What would you want your CRT governing council reps to stand for?

[jenlyn]

A link would be good. What words did you type into Google to get the improved description? I've only got my dodgy phone here!

I know sorry. Am in same position, only on phone and slow web.

[alan_fincher]

Here are a couple of links for those interested

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/7833.pdf

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/about-us/governance/the-council/could-you-get-involved-in-the-trust-council-election-2015

 

https://secure2.votebyinternet.com/V2-3-2/%28S%28233fdb33-65d0-4412-84cc-f19a7104e70fAMIHg0AAAAAAAA=3HbRvmmJpuwCyEVrDXV%29%29/CRTelections2015/en/Home?bbp=26556&x=-1

 

Have a read.

 

Well I have tried all those,((and a few others), but unless I'm missing something, I can't fond anything that gives a "job spec" for what they see the Boater Representative role as being.

 

Can anyone find a direct link to such information, please?

[mango]

 

Well I have tried all those,((and a few others), but unless I'm missing something, I can't fond anything that gives a "job spec" for what they see the Boater Representative role as being.

 

Can anyone find a direct link to such information, please?

 

There is not a specific job spec. From the Election FAQs:

 

 

COUNCIL – CONDUCT OF BUSINESS, RESPONSIBILITIES, MEMBERSHIP

HOW OFTEN DOES COUNCIL MEET?

Two times a year but there may be other Committee work.

WHERE WILL COUNCIL MEET?

Meetings will be located at major centres for ease of rail travel. The Council has met in Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Dudley, Cardiff, and London.

WHAT WILL BE THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF A COUNCIL MEMBER? HOW MUCH WORK WILL IT INVOLVE?

The Council is responsible for appointing and has the power to dismiss Trustees. While Trustees are responsible for determining policy and strategy, Council will have an important role in helping to shape policy, raising and debating issues, providing guidance, perspective and be a sounding board for Trustees.

You must be prepared to read papers in advance of meetings, to think about their content, as well as keep in touch generally with developments and issues arising within the world of waterways. You may want to spend some time between meetings gathering the views of people within your constituency to form a representative view and raise any questions. The most effective Council members will therefore be well- networked as well as able and willing to devote time and effort to become well-informed and be ready to contribute to Council meetings.

 

As with the regional Waterway Partnerships, Council Members will be working with others with a diverse range of interests and expertise.

Edited June 3, 2015 by mango

[alan_fincher]

Yes, but I think that is more or less verbatim what was said last time around.

 

Although it makes reference to a "constituency" and "gathering views", it seems to make this an optional activity! The implication is very much that you can ask for views if you want to, but are not obliged, and that it it is largely one way activity.

 

This is very different from you as a representative making yourself fully accessible to all, and letting them know what business council is currently involved in, so that they can approach you in their own right, if they wish to do so - something the current incumbents appear to have made no effort to do

 

To seriously be a "representative" my view is that you have to make some considerable effort to know that what you are carrying forward reflects the views of your constituency. If you never engage with them in large numbers, you risk just putting forward your own view of the world, assuming that is what benefits boaters in general, and that you know best. As some of the currently elected "representatives" have shown themselves willing to pontificate a load of drivel about things they clearly have no real knowledge of, they are in my view not actually "representing", and are actually working against what many of us want.

[bassplayer]

So is there any relationship between this council and keeping the infrastructure gong? Or is it just a self perpetuating constitution?

[larkshall]

As has been announced in the recent press release (forum post here), CRT are soon to be holding their elections for the next four boater's reps on the governing council.

So my question is, what would you want your reps to say, do or prioritise, should they gain a seat?

What would win your vote, or what policies would you support?

Go!

Starry, your opening a real can of worms here. John (cotswoldman) went into this a couple of years ago, if anyone cares to do a search back, something I can't do at the moment. (I keep getting messages about database errors). We all know he has other things on his mind. I think you should examine the role of the council members. If memory serves its very different from the role we assume.

[jenlyn]

To put it simply, the council is in place to satisfy government stipulation. Nothing more, nothing less. It has no real mandate, and is more than likely seen by CRT as just something it needs to have.

[bassplayer]

To put it simply, the council is in place to satisfy government stipulation. Nothing more, nothing less. It has no real mandate, and is more than likely seen by CRT as just something it needs to have.

What like a tick in a box? Sounds familiar...

[jenlyn]

Exactly, a tick in a box.

I was naive enough last time to think, get someone in with strength and commitment, and we would all have a voice. Having met a fair few of the ones in place at the moment, I recognise this will never happen.

Once in amongst them, you will soon be wearing the same hat.

