battery age

[Suzie_q]

Stupid question time.

 

How long are batteries meant to last?Been told today at best three years before they need replacing.

 

Sorry mean domestic batteries as ours seem not to be lasting the night but all ok when we run the engine so am assuming charging is alright.

[Southern Star]

It can be as short as three years, but equally it can be double that. I'd imagine most boatyards would have a battery drop tester.

[Suzie_q]

Interestingly Sawley will only test them if there fully charged and off the boat. Is that normal?

[Southern Star]

They do have to be fully charged but I can't imagine why they would need them off of the boat?

[David Schweizer]

It all really depends on the quality of your batteries in the first place and how well you look after them. We have two 6v US125 (242 Ah) Deep Cycle Batteries, which are now more than ten years old and still performing well, the previous set lasted more than fourteen years.

 

They are not cheap, but are much better value long term. They cost me £170 (delivered) for the pair in 2005 and would set me back £288 (delivered) today, Probably only worth it if you plan to keep your boat for more than a few years.

 

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/US-125-Deep-Cycle-Monobloc-Battery-P4121.html

Edited June 28, 2015 by David Schweizer

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya,

It's certainly not a stupid question at all in my view. So keep asking away !.

I'm a full time livaboard, wit VERY high demands on my Battery bank, in short, I Hammer them.

I 'Had' 4x220A/hr Wet cell Batteries.mid range at about £500 for the 4 (with good Discount from Gillingham Marina in Kent)

My Batteries normally last approximately 2 years before I notice they are getting tired, then can normally squeeze another year out of them.

 

 

(I'm actually down to two batteries now, they are Currently 34 months old, They really needed replacing about 3 months ago,)

Edited June 28, 2015 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[bottle]

As to how long they last (age) is an open question, they could be scrap after only one month if not charged correctly or as some claim, last over ten years.

 

It all depends on usage (number of times discharged and to what level SOC) and how they are re-charged.

ps. to test domestics takes time it cannot be done by a 'drop test'

[Tony Brooks]

Suzie - not a stupid question if you do not know the answer. However the direct answer to your question is anything from a few weeks to 15 years or more - not exactly helpful.

 

The 15 years or more will almost certainly be 2 volt individual cells forming a large bank that costs four figures so is unlikely to apply to you so I will limit my reply to "typical" so called leisure batteries.

 

Batteries fail in the main for two reasons.

 

1. Running out of cyclic life (the number of charges & discharges). Eventually they will starts to shed internal materials that will one way or anther cause cells to short out. If you insist on discharging to sub 12 volts and never fully charging them then we are into a few weeks life.

 

2. Sulphation where batteries are never fully charged and the chemical reactions that take place when charging and discharging get sort of "stuck". This is where solar comes in because it gives very long charge periods at lowish current for no additional cost. Likewise shore line charging also keeps batteries fully charged. In both cases the chemical reactions do not get stuck.

 

Your batteries could be suffering from either problem or both. Typical wet open cell leisure batteries typically last between two and four years in typical use but livaboard boaters who do not take care of batteries may only get weeks of use.

 

Without knowing your charging voltages, charging method and charging times I can not even guess at what is wrong with your battery bank. If the ends have belled out then it is probably lack of capacity caused by sulphation. If individual cells are bubbling far more than others it is likely to be internal short circuiting. If you have sealed batteries then it is difficult for a boater to test. If they are open cells then you can tell a lot with a hydrometer and voltmeter.

 

Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear.

 

I would comment that the "drop tester" mentioned needs to be matched to the battery capacity and far too many are not, being designed for car use.

[larkshall]

Battery testing should be done at full charge. The bank should ideall be disconnected from both chargers, and isolated one from another. It's easier to get more accurate individual battery report that way. I'm not sure why you should remove the bank from the boat though?

Perhaps gas production during test, or maybe risk of cell boiling. It's a bit tedious though

[Tony Brooks]

It all really depends on the quality of your batteries in the first place and how well you look after them. We have two 6v US125 (242 Ah) Deep Cycle Batteries, which are now more than ten years old and still performing well, the previous set lasted more than fourteen years.

