in the first place) wants to move more often then they have 14 days anyway and no need for a WM.

[Jambo]

No I think they're a good idea by and large as at certain times of the year it would be pretty miserable to have to move every two weeks. My point is simply that 5 months might be excessive and has probably contributed to issues in some parts of the network.

[cotswoldsman]

I meant that 1 week blocks (or rather multiples of) would allow what you said was useful last year staying for 5 or 7 weeks as per your example. Indeed if someone (as I pointed out in the first place) wants to move more often then they have 14 days anyway and no need for a WM.

Ok I understand. As the WM are now site specific I think the administration would be a nightmare you might as well go back to the roving ones but I guess time will tell a good test for our new customer service manager to see if he can manage to keep the rather easy revenue stream anywhere close to last year.

[GUMPY]

Surely leisure boaters that CC will be able to leave their boats for the whole period, on payment of the fee, rather than just dumping them.......

[cotswoldsman]

No I think they're a good idea by and large as at certain times of the year it would be pretty miserable to have to move every two weeks. My point is simply that 5 months might be excessive and has probably contributed to issues in some parts of the network.

What issues would that be?

Surely leisure boaters that CC will be able to leave their boats for the whole period, on payment of the fee, rather than just dumping them.......

Yes that is correct

[Jambo]

As mentioned above, congestion in London. Not having to move for 5 months of the year makes living afloat even more attractive to those that don't want to move much.

[cotswoldsman]

As mentioned above, congestion in London. Not having to move for 5 months of the year makes living afloat even more attractive to those that don't want to move much.

Ah ok will bow to your knowledge not sure if I like being classed as someone who does not move much but hey ho. I guess we all need to follow your fine example

[Tuscan]

Have you looked at the list of proposed sites?

 

There really aren't that many, and those there are often have a lot of locks in between.

 

Presumably any particular site can only be booked for entire calendar month(s) (???) and, if so, you would actually be paying for either the site you have left, or the one you are moving to, for the days you spend getting from one to the other, thereby reducing any benefit you might get from having a mooring booked.

 

As you say, lets wait and see, but I predict very low take up, unless priced far more cheaply than previously, (in which case they will then need to sell far more, to cover the costs of running the scheme).

 

The truth still remains that they have capitulated to pressure from others to scrap a scheme that was so much better - a sorry day for boaters.

My understanding is that pricing is likely to be similar to last year and that the locations were chosen largely based on where those that took them were sighted last year, presumably taking account of any complaints received.

[churchward]

Have you looked at the list of proposed sites?

Yes I have. I thought there were quite few.

 

 

There really aren't that many, and those there are often have a lot of locks in between.

 

That's canals for ya all them pesky hills needing locks to negotiate! If folk don't wish to move they can stay for the whole period as I understand it.

Edited July 7, 2015 by churchward

[alan_fincher]

I think I give up!

 

My understanding, having chatted to many who have taken the General Towpath permit in recent times, is that they like the continued flexibility of being able to chose where they moor, (subject to the restrictions imposed by the T&Cs), but lifted from the requirement to move after 14 days.

 

They have indicated they would not want to stay at prescribed locations for fixed times.

 

If the pricing this winter for fixed locations is as high as it has been in previous years, then I genuinely see no reason why take up will not be equally low.

 

The only other thing that may increase take up is if CRT further ramp up enforcement, and continue to harass people because they have not moved as far as whatever CRT's latest dreamed up version of the "rules" now is.

 

They will still have lost a lot of income though from people who would have bought a general tow-path permit, but have zero intention of buying expensive ones for fixed location(s). I'm confident I will not be proved wrong on that point, at least!

[Jambo]

Ah ok will bow to your knowledge not sure if I like being classed as someone who does not move much but hey ho. I guess we all need to follow your fine example

 

Eh? Where'd you get that from?

 

I'm not suggesting that everyone who takes 5 months of WM is someone who doesn't move much. It's just that in certain areas it makes the challenges of living on a boat much, much smaller. This substantially lowers the bar to access, encouraging people who don't have the inclination to move much. All they have to do is pay a bit of money and they can stay in one place for nearly half of the year and the rest of the year they fire up the BBQ and life's a beach!

 

Note that I don't want cruising to become a chore just for the sake of keeping numbers down, but I think a reduction in the number of months WMs are in place would be reasonable given that the weather in November and March in the UK, while damp, usually isn't all that terrible (ignoring the issue of stoppages which might well have an impact).