[bassplayer]

 

Once in amongst them, you will soon be wearing the same hat.

From what I understand, the same thing happens to many of those pursuing a career including politics. It's happened to a few 'successful' people I know.

[jenlyn]

From what I understand, the same thing happens to many of those pursuing a career including politics. It's happened to a few 'successful' people I know.

Very true.

[alan_fincher]

Once in amongst them, you will soon be wearing the same hat.

 

That's the only bit I don't agree with.

 

You might find yourself unable to achieve much, because nobody else actually wants attitudes to change, but that doesn't mean you have to change and become one of them.

 

The reality though, is that I think it is rather academic, because with nothing really having changed substantively from the way it operated last time, I think it would be equally difficult for a genuine "independent" who still thought they might achieved something useful to actually gain enough support to find themselves elected.

 

The one thing that might alter that is how the IWA decide to react to the fact that they now get one automatic nominated place on Council, not linked to the "Boater Representative" role. What will they decide to do this time about the latter? Frankly if they again put up a slate of candidates, and actively back them, then the result is unlikely to be very different. However good a case "Joe Smith, independent candidate" is able to put forward, he is going to struggle to get enough people on board, particularly as the campaign will again be run at a time when the vast majority of the electorate probably don't go near their boats or the canals. People are far more likely to say "ah, so he is an IWA trustee, and [say] branch chairman, so must be a safer bet than Joe Smith, about who I know nothing more than his 150 word election statement". They are unlikely in many cases to know of some of the poisonous, divisive and invariably inaccurate stuff the IWA people actually spout, because unlike some of us, they will be unaware of how they actually behave in reality.

 

Sorry - that all sounds a bit negative and depressing, but I fear it will be the reality, and can't see how you change that.

 

[EDITED: To change one word to better reflect the point I'm trying to make.]

Edited June 4, 2015 by alan_fincher

[cotswoldsman]

Yes, but I think that is more or less verbatim what was said last time around.

 

Although it makes reference to a "constituency" and "gathering views", it seems to make this an optional activity! The implication is very much that you can ask for views if you want to, but are not obliged, and that it it is largely one way activity.

 

This is very different from you as a representative making yourself fully accessible to all, and letting them know what business council is currently involved in, so that they can approach you in their own right, if they wish to do so - something the current incumbents appear to have made no effort to do

 

To seriously be a "representative" my view is that you have to make some considerable effort to know that what you are carrying forward reflects the views of your constituency. If you never engage with them in large numbers, you risk just putting forward your own view of the world, assuming that is what benefits boaters in general, and that you know best. As some of the currently elected "representatives" have shown themselves willing to pontificate a load of drivel about things they clearly have no real knowledge of, they are in my view not actually "representing", and are actually working against what many of us want.

Ok so tell me what sort of issues I can go to the boaters rep about where he/she is able to do something and make a difference.

 

That's the only bit I don't agree with.

 

You might find yourself unable to achieve much, because nobody else actually wants attitudes to change, but that doesn't mean you have to change and become one of them.

 

The reality though, is that I think it is rather academic, because with nothing really having changed substantively from the way it operated last time, I think it would be equally difficult for a genuine "independent" who still thought they might achieved something useful to actually gain enough support to find themselves elected.

 

The one thing that might alter that is how the IWA decide to react to the fact that they now get one automatic nominated place on Council, not linked to the "Boater Representative" role. What will they decide to do this time about the latter? Frankly if they again put up a slate of candidates, and actively back them, then the result is unlikely to be very different. However good a case "Joe Smith, independent candidate" is able to put forward, he is going to struggle to get enough people on board, particularly as the campaign will again be run at a time when the vast majority of the electorate probably don't go near their boats or the canals. People are far more likely to say "ah, so he is an IWA trustee, and [say] branch chairman, so must be a safer bet than Joe Smith, about who I know nothing more than his 150 word election statement". They are unlikely in many cases to know of some of the poisonous, divisive and invariably inaccurate stuff the IWA people actually spout, because unlike some of us, they will be unaware of how they actually behave in reality.

 

Sorry - that all sounds a bit negative and depressing, but I fear it will be the reality, and can't see how you change that.

 

[EDITED: To change one word to better reflect the point I'm trying to make.]

Sorry I am really having difficulty here what is it within the remit of the council the rep is able to change?

[bassplayer]

Ok so tell me what sort of issues I can go to the boaters rep about where he/she is able to do something and make a difference.

 

Sorry I am really having difficulty here what is it within the remit of the council the rep is able to change?

I suppose it depends whether they drink with the right person. Mind you that's probably how it's worked for centuries...'democracy' is often an illusion to keep the masses happy.