 

They are not cheap, but are much better value long term. They cost me £170 (delivered) for the pair in 2005 and would set me back £288 (delivered) today, Probably only worth it if you plan to keep your boat for more than a few years.

 

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/US-125-Deep-Cycle-Monobloc-Battery-P4121.html

 

 

But they are not better long term value if you destroy them by lack of charging and neglect in months or a couple of years.

[larkshall]

Battery testing should be done at full charge. The bank should ideall be disconnected from both chargers, and isolated one from another. It's easier to get more accurate individual battery report that way. I'm not sure why you should remove the bank from the boat though?

Perhaps gas production during test, or maybe risk of cell boiling. It's a bit tedious though

I use a commercial vehicle drop tester used by truckers. Domestic vehicle tester isn't at all matched for the amperage encountered

[Tony Brooks]

I use a commercial vehicle drop tester used by truckers. Domestic vehicle tester isn't at all matched for the amperage encountered

 

And such testers are calibrated in CCA while our batteries are in AH with no reliable conversion factor it gets even more difficult.

 

I agree with whoever said that proper deep cycle batteries should not be tested with a drop tester but the pseudo-starter battery type leisure types should be OK.

 

Edited to delete an erroneous "no"

Edited June 28, 2015 by Tony Brooks

[Arthur Brown]

Leisure batteries were never intended for starter use, so the load tester used for car batteries tells little that wasn't known.

 

Leisure batteries last exactly according to how you treat them, deep cycles and time left flat mean less life, moderate cycles and time spent on float (fully charged) means best achievable life. The longest noted life for a set of leisure batteries, recorded on this forum, was ten years, several people have had less than three months by leaving the batteries flat and unattended and uncharged.

 

There is some talk that a solar charging system of suitable size prolongs battery life, but so also does a suitable mains charging routine.

 

ed for spling

Edited June 28, 2015 by Arthur Brown

[bizzard]

I guess the boatyard won't test them on the boats because most are often located in ridiculously stupid and confined spaces, like under the after deck with only a couple or few inches clearance above them, which means fooling around getting bent up like the letter Z getting in there, trying to get the tops off, fooling about with a mirror, dipstick, trying to get a hydrometer or whatever tester in there. You can end up all distorted, broken, bruised, pins and needles, excruciating cramps, watery eyes, filthy, dizzy with hydrogen fumes, a burnt and bistered bum with crouching on the engine. To emerge completely disorientated, throwing up and with your clothes falling apart and disappearing off you with acid attack.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

So what's your point Biz !.

 

Lol

[Phil Ambrose]

I guess the boatyard won't test them on the boats because most are often located in ridiculously stupid and confined spaces, like under the after deck with only a couple or few inches clearance above them, which means fooling around getting bent up like the letter Z getting in there, trying to get the tops off, fooling about with a mirror, dipstick, trying to get a hydrometer or whatever tester in there. You can end up all distorted, broken, bruised, pins and needles, excruciating cramps, watery eyes, filthy, dizzy with hydrogen fumes, a burnt and bistered bum with crouching on the engine. To emerge completely disorientated, throwing up and with your clothes falling apart and disappearing off you with acid attack.

And that's on a good day.

Phil

[bizzard]

So what's your point Biz !.

 

Lol

It's the reason why most boatyards refuse to test batteries installed in boats.

[Tony Brooks]

Leisure batteries were never intended for starter use, so the load tester used for car batteries tells little that wasn't known.

 

Leisure batteries last exactly according to how you treat them, deep cycles and time left flat mean less life, moderate cycles and time spent on float (fully charged) means best achievable life. The longest noted life for a set of leisure batteries, recorded on this forum, was ten years, several people have had less than three months by leaving the batteries flat and unattended and uncharged.

 

There is some talk that a solar charging system of suitable size prolongs battery life, but so also does a suitable mains charging routine.

