Bristol to portishead. Is it necessary to have a pilot?

[Tony Dunkley]

...... and what would you do if the hanger-on got into difficulties (engine, waves coming aboard, etc.) while you were trying to keep to your strict schedule to arrive at Sharpness during the narrow window at slack water (which lasts about 15 minutes)?

 

.... taking into account that an anchor probably wouldn't hold in the Severn estuary where currents can be 6 knots or more.

 

How about looking at that another way . . . . . . what would you do if your engine lost power / stopped, or you were taking green water aboard . . . . . refuse a tow from the 'hanger on' if offered, or perhaps expect him to come to your assistance ?

[cotswoldsman]

Your point being what? That smoking doesn't kill? Number one cause of bladder cancer for starters!

Was not making a point just stating fact in line with the 90 yo Granny hope that was ok not to do it with making a point

 

How about looking at that another way . . . . . . what would you do if your engine lost power / stopped, or you were taking green water aboard . . . . . refuse a tow from the 'hanger on' if offered, or perhaps expect him to come to your assistance ?

Hey Tony good to see you back

[tagulablue]

If the pilot agrees to take two boats... then it is arranged in advance .... both boat details are discussed (engine size etc) / forms of communication are established between both boats. I did not object to sharing the pilot (he could have just paid the extra cost and that would have been fine) but it was the manor in which he just sailed up to the side hatched ...banged on the side ...(Ps it was a narrowboat with a dingy in tow that wanted to follow us) and TOLD us what he was going to do! It's unfair on all concerned. Basically, it's using the pilot's expertise and knowledge of the waters and not paying him!

[mark99]

If the pilot agrees to take two boats... then it is arranged in advance .... both boat details are discussed (engine size etc) / forms of communication are established between both boats. I did not object to sharing the pilot (he could have just paid the extra cost and that would have been fine) but it was the manor in which he just sailed up to the side hatched ...banged on the side ...(Ps it was a narrowboat with a dingy in tow that wanted to follow us) and TOLD us what he was going to do! It's unfair on all concerned. Basically, it's using the pilot's expertise and knowledge of the waters and not paying him!

 

Sounds like a chancer. I would have enjoyed steaming as hard as I could away from him. There are too many people on this forum who think it's a utopia out there and everyone deserves a break rather than paying their way and taking responsibility for their situation.

[frangar]

Sounds like a chancer. I would have enjoyed steaming as hard as I could away from him. There are too many people on this forum who think it's a utopia out there and everyone deserves a break rather than paying their way and taking responsibility for their situation.

Indeed.....I've offered help where appropriate....often when it's not been asked by the other party.....but I'm less than keen on people who expect it as a right.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[cotswoldsman]

 

Sounds like a chancer. I would have enjoyed steaming as hard as I could away from him. There are too many people on this forum who think it's a utopia out there and everyone deserves a break rather than paying their way and taking responsibility for their situation.

Then there are some who are happy to help other boaters where they can. But hey you carry on with your "i'm alright Jack, screw everyone else" attitude

[mark99]

Then there are some who are happy to help other boaters where they can. But hey you carry on with your "i'm alright Jack, screw everyone else" attitude

 

There's a difference here, I would help anyone in distress or in need but would not go out of my way to those that pre-demand it. You carry on bearing the self righteous, holier than thou flag; that's ok with me.

Edited June 14, 2015 by mark99

[cotswoldsman]

 

You carry on bearing the self righteous, holier than thou flag; that's ok with me.

Thank you Sir, so pleased I can do with your permission and approval

[frangar]

Then there are some who are happy to help other boaters where they can. But hey you carry on with your "i'm alright Jack, screw everyone else" attitude

Some of us also help people without having to tell everyone that we have done so...from a small thing like pulling a paddle for a following boat to being able to help make an engine repair or offer a tow.....however there are those who expect everything while giving nothing.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Murflynn]

 

Thank you Sir, so pleased I can do with your permission and approval

your avatar certainly matches your pomposity.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Murflynn

[Tony Dunkley]

The pilots get pee'd off with hangers on. We had booked pilots for both legs and whilst we were waiting overnight in Bristol this guy in a dinghy knocked on the side hatched and said he had been told we were going to Portishead with pilot and he would follow us. No offer of sharing cost or anything. Stupid as usual I didn't tell him to get lost but the more I thought about it the more I got uptight at his nerve. When we met the pilot next morning I told him what had happened and he laughed at said how fast does this engine go.... and we lost him within minutes. the pilots are self employed and are happy to have a couple of boats in convoy but set up lines of communication and charge a little bit more for the responsibility.

 

I don't really understand why you took such exception to another boat telling you that they intended to follow you down the Avon and up the Severn . . . . . unless, of course, you had booked and paid for the exclusive use of both rivers on the next day.