[cotswoldsman]

Double post

Edited June 4, 2015 by cotswoldsman

[cotswoldsman]

I suppose it depends whether they drink with the right person. Mind you that's probably how it's worked for centuries...'democracy' is often an illusion to keep the masses happy.

In that case there are plenty of options without going to some council member bloody hell they only meet twice a year and with over 40 members hardly time to say anything once you deduct the time for the Power Point presentation

[mango]

Maybe these meetings offer the opportunity to work together with other representatives to explore ways of:

 

- raising additional funding via collaborative projects

- broadening volunteer activities

- recruiting more 'Friends' among all sectors of users

- looking at how multi-user conflict can be addressed in a positive way

 

It would be helpful if CRT provided more information about the role of Council

[cotswoldsman]

Maybe these meetings offer the opportunity to work together with other representatives to explore ways of:

 

- raising additional funding via collaborative projects

- broadening volunteer activities

- recruiting more 'Friends' among all sectors of users

- looking at how multi-user conflict can be addressed in a positive way

 

It would be helpful if CRT provided more information about the role of Council

I think that covers a lot of what the Waterways Partnerships are supposed to do and they do have 13 seats on Council

[mango]

I think that covers a lot of what the Waterways Partnerships are supposed to do and they do have 13 seats on Council

I don't disagree. As Tony Hales points out, boaters are the biggest group represented, so perhaps boaters could explore ways of bringing in more funding and encourage the Waterway Partnership reps to do the same. Boaters have a lot to gain from better funding.

[bassplayer]

I don't disagree. As Tony Hales points out, boaters are the biggest group represented, so perhaps boaters could explore ways of bringing in more funding and encourage the Waterway Partnership reps to do the same. Boaters have a lot to gain from better funding.

I thought we did bring in one of the largest proportions of funding. BTW the boater representation on that council is nowhere near what it should be given the amount of funding which is generated by boaters.

 

...and are boaters getting back what they are putting in?

[mango]

I thought we did bring in one of the largest proportions of funding. BTW the boater representation on that council is nowhere near what it should be given the amount of funding which is generated by boaters.

 

...and are boaters getting back what they are putting in?

Income is documented and John Dodwell has discussed the various income streams at talks, the transcripts of have been published or at least circulated widely. I have not seen figures for the cost (including staff time and other resources) of supporting boaters and I would not like the job of trying to work out to what extent boaters and other users benefit from different forms of expenditure.

[Tuscan]

rather than look for a job description would look at the minutes of the recent meetings and ask myself if I attended every 6 months would I have been able to make a difference. If the answer is yes go for it.

[bassplayer]

Income is documented and John Dodwell has discussed the various income streams at talks, the transcripts of have been published or at least circulated widely. I have not seen figures for the cost (including staff time and other resources) of supporting boaters and I would not like the job of trying to work out to what extent boaters and other users benefit from different forms of expenditure.

Yes, I've seen the published pie charts and my post still stands. What a lame response.

[alan_fincher]

rather than look for a job description would look at the minutes of the recent meetings and ask myself if I attended every 6 months would I have been able to make a difference. If the answer is yes go for it.

The problem can be that CRT minutes, (or as they seem often to insist calling them meeting notes), for at least some of their meetings can be very scant, and it seems there is almost a deliberate intent sometime to make them look like there was total consensus, even though there was a robust debate in the actual meeting, with objections could have been recorded.

 

I have repeatedly challenged the scantness (and on occasions the accuracy) of meeting notes relating to the South East Partnership Boating Subgroup, and not always been successful in getting them updated to reflect my objection to specific items which the rest of the group have unfortunately been happy to rubber stamp. However I found it interesting that when the person who now chairs missed a meeting she said she was not able to work out from the meeting notes what had been covered - that tells me they are not detailed enough to justify to those outside the group what it is actually involved in.

 

The meeting notes from this Subgroup still do not fully reflect my contribution to it, and particularly where I believe I have successfully opposed something for which I can see no evidence that it needs to happen. If I genuinely felt I had no influence I would by now have stepped down, but at the moment I still feel I have a role in trying to give some balance to a meeting where the spread of those attending hardly reflects the make up of the whole boating community.

 

Obviously I can't know how much Council meeting notes accurately reflect the input of all those on Council, but I would not be at all surprised if there were people on Council who are participating far more in the meetings than the notes might actually reflect.

[cotswoldsman]

rather than look for a job description would look at the minutes of the recent meetings and ask myself if I attended every 6 months would I have been able to make a difference. If the answer is yes go for it.

I am always left wondering how much each of these meetings cost in expenses claims for so many people to sit down and achieve nothing