[Tuscan]

"They will still have lost a lot of income though from people who would have bought a general tow-path permit, but have zero intention of buying expensive ones for fixed location(s). I'm confident I will not be proved wrong on that point, at least!"

 

As I mentioned above I understand the prices for the winter moorings should be around the same as last year , so not more expensive.

 

Edited to add that it was stated that income or potential loss of it was not a consideration

Edited July 7, 2015 by Tuscan

[cotswoldsman]

I think I give up!

 

!

I know how you feel.

 

It always amazes me how those who have never had a winter mooring seem to either know the most or have the most to say.

 

I exclude you from that Alan as I know you do have a good knowledge about how these work hence why maybe they did not wish to share this bit of secret information at your recent boaters meeting.

"They will still have lost a lot of income though from people who would have bought a general tow-path permit, but have zero intention of buying expensive ones for fixed location(s). I'm confident I will not be proved wrong on that point, at least!"

As I mentioned above I understand the prices for the winter moorings should be around the same as last year , so not more expensive.

Edited to add that it was stated that income or potential loss of it was not a consideration

Going by the now over 30 emails and loads of pms I have received plus the general posts on Facebook I know you are right. Maybe they just did not like the idea that a lot of CCers were able to stand up and say "I do contribute extra to CRT"

[matty40s]

 

Edited to add that it was stated that income or potential loss of it was not a consideration

 

CRT tries to find new ways to generate income.

 

It finds a very succesful one.

 

It feels that losing it is not a consideration.

[alan_fincher]

"They will still have lost a lot of income though from people who would have bought a general tow-path permit, but have zero intention of buying expensive ones for fixed location(s). I'm confident I will not be proved wrong on that point, at least!"

 

As I mentioned above I understand the prices for the winter moorings should be around the same as last year , so not more expensive.

 

Edited to add that it was stated that income or potential loss of it was not a consideration

 

Perhaps I misunderstood?

 

I assumed you meant "the prices for the winter moorings should be around the same as last year, for those charged for a fixed location", and if so those were very high, and a major deterrent for just booking a bit of muddy unserviced towpath.

 

My understanding was the cost of the general towpath permit was significantly less.

 

Do you mean they will be charging fixed locations at a similar level to that charged for the general permit?

 

Doesn't that fall foul of unfair competition with private operators who are still wanting to charge inflated prices?

[cotswoldsman]

CRT tries to find new ways to generate income.

 

It finds a very succesful one.

 

It feels that losing it is not a consideration.

From what I heard it was along the lines of the amount was insignificant. Now I might not be poor but over £300,000 is a fair bit of lose change, but then I do wonder sometimes if those within CRT understand the frustration of some when they see money being piss ed away. How many Bat Boxes can you buy with £300,000

[alan_fincher]

I exclude you from that Alan as I know you do have a good knowledge about how these work hence why maybe they did not wish to share this bit of secret information at your recent boaters meeting.

 

It was fairly obvious to me that this was going to be the outcome, and that those in the meeting knew this, but were firmly not allowed to say so. I don't think that was just because I was in the room, though!

 

It is a very disappointing result, on a number of levels, and has further shaken my faith in trying to work co-operatively with them.

 

All boaters will suffer, not just those who might have taken them, because CRT should be exploiting every avenue it can to gain extra revenue. It seems some things are more politically important than funding.

[cotswoldsman]

 

It was fairly obvious to me that this was going to be the outcome, and that those in the meeting knew this, but were firmly not allowed to say so. I don't think that was just because I was in the room, though!

 

It is a very disappointing result, on a number of levels, and has further shaken my faith in trying to work co-operatively with them.

 

All boaters will suffer, not just those who might have taken them, because CRT should be exploiting every avenue it can to gain extra revenue. It seems some things are more politically important than funding.

I am avoiding the political angle at present as I don't have the energy at present

[Steve_C]

The permit worked really well for us last year and we would have taken one again though with minimum inconvenience we can manage without. That leaves us with £350 to spend on a few p@@s ups this winter. Should we contact CRT to see if they can organise one in a brewery for us or are we best looking elsewhere?

[cotswoldsman]

The permit worked really well for us last year and we would have taken one again though with minimum inconvenience we can manage without. That leaves us with £350 to spend on a few p@@s ups this winter. Should we contact CRT to see if they can organise one in a brewery for us or are we best looking elsewhere?

As they have such a surplus of money I am sure they would be happy to take you for a piss up to celebrate that once again they have managed to piss off so many cc'ers as that is their agenda (oops said I was not going to do the politics)