Would you have been less offended if the chap in the dinghy had offered to time his departure from Bristol so as not to coincide with yours, and to increase the chances of getting himself into difficulties ?

[Tony Dunkley]

So if no one can afford it you don't get a pilot!....there is a world of difference about organising a convoy of boats and sharing a pilot to having someone follow you and your pilot without wanting to share costs etc....if they won't pay for a pilot what else have they scrimped on in prepping for the trip?....should you then put yourself and your boat in danger to help them if they get into difficulties?

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

Presumably, when referring to scrimping on preparation for a trip, you are suggesting that any boat without a pilot may be more likely to break down on passage.

I didn't realize until now that engines / fuel systems etc. can be made more reliable by carrying a pilot, I do know, however, that the smug and self-righteous are sometimes taught some serious lessons in humility by inanimate and mechanical objects.

[Giant]

The tides on the Severn are a force to be reckoned with.

 

I came into Sharpness on a tall ship last summer, on a monster of a tide - over 10m of it. Holding station abeam the lock entrance, with the engine at cruise power and the tide still coming in at some knots, I looked at my watch and realised it was less than five minutes before high water.

 

There were two large commercial ships coming in on the same tide too. Very little margin for anyone involved to cock things up.

 

Consider carefully what the height of tide will be when you make your trip.

[cotswoldsman]

The tides on the Severn are a force to be reckoned with.

 

I came into Sharpness on a tall ship last summer, on a monster of a tide - over 10m of it. Holding station abeam the lock entrance, with the engine at cruise power and the tide still coming in at some knots, I looked at my watch and realised it was less than five minutes before high water.

 

There were two large commercial ships coming in on the same tide too. Very little margin for anyone involved to cock things up.

 

Consider carefully what the height of tide will be when you make your trip.

That is one of the advantages of taking a pilot the first time I did the trip I had to wait 5 days before the pilot was happy to go even though during that time other vessels were coming and going including not very large plastic boats. I work on the theory that the pilot also wants as little hassle as possible

[Dave Clinton]

 

I don't really understand why you took such exception to another boat telling you that they intended to follow you down the Avon and up the Severn . . . . . unless, of course, you had booked and paid for the exclusive use of both rivers on the next day.

Would you have been less offended if the chap in the dinghy had offered to time his departure from Bristol so as not to coincide with yours, and to increase the chances of getting himself into difficulties ?

it's absolutely crazy this FOAD mentality. On a passage down a tidal river it's simple common sense to notify other boats making the passage of your intentions.

 

somehow the muddy ditch dwellers have the mindset they'd rather someone drowns than it offends their ( stupid, erroneous) sense of 'something for nothing'.

 

Are we asked to believe by this selfish prat that the other boat wouldn't make the passage if he wasn't there with a pilot?

 

if he got in difficulty would he have refused assistance from that boat?

[Scholar Gypsy]

I think there is a difference here between, on the part of the "follower":

 

i) telling other boats what you are doing, so everyone knows name and destination of other boats. Obviously boats should/must/will help each other out if one gets into difficulties, and they can assist without putting their own vessel at undue risk.

 

ii) expecting another boat to form a convoy with you, with no prior discussion - ie expecting the group to go at the same speed and keep close together - not as easy as it sounds - with all following the instructions and guidance of the pilot.

 

I think the former is fine, the latter is less so.

[starman]

 

Presumably, when referring to scrimping on preparation for a trip, you are suggesting that any boat without a pilot may be more likely to break down on passage.

I didn't realize until now that engines / fuel systems etc. can be made more reliable by carrying a pilot, I do know, however, that the smug and self-righteous are sometimes taught some serious lessons in humility by inanimate and mechanical objects.

I'm not passing and judgement on your comments this is just a small story told me by our Sharpness pilot to illustrate the value of having one on board in time of mechanical problems.

On a trip last year with a young couple and her dad on a boat they assured him was checked and ok they turned out of Sharpness ready to routinely punch the tide for 20 mins down the estuary - and the engine immediately cut out!

While they stared in wide eyed panic he tried to restart, failed then ordered them inside and to hold on knowing it would be pushed broadside hard against the jetty.

He then supervised getting the girl and dad up the jetty and off while he and the owner fended it off to ensure it didn't snag as the tide rose.

 

It's all eminently sensible - in theory but not necessarily in panicky reality.

[Dave Clinton]

to achieve the latter we must postulate that the 'follower' was hanging around for days waiting for a boat with a pilot. Seems a little unlikely, especially as it has been said he didn't ask to share the pilot simply notifying the other boat he would be following.