 

ed for spling

 

 

As Gibbo explained about the construction of all the modern "leisure" batteries he had taken apart, note the term leisure, they seem to be constructed in a similar way to starting batteries so a SUITABLY CALIBRATED load tester should not harm them and shoudl give fairly reliable results (providing the bank is fully charged).

 

True deep cycle batteries are a different matter.

 

As you say it is all in keeping the batteries as fully charged as possible by whatever means.

[bizzard]

And that's on a good day.

Phil

Indeed, Phil. And on a bad day, Ano Domini.

[Phil Ambrose]

Indeed, Phil. And on a bad day, Ano Domini.

Even Finito Benito

 

Phil

[John V]

I have 2 140Ah lead calciums that were supplied by Watermota with my engine. they are now about 14 years old and are somewhat reduced in capacity but are still quite happy at running the inverter (800W pure sine wave) that keeps my fridge and freezer running if shore power fails, supplies 24v for freshwater pump, waste pump and toilet (pump out) AND still have enough oomph to start the engine (8 litre 6 cyl) .......I know I probably should have changed them already but I can't help wondering how much longer they are going to keep going They are wired to a 10A multi stage charger which is on 80% of the time.......Gibbo reckoned that what ever I was doing they must like it and not to change anything.....so I haven't

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

If it ain't broke,,Don't fix it as the saying goes John,

 

 

 

(I will catchup with you later matey)

[David Schweizer]

Leisure batteries were never intended for starter use, so the load tester used for car batteries tells little that wasn't known.

 

Leisure batteries last exactly according to how you treat them, deep cycles and time left flat mean less life, moderate cycles and time spent on float (fully charged) means best achievable life. The longest noted life for a set of leisure batteries, recorded on this forum, was ten years, several people have had less than three months by leaving the batteries flat and unattended and uncharged.

 

There is some talk that a solar charging system of suitable s ze prolongs battery life, but so also does a suitable mains charging routine.

 

ed for spling

 

If you read post No.5 you will see that I indicated that my last set of 6v deep cycle batteries lasted more than 14 years. My present set are already ten years old and still hold a full charge several weeks (sometimes months), and rarely need topping up.

 

Edited :- because I have just realised you are presumably talking about standard leisure batteries, rather than proper Deep Cycle batteries.

But they are not better long term value if you destroy them by lack of charging and neglect in months or a couple of years.

 

Agreed, but I did say it depended on "how well you look after them" I never allow my batteries to fall below 12volts and al;ways make sure they are full charged before i leave the boat. I would suggest that is why they last so long, and represent better long term value.

Edited June 28, 2015 by David Schweizer

[Tony Brooks]

 

If you read post No.5 you will see that I indicated that my last set of 6v deep cycle batteries lasted more than 14 years. My present set are already ten years old and still hold a full charge several weeks (sometimes months), and rarely need topping up.

 

Edited :- because I have just realised you are presumably talking about standard leisure batteries, rather than proper Deep Cycle batteries.

 

Agreed, but I did say it depended on "how well you look after them" I never allow my batteries to fall below 12volts and al;ways make sure they are full charged before i leave the boat. I would suggest that is why they last so long, and represent better long term value.

 

I agree with that but the problem is only the user knows how they look after their batteries and looking back over scores of other threads we know many people do not know how to look after batteries so suffer a shorter life than they need to.

 

I doubt that anyone without a shoreline or very significant solar can ensure their batteries are FULLY charged before leaving the boat. The best one can do is nearly charged and leave the solar to top it up over the next few days. For livaboards it is even harder unless the have a shoreline and multi-stage charger.

 

Each individual boater needs to understand the options and limits and make a decision as to the best type of battery for them. I would never try to tell you that my Exide Leisure batteries are the most cost effective solution for you while I have doubts that your deep cycle batteries would be most cost effective for me.

[Suzie_q]

Thanks all. Without going into all the electrikery details it does confirm that the batteries are on the way out.

Bring on the credit card!!!!!!