 

Another thing occurs to me; supposed our selfish ditch dweller above had proposed sharing the ( cost of the) pilot, what is the situation if the 2nd boat gets in difficulties ? is the pilot then responsible for the safety of that boat? does he use the first boat to affect a rescue?

I think there is a difference here between, on the part of the "follower":

 

i) telling other boats what you are doing, so everyone knows name and destination of other boats. Obviously boats should/must/will help each other out if one gets into difficulties, and they can assist without putting their own vessel at undue risk.

 

ii) expecting another boat to form a convoy with you, with no prior discussion - ie expecting the group to go at the same speed and keep close together - not as easy as it sounds - with all following the instructions and guidance of the pilot.

 

I think the former is fine, the latter is less so.

[Tony Dunkley]

I'm not passing and judgement on your comments this is just a small story told me by our Sharpness pilot to illustrate the value of having one on board in time of mechanical problems.

On a trip last year with a young couple and her dad on a boat they assured him was checked and ok they turned out of Sharpness ready to routinely punch the tide for 20 mins down the estuary - and the engine immediately cut out!

While they stared in wide eyed panic he tried to restart, failed then ordered them inside and to hold on knowing it would be pushed broadside hard against the jetty.

He then supervised getting the girl and dad up the jetty and off while he and the owner fended it off to ensure it didn't snag as the tide rose.

 

It's all eminently sensible - in theory but not necessarily in panicky reality.

 

I go along with everything you say, but I think that both the people on the boat concerned, and the pilot, may well have been thankful at the time for the presence of a 'hanger on' with an engine that hadn't conked out.

[homer2911]

I think there is a difference here between, on the part of the "follower":

 

i) telling other boats what you are doing, so everyone knows name and destination of other boats. Obviously boats should/must/will help each other out if one gets into difficulties, and they can assist without putting their own vessel at undue risk.

 

ii) expecting another boat to form a convoy with you, with no prior discussion - ie expecting the group to go at the same speed and keep close together - not as easy as it sounds - with all following the instructions and guidance of the pilot.

 

I think the former is fine, the latter is less so.

 

From the Gloucester Pilots' website:

 

As with commercial vessels our contract of employment is with the ‘master’ of the craft that employs us. It is very difficult to offer advice to a vessel which is more than a few metres away. On open water, such as the Severn, craft very quickly drift apart so we will not agree to take convoys of craft. Experience has shown that convoyed boats can stray into areas of water which are dangerous. We, as pilots are unable to assess the manoeuvrability of an individual boat or the competency of the skipper unless we are actually on board. There are sections of the passage where the boat navigates in fast moving water and requires the helmsman to respond immediately to a situation. Any craft following another with a pilot on board is not legally a ‘piloted vessel’ and thus we cannot take responsibility for its safety.

 

Just a small point, when we booked our pilot, he chatted for quite a while about engine reliability/safety/equipment issues, I suppose to satisfy himself that we had taken all the necessary precautions.

Edited June 15, 2015 by homer2911

[Peter Reg]

Hello everyone, I left Bristol early morning monday, after a lot of research of maps of the avonmouth and talking to other boaters and the harbour masters, made it to Portishead ok, what a wonderful journey, yesterday evening I had a pilot booked to go to Sharpness, also there was another boat there waiting to go but he phoned at the last minute saying he had to take a commercial ship and said if you talk to the pilot of the other boat, you could follow them! It's your call,,, he said,! I didn't think that's a good idea, so now I'm leaving tomorrow, lock out at 05:30 with a pilot... Looking forward to this wonderful journey up the river seven to Shapness.. ( it is in fact quite scary)?

Hello everyone, I left Bristol early morning monday, after a lot of research of maps of the avonmouth and talking to other boaters and the harbour masters, made it to Portishead ok, what a wonderful journey, yesterday evening I had a pilot booked to go to Sharpness, also there was another boat there waiting to go but he phoned at the last minute saying he had to take a commercial ship and said if you talk to the pilot of the other boat, you could follow them! It's your call,,, he said,! I didn't think that's a good idea, so now I'm leaving tomorrow, lock out at 05:30 with a pilot... Looking forward to this wonderful journey up the river seven to Shapness.. ( it is in fact quite scary)

But exciting

[homer2911]

Have fun - you will enjoy it!

[Peter Reg]

Have fun - you will enjoy it!

Thanks homer2911

From portishead looking up the seven at the two bridges in the long distance and the flow of the tide coming in and out, !!! This will be a One time experience for me on a narrowboat...!

[homer2911]

Thanks homer2911

From portishead looking up the seven at the two bridges in the long distance and the flow of the tide coming in and out, !!! This will be a One time experience for me on a narrowboat...!

It helps if there is a following boat taking pics of you - this is us!